Another State Legalizes gay Marriage

[Strike For The South]

Sodomy is abominable full stop. Don't give people tax cuts for it.

So are many other things. There really isnt even a christian basis for the discrimination of homosexuals anyway.

[Koga No Goshi]

That's just because you are inventing categories of people. For example saying that people are born homosexual or heterosexual, and have no choice in the matter. In reality, homosexuals just choose to commit particularly vile acts, it doesn't make them special and eligible for tax cuts as normal couples would.

Some people happen to make sodomy a way of life, either because they really embrace it or because gay activists tell them that they must because its who they are. They do not deserve privileges for this.

Um, no. You do realize straight people participate in this same "vile behavior", correct? It doesn't change which gender they are attracted to.

[Ser Clegane]

Sodomy is abominable full stop. Don't give people tax cuts for it.

Should heterosexual couples that practice sodomy (this would in absolute numbers well be more than homosexual couples) also be exempt from tax cuts?
Any other sexual activities that would make you forfeit your tax cuts?

[Koga No Goshi]

Should heterosexual couples that practice sodomy (this would in absolute numbers well be more than homosexual couples) also exempt from tax cuts?
Any other sexual activities that would make you forfeit your tax cuts?

Judging others is also a vile sin in the Bible. Never stopped a good Christian though.

[Strike For The South]

Judging others is also a vile sin in the Bible. Never stopped a good Christian though.

It doesn't seem it stopped a good liberal either

[Lemur]

Should heterosexual couples that practice sodomy (this would in absolute numbers well be more than homosexual couples) also be exempt from tax cuts?

I seem to remember a guy being sent to prison after it was proved in a court of law that he used his mouth on his wife's genitals ... oh, here it is.

Hard-time convicts in the prison yard derive no end of fun comparing their particular crimes to the transgression that landed James David Moseley behind bars 17 months ago.

Moseley, in the midst of a five-year sentence at a state prison outside Atlanta, is doing time for committing oral sex. With his wife.

"The other prisoners, some of them murderers and such, burst out laughing," said Clive Stafford-Smith of the Southern Prisoners Defense Committee. "Jim is bemused himself. Here he is languishing in jail for a crime that millions of Americans commit daily. Or perhaps nightly." Moseley, 34, a carpenter from the Atlanta suburb of Jonesboro, was convicted under Georgia's 156-year-old sodomy statute last year after admitting in court that he had had oral sex with his estranged wife, Bette Roberts.

[Ser Clegane]

I seem to remember a guy being sent to prison after it was proved in a court of law that he used his mouth on his wife's genitals

Did he also lose his tax cuts?

[Koga No Goshi]

It doesn't seem it stopped a good liberal either

Hey, I'm not the one using my archaic Middle Eastern moral code as a justification for denying people equal rights. :D

P.S. there are plenty of Christian liberals.

[Rhyfelwyr]

OK lets not get technical on the definitions of Sodomy. We all know what its widely used for, look for example at Ian Paisleys "Save Ulster From Sodomy" campaign.

I suppose the problem here is I see homosexuality as an act some people commit for whatever reason, others here see it as the defining aspect of those who engage in it.

Because if you acknowledge it as an act which any person can choose to commit, then you can't claim people are being unfairly discriminated against.

[Kadagar_AV]

Rhyfelwyr, I hope you are joking...

I find it sad to see that western culture and tolerance has not come further. I wish I can blame teh school system, but obviolsy you have been thought, you just refused to listen.

A person refusing to learn is called, a what?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Tolerate people, whether they are of a different race, culture, religion etc.

Don't tolerate the sins which people choose to commit.

[Koga No Goshi]

OK lets not get technical on the definitions of Sodomy. We all know what its widely used for, look for example at Ian Paisleys "Save Ulster From Sodomy" campaign.

I suppose the problem here is I see homosexuality as an act some people commit for whatever reason, others here see it as the defining aspect of those who engage in it.

Because if you acknowledge it as an act which any person can choose to commit, then you can't claim people are being unfairly discriminated against.

Wait so... if we can prove a couple had sex before their wedding date, they should not get any rights either?

This is a clumsy, bumbling argument trying feebly to straw-grasp any justification to attack a group you feel is "vile" and sinful. Even though existing legal privileges for married couples extends to an awful lot of sinners.

[Strike For The South]

Tolerate people, whether they are of a different race, culture, religion etc.

Don't tolerate the sins which people choose to commit.

We all commit sins and they are for the most part tolerated! Not to mention separation of church and state! I would actually like to debate modern theology with you and scriptures impact on the modern world. Most people here are very entrenched in there ivory towers when it comes to the jesus.

[Kadagar_AV]

Rhyfelwyr, and you do not accept that people ahve other beliefs than you?

I mean, when you talk about sin, you expect other people to follow your version of the christian belief, no?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Wait so... if we can prove a couple had sex before their wedding date, they should not get any rights either?

This is a clumsy, bumbling argument trying feebly to straw-grasp any justification to attack a group you feel is "vile" and sinful. Even though existing legal privileges for married couples extends to an awful lot of sinners.

But my point is there is no group! Homosexuals acts are no more than what they are - acts. It just so happens that some of the people who commit these acts choose to make them the defining features of their personality, because increasingly that's what gay activists are trying to make them think.

I don't like arguing on legal technicalities, that's why I'm avoiding the 'toaster argument'.

We all commit sins and they are for the most part tolerated! Not to mention separation of church and state! I would actually like to debate modern theology with you and scriptures impact on the modern world. Most people here are very entrenched in there ivory towers when it comes to the jesus.

Sins should not be tolerated. I don't know exactly what you mean by 'tolerated' though. If you mean should sins go unpunished, well then technically on this earth the answer would be yes I would think. God forgives us for our sins when we ask Him to, He will give forgiveness to those who commit homosexual acts just as for any other act. Sin is sin is sin. I'm not suggesting the death penalty for sodomy as in Iran, just as I wouldn't kill someone if they told a lie or stole something. Its purely for practical reasons we have to lock some sinners up, notably those who pose a threat to public safety.

But if you mean tolerate as in regard as morally acceptable, then I will never tolerate homosexual acts. The reason for the Christian outcry against homosexuality in particular is that, unlike with other sins, modern society is increasingly coming to accept it. And that is a frightening thought, indeed 'homosexuals' are already accepted into the clergy in Canada and the Anglican Church looks to implement them, its a sign of the end times as far as I'm concerned.

Rhyfelwyr, and you do not accept that people ahve other beliefs than you?

I mean, when you talk about sin, you expect other people to follow your version of the christian belief, no?

Well not specifically my beliefs. But mainstream Christian beliefs, yes.

[Kadagar_AV]

How come you feel the need to force your beliefs upon others?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Judging others is also a vile sin in the Bible. Never stopped a good Christian though.

I'm pretty sure that he was talking about stoning people to death in the street.

I'm also pretty sure that I'm not getting married to a gay man, so that plank isn't in my eye. Therefore I'm free to help my brothers pull the planks out of their "eyes".

Are we not supposed to judge politicians before election day? What about judging president Bush for invading Iraq?

Liberals arn't judgemental at all... Hey, why don't you pull the log out of your own brown eye?

"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30)"

[Strike For The South]

Sins should not be tolerated. I don't know exactly what you mean by 'tolerated' though. If you mean should sins go unpunished, well then technically on this earth the answer would be yes I would think. God forgives us for our sins when we ask Him to, He will give forgiveness to those who commit homosexual acts just as for any other act. Sin is sin is sin. I'm not suggesting the death penalty for sodomy as in Iran, just as I wouldn't kill someone if they told a lie or stole something. Its purely for practical reasons we have to lock some sinners up, notably those who pose a threat to public safety.

But if you mean tolerate as in regard as morally acceptable, then I will never tolerate homosexual acts. The reason for the Christian outcry against homosexuality in particular is that, unlike with other sins, modern society is increasingly coming to accept it. And that is a frightening thought, indeed 'homosexuals' are already accepted into the clergy in Canada and the Anglican Church looks to implement them, its a sign of the end times as far as I'm concerned.
.

Well yes. You make it seem like clergyman don't sin well they do! The end times? I didnt know they still made people like you in Britain "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" How are you going to completely condemn an act that has no effect on you and poses no threat to public safety?

[Koga No Goshi]

But my point is there is no group! Homosexuals acts are no more than what they are - acts. It just so happens that some of the people who commit these acts choose to make them the defining features of their personality, because increasingly that's what gay activists are trying to make them think.

I don't like arguing on legal technicalities, that's why I'm avoiding the 'toaster argument'.

Where do you get this crap? Gay people are just addicted to a specific form of sex, and form it into a personality because gay activists brainwash them to? What, do you think all gay kids go to gay boot camp at age 12 and emerge at age 18? Almost all gay kids are raised by straight, frequently Christian parents. So where is this activist brainwashing stepping in and taking over?

[Koga No Goshi]

I'm pretty sure that he was talking about stoning people to death in the street.

I'm also pretty sure that I'm not getting married to a gay man, so that plank isn't in my eye. Therefore I'm free to help my brothers pull the planks out of their "eyes".

Are we not supposed the judge politicians before election day? What about judging president Bush for invading Iraq?

Liberals arn't judgemental at all... Hey, why don't you pull the log out of your own brown eye?

"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30)"

I'm surprised when I hear Christians so intentionally abuse the teachings of their own Bible for unfriendly purposes. The "remove the log from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother's" does not refer to having to be guilty of precisely the same fault, and you are being obtuse to pretend so. Somewhere in your life there are things you will not admit (and shouldn't) and aren't proud of. I don't know what they are. Maybe you pressured a girl who wasn't ready. Maybe you hit a girl once. Maybe you've had copious premarital sex. Maybe you've cheated on a girlfriend. Who knows, who cares. Even if you haven't done any of those things, you are imperfect, flawed, and sinful. So going around correcting the sins of others is judgment, which is reserved for God. Making up punishments or restrictions for others based on sins you feel they commit and you don't, even worse IMHO.

According to your little book, anyway. And 13 years of what Rhyr would call "Christian activist brainwashing", seeing as how I went to Christian schools.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I'm surprised when I hear Christians so intentionally abuse the teachings of their own Bible for unfriendly purposes. The "remove the log from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother's" does not refer to having to be guilty of precisely the same fault, and you are being obtuse to pretend so. Somewhere in your life there are things you will not admit (and shouldn't) and aren't proud of. I don't know what they are. Maybe you pressured a girl who wasn't ready. Maybe you hit a girl once. Maybe you've had copious premarital sex. Maybe you've cheated on a girlfriend. Who knows, who cares. Even if you haven't done any of those things, you are imperfect, flawed, and sinful. So going around correcting the sins of others is judgment, which is reserved for God. Making up punishments or restrictions for others based on sins you feel they commit and you don't, even worse IMHO.

According to your little book, anyway. And 13 years of what Rhyr would call "Christian activist brainwashing", seeing as how I went to Christian schools.

So are you against judging people who kill other people? What about people who judge?

Judgement is pretty straight forward. Judge not lest ye be judged. I'm open to being judged. I judge myself and like to hear the judgments of others about elements of decency that I am lacking.

It is stupid not to judge people - we do it everyday and it is healthy and good. Hey, maybe AA sponsors shouldn't judge alchoholics since they were alchoholics themselves once too?

What if we just try to help reform the lives of those who sin, including homosexuals? I'm not calling for them to be imprisoned or stoned to death. Maybe you havn't read up enough on it. Read wrtings from Paul. Read about when Jesus flipped those tables in the temple. Or how he came not to destroy the laws (of which one book is entitled "judges") but to fulfill them.

[Koga No Goshi]

So are you against judging people who kill other people? What about people who judge?

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." Jesus never said it's okay to judge people for crimes. He said it was your duty to forgive. But he acknowledged worldly authority and heavenly authority as totally separate. Your flaw here as well as the entire Christian right, and the whole of Sharia Islam, is that they can ever be, or should ever be, one and the same. Jesus did not attempt to overturn all the laws of the land during his life, but nor did he try to add some for "sins not on the books yet."

Judgement is pretty straight forward. Judge not lest ye be judged. I'm open to being judged. I judge myself and like to hear the judgments of others about elements of decency that I am lacking.

Your argument was "I'm not gay so I can judge gay people as much as I want." I would like to see you present that one to your god.

It is stupid not to judge people - we do it everyday and it is healthy and good. Hey, maybe AA sponsors shouldn't judge alchoholics since they were alchoholics themselves once too?

So now you are calling your religion stupid. P.S. there is a difference between making distinction/decision, and judging. I can say blue is different from green. But if I say if you like blue more than green you're vile and should have fewer rights and will go to hell, well, that's different.

What if we just try to help reform the lives of those who sin, including homosexuals? I'm not calling for them to be imprisoned or stoned to death. Maybe you havn't read up enough on it. Read wrtings from Paul. Read about when Jesus flipped those tables in the temple. Or how he came not to destroy the laws (of which one book is entitled "judges") but to fulfill them.

Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, so why it is so high up on the vile 10 most wanted hate list of Christians is beyond me. Probably just becuase most Christians aren't gay and thus it's a sin they can scapegoat as being so "bad" and feel good that they themselves aren't guilty of it, while they go back to being greedy, selfish, gluttonous judgmental capitalists who lie and harm others and covet things.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well yes. You make it seem like clergyman don't sin well they do! The end times? I didnt know they still made people like you in Britain "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" How are you going to completely condemn an act that has no effect on you and poses no threat to public safety?

God calls us wherever we are. You'll find a few of us dotted around Scotland and Northern Ireland. Although if you're wondering I didn't inherit my beliefs through my parents.

Anyawy, the sin doesn't have to affect me, it is an abomination in God's eyes and as His servant I'm obliged to try to prevent it happening. Through eradicating the sin, not the sinner. Because we are of course all sinners, and born as sinners.

Regardless, the whole "judge not" argument used by atheists is ridculous, and taken spectacularly out of context. So basically what TuffStuff said. We judge as best as we can through God's grace. But Christians must remember that we are all born equally sinful, it would be comitting the sin of Lucifer to deny so.

EDIT: Also Koga stop spamming absurd generalisations against Christians. We're not all Shirley Phelps. Its a bit like me saying Stalin is from now on the basis of all socialism, which of course as a lefty I wouldn't!

[Koga No Goshi]

Anyawy, the sin doesn't have to affect me, it is an abomination in God's eyes and as His servant I'm obliged to try to prevent it happening. Through eradicating the sin, not the sinner. Because we are of course all sinners, and born as sinners.

If you believe it is within your power to eradicate sin, least of all by seeking legislative power to punish "sins", you have a lot to learn about being Christian.

[ICantSpellDawg]

P.S. there is a difference between making distinction/decision, and judging

There is? Isn't it just a semantic difference?

I can distingish good from bad. I can distinguish between guilty and not guilty, black and white.

[Rhyfelwyr]

If you believe it is within your power to eradicate sin, least of all by seeking legislative power to punish "sins", you have a lot to learn about being Christian.

Of course it is my duty to try, what makes you think otherwise?

Only God can grant forgiveness, all I can do is spread the Word. The problem is when I do that I'm told I'm being hateful of people (which is blatantly untrue), and that I'm infringing on their beliefs.

[Koga No Goshi]

Of course it is my duty to try, what makes you think otherwise?

Only God can grant forgiveness, all I can do is spread the Word. The problem is when I do that I'm told I'm being hateful of people (which is blatantly untrue), and that I'm infringing on their beliefs.

It is your duty to correct sin in yourself, and forgive and help others for theirs. Not to pursue petty legal persecution against what you believe to be a "fake made up identity surrounding a sin act", some strange prejudiced qualification you make on gay people even though plenty of straight people have nothing binding them together but a sinful sex act.

There is? Isn't it just a semantic difference?

I can distingish good from bad. I can distinguish between guilty and not guilty, black and white.

That's discrimination. Telling the difference between two things. Judgment is assigning punishment or weight to offenses as if you are perfect and have the right to decide who is more befouled than who.

[Rhyfelwyr]

It is your duty to correct sin in yourself, and forgive and help others for theirs. Not to pursue petty legal persecution against what you believe to be a "fake made up identity surrounding a sin act", some strange prejudiced qualification you make on gay people even though plenty of straight people have nothing binding them together but a sinful sex act.

And how does telling children that its OK to be gay correct that sin in them?

[Lemur]

And how does telling children that its OK to be gay correct that sin in them?

How does telling your children anything affect whether they wind up gay or straight? Last time I checked, gay children were as likely to emerge from Bible-loving households as any other. What evidence do you have that ...

Oh nevermind. Carry on.

[Strike For The South]

God calls us wherever we are. You'll find a few of us dotted around Scotland and Northern Ireland. Although if you're wondering I didn't inherit my beliefs through my parents.

Anyawy, the sin doesn't have to affect me, it is an abomination in God's eyes and as His servant I'm obliged to try to prevent it happening. Through eradicating the sin, not the sinner. Because we are of course all sinners, and born as sinners.

Regardless, the whole "judge not" argument used by atheists is ridculous, and taken spectacularly out of context. So basically what TuffStuff said. We judge as best as we can through God's grace. But Christians must remember that we are all born equally sinful, it would be comitting the sin of Lucifer to deny so.

EDIT: Also Koga stop spamming absurd generalisations against Christians. We're not all Shirley Phelps. Its a bit like me saying Stalin is from now on the basis of all socialism, which of course as a lefty I wouldn't!

we are not born with sin .