The Magnaura

[Ituralde]

Mavrozomis was adopted by Ioannis Komnenos, making him part of the Royal Family. That means that his sons, adopted or not should be considered part of the Royal Family. The title of Caesar worn by Methodios Tagaris is testimony to this.

Furthermore closer reading of the records will reveal to you that it was in fact Methodios Tagaris that declared war on the Basileus through his act of treason, every loyal subject of the Basileus should respond with a declaration of their own to this blatant attack.

[Dafuge]

I see I have been unwillingly dragged into this war. I don't like it, but I will stand for my Lord. Just to let you know.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It was not a declaration of war. I don't remember him slamming the doors and yelling 'I declare civil war!'
I think it was Ioannis who did that. The way he interpreted the marriage of Hypatia is his business. What can I say. Ioannis is fool and is destroying everything that his father helped to build! He is not fit to wear the name 'Komnenos'!

[Dafuge]

Senators, I bring grave news, the German crusaders, who were revolted out of Jerusulam have seemingly not being killed off but fled with minor casualties. They are stationed outside Acre whilst a small force has broken off and is heading up the mountains.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas sighs and shakes his head at the most recent exchange between Senator Petzas and Lord Pavlos.

"Senator Petzas, your argument has more holes in it than cheese from Bern. I await word from the Senators and House lords on their stance in this matter. The Basileus has requested your allegiance, what say you my Lords of Byzantium?"

[ULC]

Nikolaos sighs. "Such tempting offers really. One wonders why I should be loyal to either side in this conflict."

[Ituralde]

Pavlos shakes his head and glares at Nikolaos.

Do you want me to say bloody please? Your lord asks your assistance if that isn't enough for you than I can't help you.

[Andres]

Efthymios ek Herakliou, if you feel that the Basileus is right and your Lord wrong in this matter, then I suggest you break your oath to the Caesar. Nobody will hold it against us. We don't expect you to remain loyal to a traitor.

Savvas looks at Nikolaos.

Senator, are you trying to say that you are loyal to the one who makes you the best offer?

I am deeply disappointed, dear colleague. We are Senators of the Roman Empire, not mercenaries!

Savvas addresses Pavlos.

It is true that I'm more talkative, but I don't want to talk the day away. If action is required, then I'll be where the action is, let there be no doubt about that.

I was just trying to say that a more, let us say careful and diplomatic approach, is needed in this sensitive matter.

Savvas stares at Senator Petzas.

You are joking, right?

Savvas keeps staring, while sipping on his goblet of wine.

[ULC]

Pavlos shakes his head and glares at Nikolaos.

Do you want me to say bloody please? Your lord asks your assistance if that isn't enough for you than I can't help you.

"Maybe you don't realize the extremely delicate position I am in? If I go with the Basileus, my rank, title, trust bestowed in me, and my House evaporate faster then water in the desert. if I side with Methodios, I keep my rank, title, trust, and my House, but I gain the enmity of you, the Basileus and everyone else as well. So far, I have heard nothing that can assure me I simply won't be absorbed into another House, like House Asteri or the Order, by being loyal, nor anything about how my House will continue on afterward."

Nikolaos turns to Savvas.

"Dear Savvas, I did serve in the Varangian Guard. I am sure you know the nature of such men?"

[Andres]

"Maybe you don't realize the extremely delicate position I am in? If I go with the Basileus, my rank, title, trust bestowed in me, and my House evaporate faster then water in the desert. if I side with Methodios, I keep my rank, title, trust, and my House, but I gain the enmity of you, the Basileus and everyone else as well. So far, I have heard nothing that can assure me I simply won't be absorbed into another House, like House Asteri or the Order, by being loyal, nor anything about how my House will continue on afterward."

That's what you get when you're not too picky when it comes to vassals. Maybe you should hold higher standards before accepting an oath in the future?

Don't escape your own responsability, dear Lord. Or you help cleaning up this mess and worry about your future later, or you face some very nasty consequences.

Nikolaos turns to Savvas.

"Dear Savvas, I did serve in the Varangian Guard. I am sure you know the nature of such men?"

Be that as it may, the past is the past. Today, you are a Senator in this body. Act like one.

[Dafuge]

Efthymios ek Herakliou, if you feel that the Basileus is right and your Lord wrong in this matter, then I suggest you break your oath to the Caesar. Nobody will hold it against us. We don't expect you to remain loyal to a traitor.

I am not siding with the Basileus, actually quite the opposite, I was just stating my loyalty to my house and my lord.

[ULC]

That's what you get when you're not too picky when it comes to vassals. Maybe you should hold higher standards before accepting an oath in the future?

Don't escape your own responsibility, dear Lord. Or you help cleaning up this mess and worry about your future later, or you face some very nasty consequences.

"Savvas, I have never held any enmity towards you, why so bitter? I was not picky in my choosing of vassals Savvas, Methodios is a fine man. But to put any man into such a position is clearly going to raise someones hackles. Sadly, I see no reason why Hypatia had to be married to a man with limited prospects for children. In my eyes, it was done to antagonize Methodios into a rash action needlessly."

Nikolaos sighs as he leans back to something Demetrios whispers to him. Nikolaos nods, hands him a note, and Demetrios disappears.

"I know my responsibility, you do not need to remind me Savvas. But I am also sure you understand not to be blindly loyal as well, right? Like right now." Nikolaos glowers. "I tire of this, maybe when you have felt what I have experienced, you will realize that petty politics mean nothing when you have a responsibility to more then yourself. Tell me Savvas, are a godfather to any children? Where do you spend most of your time, at your desk doing your work, at the bar whoring and losing your self in your wine, or spending time with those who look up to you and depend on you? What future do my godson Demetrios and goddaughter Chara have, what chance does young Aleksandra, Theodora, and Ioannis Tagaris have? I awiat your well reasoned, sober answer."

[flyd]

Well, let's recap what happened.

There was once a man called Alexios Komnenos. He was an Emperor, and he had three sons. Now, the first son was married in a political move to a Kievan princess. He doesn't talk about her much, she doesn't figure much in the things he does, and most of the court could probably not even recall her name off the top their heads. This is important to mention because a man untouched by love is bound to be a little cranky, which might explain some of the things. Now, there was no diplomatically useful bride for the second son, which, you would think, would be a boon for this young man, but he proved to be wholly incapable of attracting women. Closing in on 30 years of age now, he is certainly not married, and there are serious doubts as to whether he has ever had any, at least without having to pay for it afterwards (or in advance? How does that work, anyway?). Then there is also the third son, who is of no consequence in these events but is only mentioned for completeness, and who has found himself a beautiful lady named "gold", and has fathered many children in a remarkably short period of time.

There is also a man named Methodios Tagaris, Hero of Belgrade, for which act he was adopted into the royal family by another hero now dead. He's a complicated man, and no one understands him but his woman. Still, his service to our Empire has been simple: he has fought its enemies in the east and west. There are few who would levy much complaint against him. He is old, and he is venerable. He too is a man beloved by his family, numerous it is with three daughters and a son. There isn't much to his position in this mess: he seems to act out of love.

What of the others, then? The first son of Alexios (though not so fit to inherit the capital city) is a controversial figure, to say the least. One thing that should be clear to any unbiased observer is that he is paranoid and power-hungry. As Megas Logothetes, he attempted to use all the power at his disposal to his personal advantage, an act which caused his own father to strip him of the right to hold that office upon acceding without the consent of the Senate. When the accession occurred, the first thing he did was make everyone state their loyalty to him, and tried to seize for himself the power of recruiting Varangians, an effort that he has yet to succeed in. This incident is more of the same, an attempt to show how mighty he is. What of the second son, then? His most distinguishing characteristic is that he's still a bachelor. At best, this is an ill-conceived attempt to get some action, although there really isn't much evidence to suggest that he likes women in the first place, and this could well have been instigated by him just to remove the embarrassment of being unmarried. The first son was happy to jump onboard in an action that is tantamount to yelling, "Look at me! I can decree things!"

Don't be fooled, Senators. This is not a political issue. It is an issue of love. It is the love of one man for his daughter vs. the love of another man for his reputation. This other man has already declared a war once over petty words. There is a third, mostly irrelevant, man, who is lonely at best, and very confused and conflicted at worst. Not only is this issue apolitical, and hardly worth spilling Greek blood and weakening the Empire over. This war would accomplish nothing: the marriage is done, there is no divorce. If Tagaris committed some great crime, he could be punished, he might even accept willingly, but the first son has called for an escalation of the conflict. It should be obvious that, to him, this has little to do with marriage, and even less to do with love (a concept he probably doesn't grasp). Instead, it is just another chance to throw his weight around, and draw attention to the size of his enormous... political power. It's pretty big, they say.

It would be a shame if any blood was spilled over this.

Respectfully to those who deserve it,

Isaakios Komnenos, third son of Alexios.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo wants to say something but words don't want to come out of his mouth..

[deguerra]

Despite having kept a stone cold face during all of the proceedings, Ioannis cannot but give Isaakios a wide smile

[AussieGiant]

My Lord Isaakios,

Can you complete a few oversights in your monologue?

If you have the time please let me know so I can ask the questions in a timely manner.

[flyd]

Certainly, Senator Vringas, I do plan on sticking around long enough to defend my statements.

[Dafuge]

Ethymios smirks briefly before returning to his work.

[AussieGiant]

Excellent.

Just a few questions.

1) Who declared war on who?

2) Who has escalated this event most recently?

3) Did anyone at any stage request by way of edict or CA any changes to the Royal Powers of the Basileus prior to this event?

4) Define the different types of Royalty, if any, their different responsibilities, if any, and how we can tell the differences at this time?

5) Is there any ability to avoid the requirements and/or benefits of being part of the Royal Lineage?

6) Please state what parts of the Royal Powers warrant the title "some great crime" if they are defied, please also state what the categories of defying other powers are, and most importantly why?

[flyd]

A little disappointing, Vringas, that you ignore the main points and focus on the periphery of the argument, with unclear and misleading questions. Nonetheless, I shall indulge you as I promised.

1. An irrelevant technicality. If we accept that Tagaris acts out of love, which I claimed in my statement, then his hand was forced. And he didn't "declare war" outright as much as he sanctioned an illegal marriage. Certainly, you can argue if it was a right thing to do or not, but the actual declaration of the war is only a minor legalism.

2. Ioannis. It could have, perhaps, remained a conflict between Ioannis (and his followers) and Tagaris, but Ioannis called on all Senators to enter the war. He said, "I hereby call upon all senators and nobles of the empire to declare their hand - now. I will have no neutrality. You either will declare against the Caesar, or against me." This is an escalation.

3. No, perhaps they expected to be able to deal with Ioannis in a reasonable fashion, and did not expect him to merely declare his decision in the Senate without any consultation of the father. Perhaps they were too optimistic.

4. You can look at the charter if you want legal definitions of the different strata in our society. If you want a semantic definition, you can look in a dictionary (probably from Latin rex, meaning king). I know you're trying to get at something here, but I don't know what. You could speak more plainly.

5. Is there a need to exercise every power to your personal advantage, even when it causes animosity among Senators, and starts civil wars and endangers the Empire, i.e. just because you can, must you?

6. "Some great crime" isn't a "title" and gives no legal distinction when applied. I used it as a descriptor, the sentence out of which you pulled the phrase said "If he defied, he can be punished." For a man who so often speaks against excessive legalism, you are certainly clinging onto words and definitions with an uncharacteristic ferocity.

[Ramses II CP]

A letter arrives from Vissarionas ek Lesvou, stamped with his seal. The treatment of the previous messenger has not gone unremarked, however, as this one is given directly into the hands of Imperial scribes and the messenger who delivered it flees before they bring it into the Magnaura chamber to be read. The scribe who is selected, a young man who is obviously mildly retarded but has been trained to read slowly and loudly, bears the letter forward and stares stupidly at the Emperor for a moment before starting,

Senators of Rome,

I am disgusted that acts of assassination have been carried out within our Empire. Only the lowest, most depraved, diabolical, power mad sort of fool would engage the services of these foul beasts of Islam.

Which is why it comes as an utter shock to me to discover that our Emperor was not the man who engaged them against me. I confirm that here in the Senate for all to hear. It was not him. Truly. I doubted it at first as well, but the information I have really is quite reliable. Yes, extremely reliable, I checked it personally! Please believe me, he didn't do it.

In any case, if any are still listening credibly, I wish to personally disavow any use of the assassins in retaliation and I would expect every chivalrous member of the Senate to do the same. Further acts of assassination against me will result in retaliation of a more direct, honest kind, and rest assured as certainly as I know the identity of my current assailant I will discover the names of any future ones. I am already working out terms to bring a peaceful conclusion to the conflict unecessarily brought between myself and another House.

I have the oddest feeling that the Emperor would delight in having me join the Caesar's cause as well, but this too shall I decline to do. It is the right of the head of a household to assign those females of his line to whatever depraved fate his fancy finds entertaining. Alas that it is so, but it is so, and has always been. I will pray that a peaceful resolution can be found.

Of course I will also decline to attack the Caesar in the Emperor's name. If nothing else I lack the forces to do so successfully, seeing as someone had my best troops assassinated on the assumption I would be joining Methodios.

Go with God senators, pray for peace, and do not allow yourselves to be compelled to fight in this mad civil war. I happen to have met the girl in question, and while she has a wonderful personality I personally wouldn't so much as step into a leaky rowboat to fight a frog for her hand.

Vissarionas ek Lesvou

[AussieGiant]

Turning from the scribe who just read out the letter from Vissarionas, Apionnas address Isaakios.

I suppose what I'm trying to work out Isaakios, is how the Emperor of this Realm, using powers no one has disputed, ever, in fact does exercise one of these "said powers", which we all know is designed to increase the Komnenoi line, something the the specific power is designed to support.

At this time, a fully fledged member of the Royal Family and Caesar of this Empire no less, who has been a fully fledged member for some years I might add, and therefore someone we can assume that as a member of the Royal Family full well knows the benefits and limitations of holding such high office, decides that in this particular case the laws should not apply to his daughter, a Royal Princess of this Realm, with all the trappings, privileges and obligations that go with such a station.

So instead of marrying a direct descendant of our most beloved Emperor Aleksios, the 'sane' move at this time, rather than discuss things privately, is to now, in a fit of apparent love for his daughter, that instead of complying with the laws of the land, which no one has disputed or even discussed, even though such Royally arranged weddings were used to organise our current Emperor's wedding, is no longer appropriate.

So...rather than using any civilised mechanism of Edicts, Charter Amendments or other such devises, the Caesar decides, using all rational means at his disposal to 'instead'...'declare war', which is labeled a "minor legalism" by you, a somewhat understated comment if ever I have heard one.

Your defense of this 'minor legalistic' approach, is that the Caesar, was "forced".

Of course there is no mention of 'insanity' or 'flying pigs' in your defense, the actual defense you use is, "he was forced."

It does seem all rather dramatic, especially considering the level of sophistication and civilisation on display here in this chamber.

All in all, it is a rather appropriate way to go about the running of an Empire and certainly an excellent way of handling marriages as it pertains to Royal Princesses.

So go right ahead Isaakios, be disappointed in me, because that is certainly the most sane approach to this whole thing as far as any sane person would believe.

Taking a seat Apionnas glances up and continues;

"On a small administrative matter the following individuals have been admitted to the University.

Scholars:

Methodios Tagaris
Aleksios ek Ikoniou
Ioannis Kalameteros
Vartholomaios Ksiros
Tiverios Indikoplefstis"

[flyd]

Apionnas, there is a reason I mentioned all of the previous infractions against peace and stability that were made by Ioannis. This is the same as it was before: he abuses his power with no regard for anyone. It causes animosity and conflict. Second time he has been in a declared war. What exactly did he expect to happen if he pushed this issue with Tagaris uncompromisingly? Did he not see this coming? Does that make him merely stupid rather than arrogant?

There is no question that what Tagaris did was illegal. Against the charter, illegal. We get it. It should be punished. You say the Caesar should have used the "civilized mechanisms", but at the same time you don't call for him to be punished with the same, but instead are perfectly happy to watch the Empire ripped apart. The man you defend called everyone to join in instead of trying to limit the conflict, never mind working to keep it a bloodless one. No war will make that woman unmarried. He's either out for revenge (there's the rule of law for you), or he wants this war.

You also make light of the fact that Tagaris was forced into the situation. If we're discussing phrases, I rather like "a fit of apparent love for his daughter". You make it sound like a seizure, and it's clearly not "apparent" love, if he was willing to go to these lengths, though this point you might not understand. The question raised previously still remains, was the Emperor:

a) wishing to instigate a war and used this as a convenient method
b) so arrogant that he would not yield an inch even if it resulted in a war
c) an unloved fool who didn't see Tagaris' reaction coming

(c) is probably not the answer, since he now pushes for escalation, and those can only be explained by the first two options. I'm not necessarily accusing him of wanting to instigate a war, because it is well known just how much of an arrogant d*^%#$%^ he can be. So, like I said at the beginning of this statement, it's more of the same.

[pevergreen]

Michail sighs deeply in his seat, finally finding his resolve, he stands:

"I am unable to choose a side in this debacle, so I declare my independance. I no longer hold allegiance to anyone. I do not wish to change anything, nor do I rebuke my position as a Senator, but I have no oath to the throne. I sit in Epirius, as a neutral state of our Empire. I will defend my territory and will not expand, that I can promise."

[ULC]

I will declare my neutrality as well. I cannot become involved in this dispute, especially when I will lose if I do pick sides. However, if I see one man wearing Komnenodoukai or the Basileus's livery in my territory armed, under any circumstances, I will in variably be forced to take the necessary actions.

[Rodrico Stak]

Ioannis Komennos III gives a low whistle.

I never expected that the first council session I have been old enough to attend would erupt into civil war shortly afterwards!

I have no land, or armies, or a house, and so I have nothing to declare my alliegance with. As the son of the Baselius, my loyalty lies with him, but that is all that I can do. For now, I think, it will be my place to watch from the sidelines.

[pevergreen]

"Ioannis III, I offer my region of Epirus as haven for you, as it is now neutral. I would like to talk to you further, if you decide to accept my offer. My soldiers would protect you as though you were me."

[OverKnight]

Tiverios stands.

It seems that many Senators wish to remain neutral in this matter and I agree. However, the issue remains that the taxes and soldiers from our settlements will be involved in this war unless we do something about it.

I propose that all of us who wish a diplomatic end to this conflict band together. We should lower our taxes in our settlements to the minumum to ensure that our funds are not used to shed the blood of fellow Romans. We should also prohibit the deployment of our garrisons and new recruits outside our settlements so that our soldiers are not involved.

We cannot stop this war directly, but we can starve it.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas with some exaspiration says:

Isaakios, tell me EXACTLY how you abuse a power that is clearly stated in the the Royal Decree on Royal marriages?!

It is therefore "by definition", impossible to PUSH anyone uncompromisingly in this case.

Let me paint a picture for those who maybe interested.

--------------------------------

Julius Caesar Rome:

"Soliders of Rome, it is with my god given powers and that of my station and the privileged position I have as your Commander that I order you to attack the enemies of Rome!! Forward march!"

Second in Command:

Clearing his throat rather embarrassingly;

"Excuse me sir, just a small point of order on that last comment you made...umm, in this particular instance, I'd just like to inform you, formally of course, that I'll be declining your request, because, actually I do not want to obey that particular order at this time, and due to the fact you did not ask me, or in fact negotiate with me prior to making that statement, my entire defence, as my lawyers have outlined is that you have "forced" my hand in the matter.

So, with that said, I'm going to disobey that command directly and actually do the exact opposite. So I'll be taking myself in the opposite direction at this time, and I would actually be greatly appreciative if you could just carry on without me for the moment."

Julius Caesar Rome:

"My good man, thanks ever so much for that description, might I just ask you to bring me up to speed on the definitions of Treason, Dereliction of Duty as they currently are defined?

I'm having a hard time with all this and I seem to be missing something in your position on the matter."

[Ituralde]

Isaakios Komnenos your arguments are sound ones, from your perspective on these matters. As member of the Privy Council I have a different view on these matters. As Megas Logothetes it would have been in my power, and mine alone, to carry out the decree ordered by the Basileus. You were not part of the discussions in the Privy Council but various methods were discussed to prevent this conflict from escalating. You know from the past that I despise Civil War, but Methodios Tagaris chose to escalate this conflict by marrying his daugther off to the next best suitor just to deny the Basileus his privilege.

He has set a dangerous precedent by this. The rules of our Charter can not be ignored and there have to be consequences, otherwise this whole body becomes a farce. As I said before I will not support bloodshed among Romans unless it is necessary. I am more than willing to end this war if Methodios Tagaris steps up to this chamber and accepts the punishment that will be decreed by all members of this Senate.