Islamic group to build mosque adjacent to ground zero

[al Roumi]

Must be a leftist reflex as I never said such a thing

You aren't the only person posting here...

[Lemur]

I see this thread continues to be content- and calorie-free. How's that mosque coming? Anybody seen the blueprints? The plans? The engineering reports? Hmmmm? How about a concept drawing? Anything?

Here's one of them "leftists" Frag keeps going on about. Strangely, he's publishing in American Conservative. Must be yet another example of taqiyya, yes indeedy.

[W]hat I find remarkable about this mosque controversy is how blatantly, narrowly political the opposition to this particular construction project has been. It has been an exercise in manipulating public anger and using it for the purpose of waging an ostensibly anti-Islamist political campaign by organizing against harmless Muslims and their organizations. A distinctive American culture isn’t under threat from this mosque, the Cordoba Initiative or Imam Abdul Rauf. Rauf and those like him do represent a threat to lazy conservative anti-jihadism that treats every Muslim to “the right” of Ayaan Hirsi Ali as a potential fifth columnist and would-be enforcer of creeping shari’a. [...]

It isn’t enough if Muslims peacefully practice their religion, reject violence and embrace their new countries, but they must also become pro-government loyalists.

[Fragony]

You aren't the only person posting here...

Then be more specific plz, I take it is either Cute Wolf or Sonic as they march with me. These two know their stuff, Sonic is an ex-muslim of Indo/Arab descent and Cute Wolf a minority in a muslim country, I would be careful with dismissing their input.

[al Roumi]

Then be more specific plz, I take it is either Cute Wolf or Sonic as they march with me. These two know their stuff, Sonic is an ex-muslim of Indo/Arab descent and Cute Wolf a minority in a muslim country, I would be careful with dismissing their input.

Indeed, and I would castigate myself had I been doing so on matters of which they have experience -i.e. in Indonesia. However, when it comes to Muslims in the UK or Europe, I don't think they have a clue -and I'm still waiting for any kind of substantiation of the outrageous claim that:

"You allready knew that your average european muslims is wahhabi one, the one who called themself as sunnah wal jammaah."

And then (admitedly in a different thread):

is there any muslim women who didn't worn hijab on that flotilla? if that gals present, then Israel had more to be blamed (moderate muslims really exist there, and they shouldnt be shot)

...where the implication is that 1) (again) you can tell an extremist group by whether the women in it wear Hijabs, 2) it might be ok to shoot a group of Muslims when the women in the group do wear Hijabs.

It is ramadan now. Many more muslim women where I live are wearing Hijabs on the streets than usual. Does this mean there has been a rise in extremists?

[Fragony]

It certainly isn't true for the Netherlands, most wear it out of piety, the custom has it's roots in Arab islam though. But let's turn it around, why are you so sure that it simply isn't true.

[al Roumi]

It certainly isn't true for the Netherlands, most wear it out of piety, the custom has it's roots in Arab islam though. But let's turn it around, why are you so sure that it simply isn't true.

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist. They also insist that everyone they know who wears the Hijab also does so out of choice. They don't deny that there will be some who are forced to wear the Hijab, but they consider them to be a minority. They consider it arrogant that people assume muslim women must be oppressed to wear it.

Al Qaida are terrorists with a clear political agenda which they back up with select bits of scripture. That does not make all muslims terrorists.

[Fragony]

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist. They also insist that everyone they know who wears the Hijab also does so out of choice. They don't deny that there will be some who are forced to wear the Hijab, but they consider them to be a minority. They consider it arrogant that people assume muslim women must be oppressed to wear it.

Some do some don't, but that wasn't my point, you seem to naturally assume they share your values, some do and some don't, the latter may be a bit more represented than you might expect from your experiences.

[al Roumi]

Some do some don't, but that wasn't my point, you seem to naturally assume they share your values, some do and some don't, the latter may be a bit more represented than you might expect from your experiences.

I do? Where do I say that?

Some have very different values to me, they might be hard to understand but I have to respect them. Personaly I'd rather women played as full and complete a part in society as men (rather than shutting themselves off through modesty), but if it's a personal choice, I have to respect it. It doesn't make them bad people, let alone terrorists or extremists.

My "line in the sand" is about having a positive desire to coexist and not force things on other people, which is exactly what the UK is meant to be all about.

[Meneldil]

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist.

Sorry for the one liner, but this deserves nothing but a 'lol'.
If refusing to marry a non-muslim and wearing a hijab doesn't make one a fundamentalist, I don't know what does...

[Husar]

Well, it doesn't seem unlike the christians who strongly advise their children to marry other christians, maybe it makes them extremists but it certainly doesn't make them dangerous, in the christian case anyway.

[Megas Methuselah]

Sorry for the one liner, but this deserves nothing but a 'lol'.
If refusing to marry a non-muslim and wearing a hijab doesn't make one a fundamentalist, I don't know what does...

Eh? So a Christian who refuses to marry a non-Christian and who wears modest clothes (long sleeves or something) is a fundamentalist, by your argument.

What was it again? Oh, yeah: lol.