Islamic group to build mosque adjacent to ground zero

**Fragony** · 08-26-2010, 15:48

Originally Posted by alh_p

You aren't the only person posting here...

Then be more specific plz, I take it is either Cute Wolf or Sonic as they march with me. These two know their stuff, Sonic is an ex-muslim of Indo/Arab descent and Cute Wolf a minority in a muslim country, I would be careful with dismissing their input.

**al Roumi** · 08-26-2010, 16:05

Originally Posted by Fragony

Then be more specific plz, I take it is either Cute Wolf or Sonic as they march with me. These two know their stuff, Sonic is an ex-muslim of Indo/Arab descent and Cute Wolf a minority in a muslim country, I would be careful with dismissing their input.

Indeed, and I would castigate myself had I been doing so on matters of which they have experience -i.e. in Indonesia. However, when it comes to Muslims in the UK or Europe, I don't think they have a clue -and I'm still waiting for any kind of substantiation of the outrageous claim that:

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

"You allready knew that your average european muslims is wahhabi one, the one who called themself as sunnah wal jammaah."

And then (admitedly in a different thread):

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

is there any muslim women who didn't worn hijab on that flotilla? if that gals present, then Israel had more to be blamed (moderate muslims really exist there, and they shouldnt be shot)

...where the implication is that 1) (again) you can tell an extremist group by whether the women in it wear Hijabs, 2) it might be ok to shoot a group of Muslims when the women in the group do wear Hijabs.

It is ramadan now. Many more muslim women where I live are wearing Hijabs on the streets than usual. Does this mean there has been a rise in extremists?

**Fragony** · 08-26-2010, 16:11

It certainly isn't true for the Netherlands, most wear it out of piety, the custom has it's roots in Arab islam though. But let's turn it around, why are you so sure that it simply isn't true.

**al Roumi** · 08-26-2010, 16:39

Originally Posted by Fragony

It certainly isn't true for the Netherlands, most wear it out of piety, the custom has it's roots in Arab islam though. But let's turn it around, why are you so sure that it simply isn't true.

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist. They also insist that everyone they know who wears the Hijab also does so out of choice. They don't deny that there will be some who are forced to wear the Hijab, but they consider them to be a minority. They consider it arrogant that people assume muslim women must be oppressed to wear it.

Al Qaida are terrorists with a clear political agenda which they back up with select bits of scripture. That does not make all muslims terrorists.

**Fragony** · 08-26-2010, 16:45

Originally Posted by alh_p

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist. They also insist that everyone they know who wears the Hijab also does so out of choice. They don't deny that there will be some who are forced to wear the Hijab, but they consider them to be a minority. They consider it arrogant that people assume muslim women must be oppressed to wear it.

Some do some don't, but that wasn't my point, you seem to naturally assume they share your values, some do and some don't, the latter may be a bit more represented than you might expect from your experiences.

**al Roumi** · 08-26-2010, 17:08

Originally Posted by Fragony

Some do some don't, but that wasn't my point, you seem to naturally assume they share your values, some do and some don't, the latter may be a bit more represented than you might expect from your experiences.

I do? Where do I say that?

Some have very different values to me, they might be hard to understand but I have to respect them. Personaly I'd rather women played as full and complete a part in society as men (rather than shutting themselves off through modesty), but if it's a personal choice, I have to respect it. It doesn't make them bad people, let alone terrorists or extremists.

My "line in the sand" is about having a positive desire to coexist and not force things on other people, which is exactly what the UK is meant to be all about.

**Fragony** · 08-26-2010, 17:47

This isn't about headscarves, it's about potential terrorism. You slammed Cute Wolf's post, so why are you so sure that not every veiled muslima is a potential terrorist, purely theoratical because it's naturally not true.

**Meneldil** · 08-27-2010, 23:04

Originally Posted by alh_p

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist.

Sorry for the one liner, but this deserves nothing but a 'lol'.
If refusing to marry a non-muslim and wearing a hijab doesn't make one a fundamentalist, I don't know what does...

**Husar** · 08-27-2010, 23:56

Well, it doesn't seem unlike the christians who strongly advise their children to marry other christians, maybe it makes them extremists but it certainly doesn't make them dangerous, in the christian case anyway.

**Fragony** · 08-28-2010, 07:43

Goes too far for meas well, that is just tradition, no need for integration they don't have to. A fundamentalist muslim rejects manmade law and wants to live under strict shariah law. That is still an opinion and perfectly fine with me, but when it becomes actively sabotaging the system and preaching hate we have a problem.

**Megas Methuselah** · 08-28-2010, 08:12

Originally Posted by Meneldil

Sorry for the one liner, but this deserves nothing but a 'lol'.
If refusing to marry a non-muslim and wearing a hijab doesn't make one a fundamentalist, I don't know what does...

Eh? So a Christian who refuses to marry a non-Christian and who wears modest clothes (long sleeves or something) is a fundamentalist, by your argument.

What was it again? Oh, yeah: lol.

**Beskar** · 08-28-2010, 08:20

Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

Eh? So a Christian who refuses to marry a non-Christian and who wears modest clothes (long sleeves or something) is a fundamentalist, by your argument.

What was it again? Oh, yeah: lol.

Oh, I know plenty of those. There are some which even go to churches on Sundays. :O

**Meneldil** · 08-28-2010, 08:55

Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

Eh? So a Christian who refuses to marry a non-Christian and who wears modest clothes (long sleeves or something) is a fundamentalist, by your argument.

What was it again? Oh, yeah: lol.

Yes, he is. Don't know where you got the idea I was more forgiving of christian nutjobs than of muslim ones. *shrugs*

Refusing to marry someone who's not following your religion makes you an idiot and an extremist. Period. That's without even taking into account the hijab.

Edit : And before one of you comes with up, yes, I'm a die hard atheist, and yes, I've dated religious girls.

Edit2 : And if you're comparing the hijab to "longue sleeves" than it's my turn to "lol" at you.