Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

[Ludens]

Was there such an high upkeep? (maintenance for a wooden structure with springs of sinews)...

I suppose it is to discourage people from using them on the battlefield. The bigger ones required a lot of time to set up and range, so no use for on the battlefield. Also, don't underestimate just how expensive they were. They weren't created from from a few logs cut down on the spot, but required special wood types. The people who operate them were highly-paid experts.

[Duguntz]

I suppose it is to discourage people from using them on the battlefield. The bigger ones required a lot of time to set up and range, so no use for on the battlefield. Also, don't underestimate just how expensive they were. They weren't created from from a few logs cut down on the spot, but required special wood types. The people who operate them were highly-paid experts.

True, but as an example, when Caesar invaded gauls, he was building his seige engine on the spot, sending parties in the forest to cut wood for that purpuse only, then the engeener team would build the seige engines... so not, everytime, but in many cases the armies had the material already at disposition in the land they were invading...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

And you still build siege engines on the spot when assaulting towns. Only the very delicate torsion based weapons require experts to man and build.

And yeah, I started a tally but decided time would be better spent on my campaign instead. Maybe in a few days lol.

[Olaf The Great]

The only time where siege weapons are useful are in the Central European badass zones, and that's only because the script. Since the siege weapons slow down your army to a crawl the "1 turn bonus" for knocking down walls is effectively lost, though it does have a bit of a use in places like central Italy where you can get Rome, Capua, and Arpi in 2 turns with siege weapons, or 3 turns for the 4 southermost Greek cities, but honestly, it's just silly. Elephants can still knock down wooden walls and gates, and actually have a use on the battlefield after the walls are down.

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

Well, after playing Carthage a bit I decided to bring this thread back with my observations!

Surprisingly Good:
Gldgmtk


These guys are amazing. I always used to hate javelin horses because of the low ammo and short range, but my Gldgmtk turn out to be fearsome engines of destruction in almost every battle. They're fast moving, and can't be caught by any other unit - they can outrun heavy cavalry even while Tired. They have incredible stamina, and will stay Fresh or Warmed up for inhuman amounts of time, and will rest from tired all they way back to fresh in under a minute. Their javelins are capable of tearing a swath of destruction through any unit's rear, even heavy infantry. Give Gldgmtk an elevation advantage and face them to the side or rear of a unit, and be prepared for that 200 man unit to sink down to 50 men in three or four volleys. Then, you can finish the job with a charge since these guys carry long spears as a secondary weapon.

These guys are the best unit I've come across in EB, and are certainly my favorite so far. I've lost count of how many battles witnessed a mere two of these units working together to collapse an entire flank of the enemy army. Just two or three of these guys are worth an entire army. In both of my main armies, my Gldgmtk have significantly more experience than any other unit because they always kill hundreds of men each battle. I just can't say enough about how awesome this unit is. Go Numidia.

I also love these guys for their name. I love words that don't have vowels. G-uhl-d-gmmtk..?

Surprisingly Bad:
Iberian Lancearii


These guys are such a trash unit. It's incredibly disappointing since Lanceari are among the prettiest units in EB - not to mention the most expensive - but they are really a terrible, terrible unit. In melee, Lanceari will get torn to pieces by any other unit in the game, even skirmishers. They are inferior to Sacred Band cavalry in every way, there's simply no reason to use them. Even the Iberian Medium cavalry lasts longer than Lanceari. Lanceari also have a pathetic stamina rating and will often fall to Winded just from being maneuvered into position, before the charge even occurs. This is an especially bad thing because Lanceari have a virtually nonexistent melee attack and low defense for such an expensive unit, so arriving in melee combat with low stamina, low melee attack, and low defense means equals dead unit. The Sacred Band cavalry have better attack, much better defense, only slightly lower charge rating, and can tank it out in melee for 10+ seconds with no problem, as well as turn their backs on a unit to withdraw from a charge without losing any men at all, whereas Lanceari usually lose at least 4-5 men while withdrawing for a new charge due to poor defense and low stamina/speed.

Sacred Band cavalry and Iberian Medium cavalry are better units overall. On a related note, I'm puzzled as to how Sacred Bands have more defense than Lanceari when the Sacred band horse has only a little bit of barding but the Lanceari is completely covered from head to hoof in armor, and the rider almost as well armored. I realize the Sacred Band are supposed to be the better unit due to cost and 1100 upkeep, but at any rate, I'd expect a heavy cavalry unit with 1000 upkeep to be better than this. The upkeep difference between SB and Lanceari isn't much, but the performance difference is extremely noticable. In my Iberian army, my three units of Lanceari are floating around 30-45 men after years on the road, while my Sacred Band unit is still at 86 men, despite using both only for their charges, and despite generally putting the Sacred Band unit in more dangerous situations, having learned that they handle them better than lanceari. That's a huge difference!

[Burebista]

Nice to see noble numidian cav in there. Don't fully agree with you on their cost effectiveness though. I find them too expensive , and would rather have Curepos/leuce epos as they do the same job but much cheaper. Still , it's a matter of preference.

Iberi lanceari....i am also dissapointed about them. Much better to use Parashim cavalry , either one of the 3.

[Olaf The Great]

Cost effectiveness doesn't mean much as the Carthies.
But yeah, the Lanceari are just bad units, in my edu I gave them very good stamina and increased their armor and attack a bit, though I increased their cost too.