The Swedish election

[Shibumi]

outside rape, girl, below 15y of age -278
outside rape, girl, 15-17y of age - 197
outside rape, woman, 18+y of age - 440

278+197+440=915

Those are the numbers I draw from the statistics, sure you didnt miss some field matey? True, when I said "about 1000" I just did a quick skim, I was not so far off the mark though, certeanly closer than your 440.

You are right that 5937 rapes were reported all in all during 2009 all in all (men and women). You are also right that not every outside rape is an assault rape. However, we have no figures published on assault rapes, so as I already said, outside rape was closest I could find. Just how many of the 1kish outside rapes are assault rapes I do not know, but most def more than the 10 you claimed.

And yes, I agree, most rapes are commited when they both know each other. IE, husband raping wife.

Your logic is skewed though, when you say girls are more likely to be raped by a native Swede. Sure, you are right, given native swedes are 90% of the pop. Still doesnt change the fact that an African immigrant is several hundred procent more likely to commit rape than a native swede. Get my point?

However, it seems ludicrous to dig in to the rape argument, I am unsure why Louis brought it up.

We can end that part of the discussion with saying that immigrants are more likely than native swedes to rape, but we are unsure as to how much more unlikely as we dont have the numbers.

The reason I am against massimmigration such as the one we have in Sweden is not because of the rape statistics, but because of econonomical reasons (as well as crime). Not to mention we could spend the money way better helping refugees generally.

[HoreTore]

outside rape, girl, below 15y of age -278
outside rape, girl, 15-17y of age - 197
outside rape, woman, 18+y of age - 440

278+197+440=915

Those are the numbers I draw from the statistics, sure you didnt miss some field matey? True, when I said "about 1000" I just did a quick skim, I was not so far off the mark though, certeanly closer than your 440.

You are right that 5937 rapes were reported all in all during 2009 all in all (men and women). You are also right that not every outside rape is an assault rape. However, we have no figures published on assault rapes, so as I already said, outside rape was closest I could find. Just how many of the 1kish outside rapes are assault rapes I do not know, but most def more than the 10 you claimed.

And yes, I agree, most rapes are commited when they both know each other. IE, husband raping wife.

Your logic is skewed though, when you say girls are more likely to be raped by a native Swede. Sure, you are right, given native swedes are 90% of the pop. Still doesnt change the fact that an African immigrant is several hundred procent more likely to commit rape than a native swede. Get my point?

However, it seems ludicrous to dig in to the rape argument, I am unsure why Louis brought it up.

We can end that part of the discussion with saying that immigrants are more likely than native swedes to rape, but we are unsure as to how much more unlikely as we dont have the numbers.

The reason I am against massimmigration such as the one we have in Sweden is not because of the rape statistics, but because of econonomical reasons (as well as crime). Not to mention we could spend the money way better helping refugees generally.

You bring Pedobear rapes into this discussion...? I left them out for a reason, they have nothing to do with this discussion. The 15-17 age bracket might have a few relevant cases.

"Outside rapes" count rapes committed in cars, in public bathrooms, on field trips, etc etc. When we already know that most rapes are committed by someone the person already knows, I see no reason why that should be restricted to rapes committed indoors, the majority of rapes outside is likely to be committed by someone they know too. Let's say 3/4; that leaves 110 of the original 440 cases. But a big part is likely to be committed by people the victim just met, like a guy at a bar, for example, and they don't fit into the assault rape category either; let's say 50%. Now cut it in half to take into account Norway's population, and the end number is 30, which is in the area of "10 or so", like I said.

But hey, that doesn't fit in with the "darkies gonna get ya"-propaganda, I know.

Also, please prove the figure in the bolded part.

The fact remains that only a tiny percentage of the immigrant population is convicted of rape, and they are the group most likely to be convicted of rape(since new arrivals do not have big social networks, and cases with no relation between rapist and victim are the easiest to solve), so to judge and condemn the million completely innocent immigrants in Sweden due to the actions of a few thousand(at most) is utterly retarded.

Unfortunately, that does seem to be the mental state of the SD, so their behaviour is not surprising.

[Louis VI the Fat]

We can end that part of the discussion with saying that immigrants are more likely than native swedes to rape, but we are unsure as to how much more unlikely as we dont have the numbers.

Well for some rough indication, Frags was so kind as to provide some numbers. Albeit for Oslo and several years ago:

While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo's population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.

[HoreTore]

Well for some rough indication, Frags was so kind as to provide some numbers. Albeit for Oslo and several years ago:

While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo's population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.

Yes, and it's all highly irrelevant due to four factors:

- only 5-10% of rapes are reported and those with ethnic norwegian offenders are less likely to be reported, due to relations
- of those 5-10%, even fewer are reported and again, those with ethnic norwegian offenders are less likely to be convicted, due to relations
- "non-western" includes poles, lithuanians and other easstern euro's, who are not immigrants and have nothing to do with the immigration debate
- building on that: if we assume that in order to buy sex, you need to have a view that sex is a commodity you as a male both need and should be given, and that this attitude could also result in rapes, it is interesting to note that almost all sex buyers are ethnic norwegians and eastern european workers...



If you want a crime statistic, pick murder instead, we have a 95% conviction rate there.


Back on topic:

I'm hoping Sweden will find a Bondevik I solution...

[rory_20_uk]

Equally to sell sex you have to view it as a commodity...

Everything is a commodity. My time is costed to clients, my seniors time is costed to clients and is worth more.

And of course, rape unlike murder for example is not a clear cut issue. There isn't consensual murder. With an allegation of rape there are often two stories almost identical. One recollects they wanted to have sex, the other recollects they didn't. To what extent events post coitus have determined the view is something that is extremely difficult to discern. Possibly it is easier to report an event that occurred with an immigrant as the conviction is more likely and they'll have less support, but also there might be less acceptance of sleeping with an immigrant by one's peers.

A conviction rate is meaningless. You can easily get a 100% rate just by locking someone up for every murder. I assume you mean a 95 conviction rate with a very low rate of mistrials / successful appeals.

[Shibumi]

Time for an update then.

The right wing now have a minority government, thus being forced to haggle with the left. Will be a good four years for political fanboys, lots and lots of gooey deals will be made under the table for sure.

The first decision of bigger interest will be about the Afghan war. The Swedish Democrats (SD) are against the war, and for pulling out ASAP. This is a stance they share with the left, and thus the left wing together with SD could easily block anything the government (who is pro-war) suggests.

The vote about the afghan war will be pretty soon, this fall.

Interesting times!

[Strike For The South]

Time for an update then.

The right wing now have a minority government, thus being forced to haggle with the left. Will be a good four years for political fanboys, lots and lots of gooey deals will be made under the table for sure.

The first decision of bigger interest will be about the Afghan war. The Swedish Democrats (SD) are against the war, and for pulling out ASAP. This is a stance they share with the left, and thus the left wing together with SD could easily block anything the government (who is pro-war) suggests.

The vote about the afghan war will be pretty soon, this fall.

Interesting times!

Where are the closet muslims? Where are the pregnant daughters?

[Shibumi]

Troll post, or did you have a point?

[Fragony]

Where are the closet muslims? Where are the pregnant daughters?

That is never clever, not even in Texas

[Shibumi]

HoreTore, about 50% (48% last time I saw any numbers) of the rapes are commited by immigrants. The immigrant base is 14% of the population. You do the math.

However, why are we bogging down to a discussion of rape? I dont think the rape statistics is the main reason SD gained votes, rather general crime and economical reasons.

[HoreTore]

Equally to sell sex you have to view it as a commodity...

Everything is a commodity. My time is costed to clients, my seniors time is costed to clients and is worth more.

Yes.... My language skills failed me on that one. But anyhoo, it wasn't very important...

And of course, rape unlike murder for example is not a clear cut issue. There isn't consensual murder. With an allegation of rape there are often two stories almost identical. One recollects they wanted to have sex, the other recollects they didn't. To what extent events post coitus have determined the view is something that is extremely difficult to discern. Possibly it is easier to report an event that occurred with an immigrant as the conviction is more likely and they'll have less support, but also there might be less acceptance of sleeping with an immigrant by one's peers.

Indeed! A few weeks ago, I was in bed with a friend of mine after we came home from a night on out. Just slept, no sex involved at all, the reason she slept here instead of at home is because it was a lot easier to get here at 0400. Now... assume I raped her. She was drunk as hell and in no position to resist, I am also a lot stronger than her. She reports it to the police, we end up in court and what happens? I say it was consensual sex. She says it wasn't. As there are absolutely no more evidence, unless I confess, I go free because of the doubt, especially since there have been a lot of flirting between us in the past.

A newly arrived immigrant can't get a get-away-with-rape card like that, due to not having the required social network, and thus gets sentenced to jail and ends up in the statistics, while an ethnic Aryan Übermensch like myself goes free and is removed from the statistic.

A conviction rate is meaningless. You can easily get a 100% rate just by locking someone up for every murder. I assume you mean a 95 conviction rate with a very low rate of mistrials / successful appeals.

Yes, I meant "conviction" as in "still sentenced to jail after all the appeals are dealt with".

HoreTore, about 50% (48% last time I saw any numbers) of the rapes are commited by immigrants. The immigrant base is 14% of the population. You do the math.

I believe I already have, maybe you should give maths a try as well?

However, why are we bogging down to a discussion of rape? I dont think the rape statistics is the main reason SD gained votes, rather general crime and economical reasons.

Well, we're discussing rape because Louis in his infinite wisdom brought it up... But it is highly relevant, since rape is the number 1 scare used by racists, especially when making flyers, followed by narcotics.

[Shibumi]

HoreTore, I am unsure how to convince you. Even the most leftist media in Sweden has admitted that immigrants are way over represented, so to sit online and struggle with trying to get you to accept it seems like a waste of time. Read up on it, by all means. You would have to make a very compelling argument to try and sway me though.

I will leave the rape discussion, but am more than willing to adress other issues, like, the intended issues I first started the thread with (if anyone remembers).




On topic:

I think the economical reasons was the main factor as to why people voted for SD this time around. With finances as they are, people start to frown when money are spent on immigration rather than taking care of the people already in the country.

[HoreTore]

HoreTore, I am unsure how to convince you. Even the most leftist media in Sweden has admitted that immigrants are way over represented, so to sit online and struggle with trying to get you to accept it seems like a waste of time. Read up on it, by all means. You would have to make a very compelling argument to try and sway me though.

lolz.

I have already proven that assault rapes are so rare that they are irrelevant, I have explained why these rape statistics are completely useless numbers that doesn't tell us anything and I have shown why such things should not affect a wider immigration policy.

You, on the other hand, have made absolutely no argument to counter it, and it now looks like you're incapable of doing so.



I'm not saying that is a surprise though, given your affection for SD.

I think the economical reasons was the main factor as to why people voted for SD this time around. With finances as they are, people start to frown when money are spent on immigration rather than taking care of the people already in the country.

And here we see the good parrot repeating another favourite racist quote; that the immigration is costing us a bunch of money. I admit that there haven't been much studies done on this(it's a very large subject), but here is one, and it concludes that immigration is a bonus; immigrants provide more to our nation than they take.



But, as a Norwegian, I am of course more than willing to accept that you Swedes voted out of ignorance instead of actual knowledge

[Fragony]

with 20 percent being women of foreign background.[/I]

And if only you Horetore would understand what an ugly spot they are in. The left calls us islamphobes, but a phobia is irrational, being rational isn't. In the meantime the schoolgirl love for anything Islam gets them all wet in moral painful agony.

[HoreTore]

@HoreTore:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And if only you Horetore would understand what an ugly spot they are in. The left calls us islamphobes, but a phobia is irrational, being rational isn't. In the meantime the schoolgirl love for anything Islam gets them all wet in moral painful agony.

....And if only you, frags, would understand that the majority of these foreign women have ethnic norwegian husbands....

And I support the rights of female immigrants; something the right-wingers love to say they do, but never do; do they really believe that a woman is better of staying in Iran than if they moved here? Nonsense. Our system may fail some, but at least we have a system to protect them.

The right-wing loonies want to throw them all back to countries and law systems where they can be stoned for being raped. To say that is supporting them is mind-blowing.

[Fragony]

....And if only you, frags, would understand that the majority of these foreign women have ethnic norwegian husbands....

Rubbish, Norway counts everybody born in Norway as ethnic. Majority of these new Norwegians import brides, over 70%. Do them a favour and stop trying to help these integrated muslim ladies by excusing the sick culture they managed to leave.

edit: Ah, the first attempted murder http://politisktinkorrekt.info/2010/...-mellanostern/

[Fragony]

Aha http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=5919

Looks like the social democrats haven't lost their appetite for forced surgery on what they consider undesirable for social hygiene. You can have it in any color you like as long as it's red, viva la post-war resistance