Dragon Age: Origins gameplay and discussion thread.

[rajpoot]

So I'll be paying to see an advertisement for DA2 if I get this? I mean I was really looking forward to it...

Is it not even as good as Leliana's Song?

[Beskar]

So I'll be paying to see an advertisement for DA2 if I get this? I mean I was really looking forward to it...

Is it not even as good as Leliana's Song?

Here it is in spoilers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You start the game going to a jungle version of flemeths hut, it is empty for some elf, who is missing a book, then you go off to the Mage Circle to find out what a word means.

So you go off, and run around aimlessly in a non-puzzle, which was an excuse to get some whimpy mage to join you. Then you basically go around that basement room to talk to the talking statue, akin to mage origin story. Then you discover you need lights and a mirrow shards.

For the mirror shards, go do the Dalish elf origin temple to get the shards. For the lights, you go to this thaig.

Now you got both. You go to that Dragon bone bit in Awakening, and fight some dragons then that concept art elf guardian monster, then you enter this tower.

You are now at the Awakenings ending part where 'mother was' you go down the path a little and there is morrigan at the mirror waiting for you.

If you didn't romance her or did the ritual. She much pretty says "you didn't stop me, Flemeth is the bad one, I am running off" then she goes through the mirror, or you can stab her and she falls through the mirror.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the ending part where you did romance her and did do the ritual as a male. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9-v7BlhYE

[Beskar]

First Picture of the Female Hawke.
http://gamescom.gamespot.com/image_v...b%3B4#site_nav

Have to admit, the male hawk is still cooler.

[rajpoot]

After reading the above spoilers I got the DLC. It's not the grand farewell I would've liked it to be, but then I think it suits dark fantasy more, the way it is.

Not much in terms of gameplay, but as mentioned there are several references to DA2....and there are several references to DAO and Awakening a few of which made me feel all warm inside.

Two Easter Eggs;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In the circle tower....what self respecting mage would carry a wand!?
And what kind of pet is an owl, for a mage....Harry Potter!

Laughed quite a bit on seeing those...quite unexpected.
I'm sure there're more which I did not recognize.

Get it for the story if....get it for the ending to the Warden's tale. And get it for the speech Morrigan makes...

Change....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

is coming. People often resist it, even though sometimes change is what is best for them.

I'll bet that that speech is directed at the players as much as it was directed at the Warden.

So all in all, it wasn't what I expected. It did not have Leliana's Song's soundtrack, it did not really have that flowers and sunshine sort of ending, it created a lot more questions and gave almost no answers, and it even had a bug which prevented me from getting the ending I wanted to.....nonetheless, it's worth worth it.

[Meneldil]

Witch Hunt is a waste of money and a waste of time.

How surprising...

I wonder why Bioware keeps releasing completely shameful DLC's for Dragon Age while Mass Effect 2 gets decent stuff. I'd be tempted to say that Bioware thinks DA players are morons and uses DA's money to fund ME.

[Monk]

How surprising...

I wonder why Bioware keeps releasing completely shameful DLC's for Dragon Age while Mass Effect 2 gets decent stuff. I'd be tempted to say that Bioware thinks DA players are morons and uses DA's money to fund ME.

I doubt it has anything to do with that. More likely it's due to the difference in team composition, the DA and ME teams are separate branches of Bioware. Clearly, one has got their stuff together when it comes to DLC, and the other struggles. I haven't (and don't intend to) play witch hunt so I'm not going to comment on its quality, I doubt I could get the most out of it unless, as stated, I was a Male warden and chose the ritual. I did neither of those things. For my character, Dragon Age: Origins really ended when the credits rolled.

[rajpoot]

I doubt I could get the most out of it unless, as stated, I was a Male warden and chose the ritual. I did neither of those things.

That I second. Without a male warden who romanced Morrigan the story doesn't really mean all that much.....although, there is stuff for people who played the mage origin story...but then that's not enough to shell out the money.

[rajpoot]

DA2 gameplay movie, GameCity Vienna.

"When I click this, something awesome happens....." I believe that was the phrase the Bioware devs have been using as their motto....So the whole thing is a lot faster. Hawke seems to be capable of killing 3 Darkspawn/sec more than the Warden. It does not look good though....atleast in the movie, it all seems way to hurried, and the blood spray and splash seems to be overdone....Still...if the story's good, all's well.

[Meneldil]

Seems they gave up completely with the "DA is BG spiritual heir" motto. It failed quite miserably with DA, I can see why they're going for a new direction altogether.

In any case, I found DA decent, but this trailer doesn't paint me as interested. It looks like a mix of God of War and Diablo. Hopefully this means Bioware will start working on a real BG-like RPG after DA licence is dead, which hopefully will happen soon enough.

[Ironside]

It is probably part of the exaggerating part of the story, the PC is way overpowered compared to the enemies. The health bar barely moves, so it's not really a quicker gameplay. Should also explain the vast amount of overkill death explosions.

[AggonyDuck]

The issue with DA was that it just wasn't tactical enough and by the looks of it, instead of trying to make it more tactical like Baldur's Gate, they've decided to throw it all away and go for something absolutely horrendous.

[Vladimir]

What a shame. I really enjoy a type of squad-based combat in a DnD-type world. Why pay $50 for a story?

[Monk]

DA2 gameplay movie, GameCity Vienna.

"When I click this, something awesome happens....." I believe that was the phrase the Bioware devs have been using as their motto....So the whole thing is a lot faster. Hawke seems to be capable of killing 3 Darkspawn/sec more than the Warden. It does not look good though....atleast in the movie, it all seems way to hurried, and the blood spray and splash seems to be overdone....Still...if the story's good, all's well.

Here's the kicker - gameplay wise it doesn't look that bad. The problem is what we're transitioning from. A tactical focused game to a more action oriented hack and slash. On its own merits it looks okay, in the context of the franchise? Eh. It'll do well on release I'm sure, but I've still yet to see media that leads me to believe it wont in some way disappoint.

[Mailman653]

BioWare Details Importing, Combat in Dragon Age II

[Beskar]

What a shame. I really enjoy a type of squad-based combat in a DnD-type world. Why pay $50 for a story?

Huh?

Story is one of the most important things in games.

Do you watch films without a story, or just go "Ooooo pretty pictures".
Do you read books without a story, "I like words!".

Stories are what makes games good. What separates Halo from MW2, or Doom from Quake ? They are essentially the same game, but with a different story.

Story and Gameplay are two key features of a game.

[Vladimir]

Huh?

Story is one of the most important things in games.

Do you watch films without a story, or just go "Ooooo pretty pictures".
Do you read books without a story, "I like words!".

Stories are what makes games good. What separates Halo from MW2, or Doom from Quake ? They are essentially the same game, but with a different story.

Story and Gameplay are two key features of a game.

Why pay $50 for a story?

[AggonyDuck]

Huh?

Story is one of the most important things in games.

Do you watch films without a story, or just go "Ooooo pretty pictures".
Do you read books without a story, "I like words!".

Stories are what makes games good. What separates Halo from MW2, or Doom from Quake ? They are essentially the same game, but with a different story.

Story and Gameplay are two key features of a game.

Stories are generally good only once. It is good gameplay that keeps you coming back for more. In the case of comparing DA:O with BG, I never finished a replay of the former due to the gameplay being repetitive, while I finished the latter game five times. And although the story of BG was great, it was the excellent squad-based combat, filled with tactical options, that kept me coming back for more.

[Meneldil]

Huh?

Story is one of the most important things in games.

Do you watch films without a story, or just go "Ooooo pretty pictures".
Do you read books without a story, "I like words!".

Stories are what makes games good. What separates Halo from MW2, or Doom from Quake ? They are essentially the same game, but with a different story.

Story and Gameplay are two key features of a game.

I beg to disagree here.
The Stalker series is awesome even though the plot is subpar. Total Annihilation was a superb RTS without any story. The same applies to a whole lot of other games: from Starcraft to Diablo, the Heroes of Might and Magic series, Icewind Dale, Left 4 Dead, etc etc.

While a good story can turn a decent game into a very good one (Bioshock comes to mind), many good games have terrible plots.

Actually, I'd go as far as saying that the recent turn of the gaming industry, which consists in selling 8-hours long interactive stories instead of real games, isn't really my cup of tea. Plot is overrated most of the time.

[Beskar]

I beg to disagree here.
The Stalker series is awesome even though the plot is subpar. Total Annihilation was a superb RTS without any story. The same applies to a whole lot of other games: from Starcraft to Diablo, the Heroes of Might and Magic series, Icewind Dale, Left 4 Dead, etc etc.

While a good story can turn a decent game into a very good one (Bioshock comes to mind), many good games have terrible plots.

Actually, I'd go as far as saying that the recent turn of the gaming industry, which consists in selling 8-hours long interactive stories instead of real games, isn't really my cup of tea. Plot is overrated most of the time.

Starcraft has Story. So does the Elder Scrolls series. Dragon Age. Mass Effect 1 & 2. Warcraft 3. Fable series. etc

Even then, immersion into an atmosphere is part of the 'story'. So even games like Left 4 Dead have limited story.

[Meneldil]

Immersion isn't story. We have no idea about what happened to L4D world, and we barely knew anything about the characters until the comic has been released.

Stalker's story sucks big time, yet the game is awesome.

As for the games you quoted, the only one that has a good story is Mass Effect. Elder Scroll is boring, Warcraft 3 and Starcraft are basically following the same uninspired plot (good guy turns bad, invades his former world, turns against his overlord, people who used to fight eachothers ally to kill said bad guy). I don't know about Fable.

My main point is that a game can be trully good depsite a crappy story. And some games with awesome plots end up poorly rated because of a subpar gameplay.

[Vladimir]

Stories are generally good only once. It is good gameplay that keeps you coming back for more. In the case of comparing DA:O with BG, I never finished a replay of the former due to the gameplay being repetitive, while I finished the latter game five times. And although the story of BG was great, it was the excellent squad-based combat, filled with tactical options, that kept me coming back for more.

Thank you for saying it more elequently than I could.

[rajpoot]

DA2 Podcast number 4.
Check this one out, because David Gaider gives some explanations.
Haven't heard the whole thing yet, but it seems that the framed narrative thing might actually be far more interesting than the Origin's deal. It's as if the player can arrange the different quests in different time periods of their life. Which means a lot more variation in the quests and characters, based on what the player did in the previous quests.

Edit:
Also in the podcast DG explains how player choices have an effect but are limited due to game design constraints. And he speaks about his views on player created fanfiction.....
IMO the best podcast till now.

And in what must be the first instance of its kind ever, a writer quotes a video game character :D

[Beskar]

Stories are generally good only once. It is good gameplay that keeps you coming back for more.

Why bother ever owning a book, DVD or watching films?

[AggonyDuck]

Why bother ever owning a book, DVD or watching films?

Because good books and films are more than just stories.

[rajpoot]

In your regular run-of-the-mill games, story really isn't a big factor...gameplay is what really matters.....shooting games etc have a very watered down and uninteresting story, but the gameplay is supposed to be good enough to pull people back.
In games like DAO however, story, IMO, is as important as gameplay. I know that I replayed the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest (one of the most tedious and dull dungeons in the entire game, I think) more than ten times with different Wardens and companions, just to find out what sort of questions the Guardian asked the various characters.

[Beskar]

Because good books and films are more than just stories.

They are not.

Let's take a good look, a film with a great story - Shawshank Redemption, loved the world over.
Clash of the Titans - it was a total fail of a movie.

And book fiction works are all about the story. You don't buy a book for its cover.

[johnhughthom]

And book fiction works are all about the story. You don't buy a book for its cover.

Not necessarily, a lot of books I enjoy because the quality of writing sucks me in, rather than the actual storyline. Prose in books could probably be equated with gameplay in games.

[AggonyDuck]

They are not.

Let's take a good look, a film with a great story - Shawshank Redemption, loved the world over.
Clash of the Titans - it was a total fail of a movie.

And book fiction works are all about the story. You don't buy a book for its cover.

The great works of fiction transcend the narrative. Take for example Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, the story itself is fairly simple, but Kundera's skillful use of different viewpoints to explore the philosophical dilemma presented at the start of the novel, makes it a book that will always be worth re-reading. Reading it is a process of self-discovery, a process of deepening our understanding of the human condition. Another good example is Samuel Beckett's play Waiting for Godot. The plot is minimalistic, yet it is open to a multitude of readings and what we make of the play changes as we do.

The plot is only a part of a bigger whole and it is the complete experience that we look at, when we are assessing whether we want to re-experience something. Shawshank Redemption has a great plot, but it is the great plot combined with other elements needed in film-making that makes it great. In fact a movie doesn't even need a good plot to be a great movie. A great example is Pulp Fiction. What makes it a great movie is Tarantino's style and dialogue, the non-linear narrative structure with differing viewpoints, excellent casting and acting and a great soundtrack. The plot itself is only the foundation on which all of the rest is built upon. It is only the foundation for greatness and even simplest of foundations can form the basis for the greatest of works, provided that it fulfills the condition of being a solid base to build upon.

[Beskar]

Story is more than the plot. It includes many elements people said already. It is the atmosphere, how it is told and presented.

[AggonyDuck]

Well it is clear that we have different definitions of story. You apparently see the whole experience as a story, while for me a story is essentially the same as a plot. Now comes the question, how do you separate gameplay and story, when story represents the whole experience? Doesn't that mean that gameplay is an intrinsic part of the story, an inseparable part of the presentation of the whole experience? If not, where do you draw the line on where presentation stops being a part of storytelling?

Just to highlight my point:

Say you're fighting the climactic final battle of a game, but the said battle feels like a chore as the combat consists of repeating the same combinations until the boss is dead. If a fight that should be the most thrilling battle of the game is just boring, doesn't that break the immersion and the atmosphere? Isn't it bad storytelling?