Multiculturalism is dead

[Fragony]

Times aren't tough, crisis is non-existant for the average German, no scapegoat needed. It's something else, people are tired of politicians blaming the weatherman for the existance of rain. Good. Bad part of it is that problems that used to be downplayed are now exegarated, it will pass. Europe is just recovering from the latest insanity.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Times aren't tough, crisis is non-existant for the average German, no scapegoat needed.

Win.

[miotas]

People are getting worked up over nothing. Even if the people who move there don't want to learn the local lingo, their kids will. Unless you want to chuck a North Korea, multicultural societies and integration are both unavoidable.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

"valuing diversity"

Some immigrant groups have nothing but admirable qualities. They should be admired for their admirable qualities. We should say "they are objectively good people". But when you 'value diversity" you aren't doing that. And the flipside is that when they aren't admirable, you are still "valuing diversity". It's wrong both ways. It's a phrase that's terribly weak in praise, and lacks the capacity for criticism.

If I was a composer, I'd want people to value my music because they liked the music itself, not because they valued diversity. That's a kind of parent/child "aw you did real good sweety" dynamic.

[al Roumi]

"valuing diversity"

Some immigrant groups have nothing but admirable qualities. They should be admired for their admirable qualities. We should say "they are objectively good people". But when you 'value diversity" you aren't doing that. And the flipside is that when they aren't admirable, you are still "valuing diversity". It's wrong both ways. It's a phrase that's terribly weak in praise, and lacks the capacity for criticism.

If I was a composer, I'd want people to value my music because they liked the music itself, not because they valued diversity. That's a kind of parent/child "aw you did real good sweety" dynamic.

Do you do anything other than complain about semantics?

[Vladimir]

Do you do anything other than complain about semantics?

I've never seen him make an anti-Jewish comment here.

[Fragony]

Do you do anything other than complain about semantics?

Yeah language means nothing, some of my best friends are . Saki is right imho it's patronising, preaching diversity is being the loving caretaker of one's private zoo.

[PanzerJaeger]

I have always hoped that Germany would return to a more normal stance regarding culture and integration before serious damage was done. The country has one of the richest - and most productive - cultures in the world; a culture that has produced many - dare I say, most - of the advancements in science, industry, art, and technology that occurred during the 19th and 20th centuries. 12 years of Nazism shouldn't erase that. It is perfectly acceptable for Germans to expect immigrants to learn the language and the cultural standards. Whether Merkel brought it up for political reasons or not, it is good for Germany that she broached the subject.

[Rhyfelwyr]

"valuing diversity"

Diversity can be a virtue in and of itself. For example, if you go on a holiday, you don't just visit your favourite place everyday, most poeple would rather do a mix of things. When compared with their favourite place/activity, they would never choose these other places/activities over it given a one-off choice to do one of them. But for the sake of some diversity/variety, they do the different activities which are on their own merits not as good as their favourite one.

Gah! Why do you have to make things so complicated? It is always you Sasaki!

[Husar]

It's pretty simple, because it's not.
A lot of the political discussion so far was either one of the two extremes, you're either pro or con, like the US two-party system, it's flawed and both options are bad.
There should be more options than "throw them all out" and "leave them all alone you naughty person", that is what we are seeing now I guess, there are bad people among immigrants, shock, horror and we don't want to import bad guys or people who only come to leech money, how surprising.
The other really, totally surprising thing is that this small shift is an atrocity for the one lunatic fringe and a big victory for the other lunatic fringe, who represent the extremes we had all the time and would like to keep/get their extreme. Now whether the government does anything and why is not as important as long as they finally do what a center lunatic like me thinks is right.

[Louis VI the Fat]

35% of Germans wish to expell all black ducks but they won't allow us oh no sirree they wont allow us we're stuck with those black anatidae in our midst forever

[gaelic cowboy]

I must protest to the Mods many of the people on the org may suffer from Anatidaephobia

[al Roumi]

"valuing diversity"

Perhaps I owe you a more substantive response, but I do think you are missing the point in railing against "diversity".

"Some immigrant groups have nothing but admirable qualities. They should be admired for their admirable qualities. We should say "they are objectively good people". But when you 'value diversity" you aren't doing that. And the flipside is that when they aren't admirable, you are still "valuing diversity". It's wrong both ways. It's a phrase that's terribly weak in praise, and lacks the capacity for criticism.

"Diversity", and valuing it is precisely not about productivity or worth and is certainly not a scoring chart for integration. It's just about not being a homogenous blob of society and taking pleasure in that.

[Furunculus]

it is not the governments job to enforce diversity on its citizens, which is what has happened in towns and cities up and down the land.

[al Roumi]

it is not the governments job to enforce diversity on its citizens, which is what has happened in towns and cities up and down the land.

Indeed not, how is it that the (presumably past) government has enforced diversity?

[Fragony]

Perhaps I owe you a more substantive response, but I do think you are missing the point in railing against "diversity".



"Diversity", and valuing it is precisely not about productivity or worth and is certainly not a scoring chart for integration. It's just about not being a homogenous blob of society and taking pleasure in that.

When done right, but 'wanting' diversity is a form of racism, the 'how good of you!' kind. Equality should be a given, a policy of diversity rules that out. People feel best when treated with respect.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

"Diversity", and valuing it is precisely not about productivity or worth and is certainly not a scoring chart for integration. It's just about not being a homogenous blob of society and taking pleasure in that.

I still don't quite get it though.

The sport I like is football. Other people in the world watch cricket and nascar and baseball etc. But I don't take pleasure in the fact that football isn't the only sport that everyone watches. I watch the olympics and the world cup, and I'm glad they exist because they are fun to watch. But there's never a moment when my happiness comes from being glad that there's diversity. Same with food, music, art...so I don't understand where that pleasure comes from for you. I like what I like, other people like what they like. There's also lots of cultural practices that I think we'd be better off if they died out. Generally people are always striving to change their own culture for the better. I don't think it's different for other cultures. If drinking too much soda is a negative aspect of american culture, then it's a negative aspect of mexican culture too.

I don't think any culture is a homogeneous blob either. There's many different kinds of people in the world.

Thirdly (I think), it seems to me that culture is something that comes into existence in response to a certain situation (like how companies will work to create a certain company culture). So non-western cultures becoming westernized seems perfectly natural.

And I think it goes without saying that it would be nice if society was a homogeneous blog regarding things like the equality of women.