EBNOM official discussion thread

[Finn MacCumhail]

No one is disputing whether or not it's "authentic". That's not the point. Tastes change, and I can quite easily call that aural assault a "cacophany", because that's what it is to my ears.

The music in EB presently is inspired by, but not slavishly aping ancient music. Its adapted to sound like something more appealing to modern listeners, as indeed one of the loading screens about the music says. That's entirely the point.

The Antikythera mechanism survived more than two millenia and is a fascinating piece of technology showing what was possible at the time. That doesn't make it a useful calculating device in the modern age, just an interesting novelty and historical artifact. The same is true of ancient music, nice to understand how things were, not necessarily appropriate in the modern age.

Why so serious? Turn the sound off, you know it is possible on both youtube and manualy on your computer, why everyone should know about you being assaulted by the authentic ancient Greek music?

I can't write music by myself by now (who knows what will be in the future?), that is why I used authentic ancient music. It also don't violates the copyright. So why not? You find it "cacophoni", and I am not. What next?

[Ludens]

actually, the music I used is traditional authentic Ancient Greek Delphic Paean music, written by ancient Greeks. And it is a part of world heredity. This music survived for more then 2 thousands years. Well, I can't understand how someone can call it "cacophany".

Supposing hardrock survives for two thousand years, don't you think people from the future will think it jarring too? Just because it's old, and culturally important, does not mean we have to like it.

I think it OK, by the way; but I don't think it will work as a soundtrack.

[Finn MacCumhail]

Supposing hardrock survives for two thousand years, don't you think people from the future will think it jarring too? Just because it's old, and culturally important, does not mean we have to like it.

I think it OK, by the way; but I don't think it will work as a soundtrack.

I would be pleased, if hardrock survived for 2 thousand years. Look at the Piramids - old and culturally important. But they have simple shape. Why everyone likes them?

And once again, the music is just a soundtrac to movie not to game. If someone shoked with the music, Greeks actualy listend, the information about hygiene, habits and so on would be kinda shoking too. But should we not speaking about them only because it doesn't suit our modern vievs?

[vartan]

As much as I can see how people's tastes change over time (duh!), I have to stick with Finn on this one. I'll be frank about it. If you hate the music of a game (think EB, for some of you people), you mute and start playing your stereo. You would never ask EB's dev team to integrate modern hits into EBII, so why would you do the same for EB:NOM? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but EB:NOM is just as much about teaching and representing history as EB herself was, albeit representing a later period. Hop off your high ground and come to terms. I take Finn's word when it comes to the fact that the music is a performance of an otherwise ancient piece of music. Also, although the video itself is but a slideshow, as a videographer I naturally respect Finn's efforts. Great job and keep it up. More power to the modders.

[Ludens]

Like I said, I don't particularly care about the music. It was the "troll" comment that I was reacting too.

[QuintusSertorius]

You would never ask EB's dev team to integrate modern hits into EBII, so why would you do the same for EB:NOM?

And no one is, what does this have to do with anything? As I said before, EB has good music, that's not "modern hits", just a modern take on ancient themes. You can make music with voice, drums and flute, in the style of ancient music, that sounds good to modern listeners. They achieved exactly that with EB.

I take Finn's word when it comes to the fact that the music is a performance of an otherwise ancient piece of music.

Which is completely irrelevant, because no one was disputing it's authenticity.

Like I said, I don't particularly care about the music. It was the "troll" comment that I was reacting too.

Precisely. I responded to being called a troll for having an opinion.

[Cute Wolf]

well, Finn has allready do a nice works with the preview videos, and the music is a good, authentic one.

it's not about personal tastes, it was all about history

[plutoboyz]

actually, I like the music. particularly at the "Dooo doooo dooo" part.

keep up the good work finn!

[gamegeek2]

Though, among Greek music of the time it doesn't seem the best. The real thing I had with it was how loud it was...I guess it was that way, though, but it dominated the video.

[vartan]

Though, among Greek music of the time it doesn't seem the best. The real thing I had with it was how loud it was...I guess it was that way, though, but it dominated the video.

With regards to that, I'd be surprised if Finn was an audio specialist! I suspect no audio correction done during editing!

[Lionheart]

Well i'm sticking with the team.
One of the motives i love EB is about history.
And i believe that if EB:NOM will try to kept the spirit of EB the history and the music are both equal parts in importance.
If they will put iron maiden or something like i will not disgust that however i prefer ancient music i believe that brings one more close to the game.
Also music is both important in culture and history. ANd one of the main motives that give life to EB is culture and history right?
So you may find some sounds strange. However if in the future our grandchieldren and other will also think about our music and will feel that is strange. However she is part of our history right?

[QuintusSertorius]

Well i'm sticking with the team.
One of the motives i love EB is about history.
And i believe that if EB:NOM will try to kept the spirit of EB the history and the music are both equal parts in importance.
If they will put iron maiden or something like i will not disgust that however i prefer ancient music i believe that brings one more close to the game.
Also music is both important in culture and history. ANd one of the main motives that give life to EB is culture and history right?
So you may find some sounds strange. However if in the future our grandchieldren and other will also think about our music and will feel that is strange. However she is part of our history right?

Can we end this ridiculous straw man about putting in Iron Maiden or some other modern music? No one has been saying that.

EB has music which is inspired by, but not actual ancient music. It is good. The music in that video is actual ancient music, it is not good. Hopefully it won't actually appear in NOM, making most of this discussion moot.

[anubis88]

Well, i'm not really sure what's going on in the music department, but i don't think this song will be used for the game. Especially since there were mainly negative responses here. However, you could help us there Quintus - we are after all, always looking for help.

Find some songs that you think would make fine additions to a late era EB mod.

[vartan]

Well, i'm not really sure what's going on in the music department[...]

If, as mod leader, one truly is unaware of happenings in a certain department, the least he/she could do is not reveal this fact! I see the debate as between choosing to implement: 1) ancient music, 2) modern renditions or 3) both.

[anubis88]

If, as mod leader, one truly is unaware of happenings in a certain department, the least he/she could do is not reveal this fact! I see the debate as between choosing to implement: 1) ancient music, 2) modern renditions or 3) both.

Well, i'm aware of what's going on, but i won't decide on this subject, since other guys are working with the music. This will be a large mod, and i trust the other team members. Besides, gamegeek2 is very active in that department, so there's no need for me to but my nose in

[Finn MacCumhail]

QuintusSertorius, don't you think, that there is no difference, if it is Iron Maiden or modern view on ancient music? both are modern and far from what was popular then. Movie 300 is a good example of how to attract people to the history, with a touch of "modernization" to make more people like it.

At least I am an artist, and that is how I see the concept of my video.

[anubis88]

Guys... We need some help here... We are in desperate need of modelers and skinners; while Finn and LDC do a great job, once RL things kick in and they don't have time to work, our work on the units stops...

So we really need new modelers and/or skinners...

Does anyone volounteer?

[QuintusSertorius]

QuintusSertorius, don't you think, that there is no difference, if it is Iron Maiden or modern view on ancient music? both are modern and far from what was popular then. Movie 300 is a good example of how to attract people to the history, with a touch of "modernization" to make more people like it.

At least I am an artist, and that is how I see the concept of my video.

There is an absolutely huge difference between the two. If you don't see any, then frankly I have to question whether you have any sense of perspective or proportion on the matter.

300 isn't a modern take on history, it's Frank Miller's spin on a single story with little regard to historicity at all. HBO/BBC's Rome is more like a modern take on history.

Why does NOM need new music? What's wrong with the music you already have in EB?

[Lionheart]

Quintus about the Iron Maiden stuff i was given an exemple.
I like the music in EB. However i still defend that we could do something diferent.
My point was that music is also part of history. Like poetry, histories, philosophy and so on. All this is history. A cultural history but history in the end.

And if EB tried and achieved follow history in some way we to shall do that.
I'm not against modern songs: perhaps for celtic factions you could add some modern celtic songs with traditional instruments or something like that. In that case the modern and the ancient complete themselves.

[Moros]

The discussion is a little irrelephant and keeps us from telling what a great effort the team has done with it's latest preview.

OT: I'm surprised on how modern the ancient music sounded. But anyway great effort guys and a nice vid, Finn.

[QuintusSertorius]

Quintus about the Iron Maiden stuff i was given an exemple.
I like the music in EB. However i still defend that we could do something diferent.
My point was that music is also part of history. Like poetry, histories, philosophy and so on. All this is history. A cultural history but history in the end.

And if EB tried and achieved follow history in some way we to shall do that.
I'm not against modern songs: perhaps for celtic factions you could add some modern celtic songs with traditional instruments or something like that. In that case the modern and the ancient complete themselves.

There are already crunch-points and difficulties in the team. Why add further pressure by seeking new music when there's already perfectly service-able stuff in EB right now?

I don't see the need for actual modern songs at all, and I've never been arguing for them.

[Ludens]

This discussion is turning hostile. Please drop it and go back to discussing the rest of the mod.

It's entirely up to the modding team to decide what kind of music they include. If you do not like their choice it takes only a minute or so to restore the EB soundtrack, so I don't see much point to continuing the argument.

[Rahwana]

This discussion is turning hostile. Please drop it and go back to discussing the rest of the mod.

actually, that was an interesting discussions... I don't see the point of hostilities

[Lionheart]

I agree in that one Ludens. Let's drop the discution.

If the team in NOM will add some new soundtrack with would be the players of the mod that will choose what they like.
As said before you can always restore the EB soundtracks so that's no point in pursuing this discution.

About the mod perhaps some new surprises will come shortly. The surprises are for a faction already previewed but i think you would like that guys. When something is ready i will put that in here.

[Rahl]

Is it already clear that you use BI? I didn't follow the thread all the time so I'm not sure if you already decided that.
The new units look great and the later period makes it really interesting so maybe I will get BI when the mod is out...

One request, though I think you will reject it, would you be so nice and upload the model and skins for the machairaphoroi unit? I really want such a unit for EB to include it for hellenic powers in the later part of the campaign but there's no model in EB I really can use for them. I may be able to edit skins on a very low level but moddeling is something I don't have the time to learn...

[anubis88]

Hey Rahl...

EB NOM will use BI, that's for certain. We have some ideas on how to use the new engine, and we will implement them in-game, so you'll have to buy it to play EB NOM. But i don't think it's very expensive; it's less then 5 euros in my country...

Unfortunatly i can't upload the model and skins :(. First of all, they are all wip, and second, it's a slippery slope to allow people to use your stuff before the mod is realeased. Unfortunatly you'll just have to wait till it's released. But it will be worth it, don't worry :)

[jirisys]

~Jirisys (2D Artist)

[vartan]

~Jirisys (2D Artist)

You misspelled Pontos.

[plutoboyz]

~Jirisys (2D Artist)

You misspelled Pontos.

pwned!!!

[jirisys]

~Jirisys (2D Artist)

You misspelled Pontos.

pwned!!!

Βασίλειον του Πόντου - The kingdom of Pontus

The great Kingdom of Pontus...

Choose a letter or gt*o

Be less ambiguous and decide the ******* name

~Jirisys (De-Pwnd)