'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Repealed

**Vuk** · 12-19-2010, 23:19

Originally Posted by miotas

Despite your claiming to know "plenty of gay dudes" I'm not sure that you actually have met many gay people. Most don't "act gay" they are just normal people with different sexual preference to straight people, they don't go around hitting on anything with three legs. You my friend are the one stereotyping here. Segregating the gays is a silly idea.

On the original topic, I don't see why it should take months to "implement" a new "policy". They simply have to stop doing something they do now, this is the exact opposite of somthing that would take time to implement.

Really? Then explain to me why I have seen gays hitting on straight men before, had gay guys hit on me, and why there are three guys in my Taiji class who regularly wear shirts with things like "QUEER! BITCH!" written on them? Yeah, they do 'act gay' around dudes. (ei, act like someone attracted to someone), just like straight guys act differently around pretty women (typically called "being a boy") than they do their male friends.

**HoreTore** · 12-19-2010, 23:35

There thousands of gays already in the army vuk,they are already taking showers with their straight buddies, and your soldiers doesn't seem to have any problems with that.

**PanzerJaeger** · 12-19-2010, 23:48

Originally Posted by Vuk

Really? Then explain to me why I have seen gays hitting on straight men before, had gay guys hit on me, and why there are three guys in my Taiji class who regularly wear shirts with things like "QUEER! BITCH!" written on them? Yeah, they do 'act gay' around dudes. (ei, act like someone attracted to someone), just like straight guys act differently around pretty women (typically called "being a boy") than they do their male friends.

This sounds made up, unless you mistakenly wandered into a gay bar one day. Even by your own account though, you have been hit on by multiple gay guys and survived the experience. What makes you think our soldiers cannot?

Anyway, being gay doesn't make one act a certain way, and the gay people you seem to be concerned with - the more effeminate ones - probably aren't going to be looking to join combat units.

**Vuk** · 12-20-2010, 00:19

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

This sounds made up, unless you mistakenly wandered into a gay bar one day. Even by your own account though, you have been hit on by multiple gay guys and survived the experience. What makes you think our soldiers cannot?

Anyway, being gay doesn't make one act a certain way, and the gay people you seem to be concerned with - the more effeminate ones - probably aren't going to be looking to join combat units.

No, it is not made up my NN friend. You obviously have never spent much time in Madison. Yes, of course you can survive it, but in situation in the military when people quite often have power over others, you do not think that it is a problem? Then why not have men and women bed together and shower together?

**Beskar** · 12-20-2010, 00:28

Do you know that the majority of those who express a strong dislike of homosexuals are actually ones having homosexual thoughts themselves? It is okay Vuk, you are safe here. No one here will think less of you if you wanted to be honest with yourself. we are a good natured, friendly, welcoming sort of people.

I remember a quote from a America soldier on the BBC news website about the issue, he said about some one who was known to be a homosexual in the unit, and said how he was the toughest b* word there (he said it in a complimentary fashion).

Also, I have no issue with men and women shower and bed together Starship Trooper style.

**Furunculus** · 12-20-2010, 15:54

Originally Posted by Beskar

I remember a quote from a America soldier on the BBC news website about the issue, he said about some one who was known to be a homosexual in the unit, and said how he was the toughest b* word there (he said it in a complimentary fashion).

Also, I have no issue with men and women shower and bed together Starship Trooper style.

agreed, it's the 21st century, we can get past this surely.

i'm with you brother!

**rory_20_uk** · 12-20-2010, 00:28

Oh, come on. Every job people have power over other people. That's no reason.

I'd be interested to see how many military personnel who had been in the Forces for years come out and have failed to mince to the range wearing a pink tutu and doing their nails instead of firing their gun.

**HoreTore** · 12-20-2010, 00:29

Men and women can't live together because it would cause sex. And officers are terrified of sex.

But as someone who isn't afraid of the sex, I have nothing against unisex showers. And just FYI, men and women share the same building in the Norwegian army, my room during my first 6 months was next to the females room, in fact... And during excercises we of course slept in the same tent.

And there's no chance of sex between a gay man and a straight man, so nothing to worry about for anyone.

**Vuk** · 12-20-2010, 01:37

Originally Posted by Beskar

Do you know that the majority of those who express a strong dislike of homosexuals are actually ones having homosexual thoughts themselves? It is okay Vuk, you are safe here. No one here will think less of you if you wanted to be honest with yourself. we are a good natured, friendly, welcoming sort of people.

I remember a quote from a America soldier on the BBC news website about the issue, he said about some one who was known to be a homosexual in the unit, and said how he was the toughest b* word there (he said it in a complimentary fashion).

Also, I have no issue with men and women shower and bed together Starship Trooper style.

lol, that is BS people say to scare people away from opposing such things as gay marriage, etc.
Of course Beskar, you are operating under the assumption that I have a strong dislike of homosexuals. That is not true at all. I have friends who are homosexual and I know people who I seriously dislike who are homosexual. It depends on the person, and not their sexual preferences.

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Men and women can't live together because it would cause sex. And officers are terrified of sex.

But as someone who isn't afraid of the sex, I have nothing against unisex showers. And just FYI, men and women share the same building in the Norwegian army, my room during my first 6 months was next to the females room, in fact... And during excercises we of course slept in the same tent.

And there's no chance of sex between a gay man and a straight man, so nothing to worry about for anyone.

No chance huh? That is like saying that there is no chance for a woman to have sex with a guy she is not interested in. The fact that she is not interested in him does not stop him from hitting on her and making her uncomfortable. Also, you are forgetting rape, which happens all too often by both straight and gay men. Women are uncomfortable is military settings because if their officer is a guy, they have control over them. Why would it be different with gay and straight men? Guess what, it has happened with the amount of gay men that are in the military now. It would happen even more so if more gays were in the military.
No, that is not to say that gays are rapists, but just like straight people, they have their rapists. Men and women do not bathe and sleep together in the Marines to try to cut down on rape and people's fear, because it is essential that people can trust each other. If that is wise, why would it not be wise to do with gays?

EDIT: And rape happens in the military (to men and women) a lot more than you would think. There have been some pretty disturbing statistics about that.

**miotas** · 12-20-2010, 03:16

Originally Posted by Vuk

Why would it be different with gay and straight men? Guess what, it has happened with the amount of gay men that are in the military now. It would happen even more so if more gays were in the military.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is going to happen now that sexual orientation is not an issue, more gay people wont magically start flocking to the military, it's just that the gay people who are already in the military wont have to live in constant fear of being unceremoniously kicked out.

**Devastatin Dave** · 12-20-2010, 06:12

Thank God I'm out of the Air Force. It was hard enough competing with women and minorities for promotion when they needed to fill quotas, now you'll have to compete with the weighted "homo" index. Good luck on the social experimentation with the world's greatest modern army. Its not bad enough having to deal with the women, now you have a whole other group of sensitive humans you're going to have to deal with. Can't wait for when they'll demand base housing for them and their butt buddies. maybe they can make a Barney Frank bath house out of one. Yipee...
This is going to turn out bad. A large portion of combat troops already said that they would not reenlist after this ruling, now will have to see if recruiting from beauty salons, bath houses, and drama troops will make up those numbers.

**Vladimir** · 12-22-2010, 22:07

So, this is what I posted elsewhere.

I'm glad because:

1. Better uniforms: Do you think any self-respecting gay man would wear the pukesuit?

2. Better drill and ceremony: In amazing uniforms.

3. Cleaner barracks.

4. Fewer gay jokes and male groping.

5. Strike fear into the heart of the infidel: Our current enemy fears teh gays (but bisexuality is OK).

6. Less competition over the scarce female resource: The military caps out at a certain strength, thereby increasing my odds.

Ironically, it may result in a less gay military.

Good point Lemur.

My favorite political cartoon on the issue:

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**Quid** · 12-23-2010, 09:42

Originally Posted by miotas

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is going to happen now that sexual orientation is not an issue, more gay people wont magically start flocking to the military, it's just that the gay people who are already in the military wont have to live in constant fear of being unceremoniously kicked out.

Entirely agree. I think that gay men who wanted to join the military have already done so (and will continue to do so). The only thing that has changed is the fact that they can now openly do so. There won't be a sudden influx of gay men (and presumably women). It really is a non-issue. I have served for 12 years in the personal reserves in Switzerland and I don't recall a single time this even became an issue. Now of course, I never actually served in a war zone but I do not believe that someone being gay would be one of the priorities then.

Quid