Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

I CAN'T TAKE THESE WALLS OF TEXT ANYMOAR Edition

Day Sixteen- The beginning of the end

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Going by the "No ordinary Jedi should be that strong" logic, Va'ard Kypaz is the Sith Lord. Granted, the battle isn't as descript, so it's hard to tell if he was beating them as strongly as Kagemusha was beating them. Plus, it's certainly possible that a Jedi could have taken some combination of actions to survive that, but I find that a little unlikely. Also, looking at the write-ups, he/she promoted to Knight on Night 8, which makes them one of the original Initiates, and thus less likely to have enough abilities right now to withstand that, when most other Jedi by this point haven't even been able to beat two attackers at once.

Going by the number of attacks, there are currently 8 who are either Dark Jedi or Vigilantes. Going by the battle description, The Sith Lord attacked Ignoramus, as that attacker appeared to have far more powerful abilities than anyone else, and one of the Lightning users was the apprentice.

The logic doesn't hold up. Masters can deflect several attacks if they are similar.

If you can deflect lightning tier II, then tier I is also meaningless. Being good with sabers or choosing the right form and having the proper boosts also makes you nigh-indestructible with the saber.

Force Lightning and Force Energy are also similar style attacks with similar weaknesses.

May Warman reveal who he attacked? That is the person who should hang as he was fighting in Juyo.

Also bad logic.

Town should be aware by now that Jedi can learn Juyo. Sith won't necessarily fight in Juyo. In fact, I don't think any of them ever have, that I can recall.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053235115

Tincow, your first mistake was trying to analyze ACIN.

ACIN does not play according to the prescribed norms, and in fact tries to undermine the town as a townie.

As such, he's not a good townie except by accident. Forgive me for saying so, but he will admit he's trying to hurt the town.

So, analysis of his behavior will fail because you're analyzing him with the assumption that he's trying to help you if he's townie.

In fact, one might believe ACIN would act more like a proper townie, if he cares about his mafia partner's wishes, if he were actually mafia.

If he ever starts acting like a townie should, he might be mafia.

Then again, he is ACIN. Maybe he decides he wants to play normally one time just to mess with you. *shrug*

I'm not sure on ACIN. But I admit, his playing style is rather hard to read.

Beefy's got it. You can't read him.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053235125

ACIN's heroic defense, which confesses his not-so-heroic actions.

Doesn't do him any favors.

You certainly have a unique way of defending yourself ACIN, I'll give you that.

Unique is what he is. He's exceptionally different.

That is why ACIN will defy analysis. You have to guess that he's mafia based on investigations or actions, or just flip a coin on him. That's the best you can do.

I don't think he should always be lynched. But if you are going to lynch him, do it early, because you're probably never going to have any reason to lynch him beyond the fact that he's ACIN and he's still alive.

Late lynches should be saved for those you can analyze, and I don't think ACIN fits the pattern of a player who you can draw conclusions based off of behavior.

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather we didn't lynch anyone, but that isnt an option.

Ask someone with force breath to volunteer. That's perhaps its only positive use, besides giving an important townie another night to do their work.

I understand that belittling yourself is part of your chosen defense, but I do want you to know that when I re-read your posts I thought your strategy was brilliant. I don't think I've ever seen anyone simply boast about their role like you did, and the sheer audacity of it is breath-taking. Even if you end up losing this game, I do want to congratulate you on one of the boldest mafia strategies I have ever seen. It was a clever and well-executed plan.

ACIN might deliver a joker-style soliloquy here.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just... do things. The Sith have plans, the Jedi have plans, even Dark Jedi have plans. You know, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are. So, when I say that you and your fellow Jedi was nothing personal, you know that I'm telling the truth. It's the schemers that put you where you are. You were a schemer, you had plans, and look where that got you. I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this ship with a lightsaber and a couple of force powers. Hmmm? You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a rebel soldier will get murdered, or a freighter full of stormtroopers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan." But when I say that one little old Jedi will die, well then everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!"

That's ACIN. He's not a schemer. He's an agent of chaos.

Chaotix's use of Juyo is interesting, but given the mechanics of this game it is pretty weak to vote on abilities alone, particularly when Chaotix is already claiming Dark Jedi. In any case, the person who attacked Ignoramus is clearly the Sith Master. That person used two separate abilities in the attack, which means they could not have pulled off a second attack on the same night. Since Chaotix is seen attacking with the trio, he cannot be the Sith Master. Chaotix could well be the Apprentice, but we need to kill the Master first. So, even if you are right about Chaotix being Sith, you have the order mixed up. Lynch ACIN first, then kill Chaotix at night.

Is it really the confessed Dark Jedi you need to worry about, though?

In the Star Wars game hosted by Zack at TWC, I knew of like 3 neutral players. They are a pain in the endgame, but if I knew they were neutral, I also knew they weren't mafia.

As such, I was able to narrow down who was mafia.

Chaotix has a pattern of night behavior which proves he is not the starting Sith Lord, and he can probably also prove he's busy on nights where Renata was acting Sithy.

Chaotix is a bad lynch unless Renata dies. Then he's a somewhat obvious Sith Apprentice candidate. Even so, removing the master removes Chaotix as a threat, because the Sith Apprentice can't recruit him.

The Sith Lord is the only lynch that matters. Remember, you guys found out through the holocron, that it needed to be this way:

Dark Lord of the Sith must be lynched.
Sith Lord must be lynched.
Apprentice must be lynched.

In that order, or else they can just be revived or recruited again. You guys know this, but you forgot. Chaotix is the least of your concerns at the moment. He might have been a fine choice instead of killing a normal jedi one of the early rounds, but now you need to kill the sith, and killing him isn't killing sith.

He's also for some reason dedicated to wiping out the sith, even though he's neutral. He's roleplaying his character well.

So if the sith master used two abilities and a bunch of people were vigging, we have a short list of possibles? What's the list?

Seriously, this should have been looked at.

This was critical. You could have determined who the Sith Master was through process of elimination.

That's what the lightsaber colors appearing in the writeup were for. That's your best investigative tool of all.

I was truthful when I said "saber colors don't mean anything, except red always means Sith."

It doesn't matter what color they are, just that they appear in the writeup. If you can prove, through your saber color, that you were in the writeup doing something while the sith master was busy, you're not the sith master.

This could have been solved by spreadsheet by now. Just a little bit of cluedo style process of elimination.

Kudos to Sasaki for pointing this out. Sad no one tried it.

Sorry about the double post.

Vote: ACIN

No sense keeping him alive if he wants to be a Sith.

I agree. But, you could have used his golden lightsaber to prove he wasn't a Sith. Therefore, he was a provably bad lynch.

Lynch him later, when you think he could possibly BE a Sith. He might accidentally vig Renata on his crazy killing sprees and prove that she's using cloak again. That's clues.

Sith are far more dangerous than ACIN.

Well, whether tincow is right or wrong, unvote, vote:ACIN is probably the best choice at this time.
If he is killing jedi and wants to be a sith, we want him dead, whatever his real identity is.

It's just a matter of priorities.

You want the Sith Master dead.
Short of that, you want the apprentice known, and blocked every night until the Master dies.
Short of that, lynch a suspect with force breath.
Short of that, you can lynch jedi on the dark side of the force, starting with ACIN.

He was the fourth best lynch. You could have done better.

Basically sums up my thoughts too. He's said that he's actively trying to mess up town efforts, that's not a good thing at all.

vote: acin


The problem is that Double A is a replacement player, and usually they don't have any role. Now that's not to say it isn't impossible for him to be Sith, but I don't see it as likely that he could be anything more than the apprentice. The way you've put it makes me think he is the apprentice, how does his being a replacement correlate with Ironsides's death?

Psychonaut hasn't raised any red flags with his posts basically all game. Even after he matched the description of someone who was "too powerful" in one of the writeups. No one followed up on him because he's successfully hiding in the town's blind spot perfectly.

Kagemusha is a great player, but I do believe Psychonaut has him beat hands-down in this regard.

Three things, some important, some not:

1. People need time to discuss things besides who gets lynched.
2. Not everyone has had a chance to speak yet
3. I am far too lazy to end the round mid-way today after the last 48 hours of fun.

People should have been discussing what to do for the night phase, proposing theories on how to solve the game with the available actions.

People were moving as one and voting as one, but unfortunately, they were also thinking as one.

That's not good. There needs to be ideas generated, plans considered. Otherwise it's all on the shoulders of someone who might just pick randomly and not give it a second thought.

You needed this vital time to discuss and solve. It was solvable here, but the opportunity was blown, as far as I can tell.

If anything loses the game, it is the lack of effort in solving the mystery through all available tools.

Granted, some people tried hard to solve things based on behavior. But you had other tools.

A good game, but Sith did play better than the Jedi.




Anyways, nothing else of consequence happens, in my opinion.

ACIN is lynched. One less Jedi vote, but one less potential death by a psychotic, murderous townie for his own amusement I suppose.

At this point it is officially crunch time. You needed to have removed Psychonaut's force breath by now. He's far too dangerous to be left alive.

Night Sixteen- The Fall of the Order

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night chatting is enabled. You need it.

As before, follow these actions. If you do not, we can assume you are not aiming for a town victory, and therefore are an enemy of the town.

If you can protect, protect Ig. If you can't protect, investigate Khazaar. If you can do neither, do nothing.

Obviously defending yourself is allowed, but do no other night actions.

If you investigate khazaar, send me the result you get. Do not tell others what you get, as I will be cross-referencing results I receive.

This plan of action removes half the tools the jedi had at their disposal, which included drain knowledge which is a way to prove you were doing something with one of your slots, and using lightsabers against someone who had force push or force wave, which is a way you can prove you were doing something with one of your slots. When the Sith use two slots, you have proven you aren't that Sith this way.

Telling the Sith who you're investigating and defending is also bad.

They doubled up their attacks on Igno for maximum damage.

pever was trying, and it had its charms, but this plan allowed a crucial victory to happen for the Sith.

You would have been better off acting randomly. Just sheer luck could have helped you out of this mess, by hitting Renata or Psycho who were using cloak and trance. Drain a Sith Power. Prove your innocence.

All these opportunities were lost here, on a game-critical round.

Can't fault pever for coming up with a game plan. Every other townie could have proposed a better one.

Don't be hard on pever. It is every townie's fault, not just his. At least he was showing leadership. It was the wrong track to take, but it was effort nonetheless.

Even dropping the vig kills didn't warrant dropping other powers from the equation.

Day Seventeen- The death spiral

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I WANT CSARGO'S BLOOD

This is pretty much the entire case on Csargo. You don't have much information on him, which is valid. Maybe should have investigated or vig killed him then.

Vote: Csargo. I mean... who else?

Indeed, who?

I am the new Grandmaster.

Csargo is a good choice. I have absolutely no information on him.

Vote: Csargo

Renata can only be guilty if the Sith are capable of attacking with an alt-color lightsaber. I won't rule that out, but I think it's less likely. If it weren't for that uncertainty, she would be a likely candidate to be the Sith.
The same applies for Psychonaut and Diamondeye.

Diana Abnoba, Double A, and Seon can consider themselves under significant suspicion. PM me if you have any evidence that could clear your name.

wideyedwanderer (N8) and Khazaar (N12) both appear to have been attacked by Sith, but it's possible they were hit by vigilantes with lightning instead. Gonna have to check that out again.

Nightbringer had better PM me his role, his lightsaber color, and his actions for at least the past five or so nights or else I'm going to consider him a prime suspect, too.

Finally, if anybody is a Dark Jedi, PM me and tell me. You are not under any greater suspicion than normal, but your actions for the next few nights need to be regulated. I will endeavor to keep you alive so that you can win if you will endeavor to help me find the Sith so that the rest of us can win, by following my orders.

OH YOU NEARLY HAD IT HERE.

Renata and Psychonaut "likely" to be Sith if the Sith can attack with alt-colored sabers.

Think of it this way: Jedi can attack with jedi sabers. They have that color. If a jedi is recruited by the sith, they still have their old sabers, as evidenced by Ironside.

Sith also have "jedi" sabers for defense. Obviously the Sith have alt-colored savers. The question is, can they attack with them? The answer was seen when you had Kagemusha in the writeups attacking people with double-blue sabers.

This was known already, or at least knowable.

Tonight was just more evidence that only the Sith can win through night actions. Don't attack, scatter, and we will buy ourselves enough time to figure this out. vote: Csargo for now.

Why not figure it out now, while everyone is here talking about it?

Please tell us why you are voting WeW. Anything can help!

I agree. A silent leader isn't being helpful here.

Csargo has slipped under the radar. There can't be any harm in getting rid of him.

Famous last words.

That felt slightly overpowered...

I personally think Nightbringer is the Apprentice for reasons that I discussed with pevergeen before my death. Since we need to get the Master first though, he is not a good vote. Csargo looks like a decent lynch to me.

What abilities the jedi had, as a team, were overpowered.

More than two healers for several rounds. Multiple vigilantes. Multiple people with multiple pro-town night actions. Proven innocent pro-town network who can't really be killed off and can vote. Write-ups containing enough information to solve the game through brute force. The ability to avoid bad lynches so you'd focus on night actions and solving the game through night actions. The Jedi Holocron revealing the powers and abilities and strengths and weaknesses of the game. Jedi learning Dark Side powers. Multiple roleblockers. Drain Knowledge. Force Meld.

This was a night where a Sith failed to kill anyone, and the other got two free kills plus one, when they could have had four successful attempts even without Force Meld causing additional deaths. And the risks of Force Meld were known, repeatedly in fact.

No, I disagree with Tincow here, what the Sith were able to do with Force Destruction was not overpowered.

It was known you can die using Meld. It was known that your protected person can also die. Logically, that meant there was an outcome where all three could die if a person had two defenders.

The Sith got lucky they never murdered each other. The Sith got lucky the grandmasters kept missing the necessary Force Far Sight power. The Sith got lucky that the first Sith Lord never got lynched. The Sith got lucky that dark side powers were never drained, and they were never roleblocked. The Sith got lucky that they found recruitable people in short order. The Sith got lucky that the Jedi ended up murdering themselves almost as often as the Sith murdered them.

The Sith got this far through an increasingly improbable series of fortunate events, and skill, and cunning. Town, on the other hand, missed many opportunities. And they too got lucky on occasion, but failed to capitalize.

I think a fair analysis of this game will conclude, as crazy as it was, it was indeed balanced.

If Chaotix killed Beskar, surely that means he's not the Sith Master. While I agree his statements about his role are scummy, I don't think we he have the time left to go after any target that is not the Sith Master.

Every round for the past several rounds, there have been known proven townies in the living column. Chaotix here is correctly ID'ed as not the Sith master, even though the reasoning falls into the WIFOM category.

More conclusive is: he was busy when the Sith were.

Why doesn't anybody just ask? The Sith are not required to use their red lightsabers. What color a person shows, on attack or defense, is largely irrelevant. Scans are largely irrelevant, at least in terms of finding the Sith Lord. But actions (taking them at all, that is, and being accountable for them) might not be. Can we get an account of what actions have been taken by everyone left in the game, please?

So far I have the following people as unlikely to be the Sith Lord, in rough order of certainty:
Chaotix -- attacked Beskar, etc
Diamondeye -- presumably attacked by Sith last night, frequent vig, bad investigations
me, Psychonaut -- present in vig attacks when the Sith Lord was busy
Diana Abnoba -- bad investigations
Seon -- looked weak when attacked (he told me who he is)

Khazaar claims attacks, but I don't know who attacked him.

And Csargo, Nightbringer, Double A, wideyedwanderer.

Please fill in the gaps and correct my bad assumptions if there are any. For now,

vote: Csargo

This is why Renata is so dangerous. She's like a sweet Siren, commanding your minds... leading you to your doom.

"me, psychonaut" = Freudian slip. Ouch, Renata, very ouch.

ATPG, thank you for that very informative publicly announcement regarding the dangers of an overloaded inbox. It has encouraged me to empty my own inbox of old messages. You should consider a career in the surgeon general's office.

I've been reporting my actions to the force ghosts.

There doesn't appear to be any case against Csargo except for that he "seems suspicious." I agree that he does, and he may be a good lynch. But with the game on the line here, I think it's important for me to share what information I have. I think Double A2 is a good lynch for the following reasons. Last night I used drain knowledge on him and I received Force Persuasion, a level IV investigation ability that senses if someone can be turned to the dark side. The whole game he has claimed to be uninterested, saying he's too busy playing video games to contribute much. He's hardly voted, yet he's been busy enough sending in night orders to acquire a level IV investigation ability. Something doesn't seem to add up here.

Unvote, Vote: Double A2.

Someone needs to be taking careful notes, and correcting these assumptions when they happen.

Really, every townie should be taking their own notes from their perspective. Investigation IV was already known to be a common, non-grandmaster power.

Csargo has a way of lurking to victory using short comedic posts. I think he is a pretty good lynch choice at this point.

Describes Csargo's typical behavior; so the lynch would be Csargo, for acting like Csargo.

I think we've been over this before. As odd as it seems, Investigation III is the GM-only ability and Investigation IV is just another random tier.

Half the time when I feel like saying something, Tincow says it for me.

I am Carnus Daye, Dark Blue, and the only thing I've done this entire game was kill Warman.

Now, let's look at the night writeup for that night.

I don't even remember what's there, so this is a real-time experiment I am doing.

What would I automatically do if I were a townie in this game?

I would check that writeup.

In that writeup, obvious Sith tries to attack Ignoramus, and fails to kill Ignoramus, Blackadder, or Tincow, proving all of them innocent.
You can see Bane Anded with his purple lightsaber being attacked.
You can see Frid Fefar with his double-blue sabers getting killed.
You can see Diamondeye with his emerald saber attacking Bip Kenner with his double-yellow saber.
You can see Va'ard Kypaz being attacked by three people, one of them has an emerald saber, the other has a dark blue saber. But, Csargo is claiming to have attacked Warman, who was All'uan Kraytous, and Renata will claim to have attacked Double A.
You can see Chain Lightning being used on Warman.
We also see chain lightning being used on Yaseikhaan, which no one claims credit for. This is another Sith attack.
You can also see a second assassin, attacking and killing Warman with a dark blue saber.

Csargo's story checks out that much.

So, does this prove Csargo isn't a Sith? No... but it does show he was doing what he said he was doing that night, and two other Sith attacks are accounted for. Interestingly, Renata is vig killing with her dark blue saber, so that leaves a hole where Csargo could have done it.

Bad luck there.

But suppose the Sith master had shown two attacks together in the writeup instead of two separate ones? You'd have been able to conclude that Csargo wasn't that Sith, and thus, more likely than others to not be Sith.

I wonder if anyone did this kind of check before continuing on.

At least 6 or 7 townies posted after this reveal, I don't think any of them thought to check to see if they could clear Csargo based on evidence.

Correct me if I am wrong. Did anyone else check?

The Dead Body of Mill Kunaay gets up as a zombie, and scratches "DOUBLE A IS SITH, PLZ LYNCH HIM?" on a wall somewhere, then returns to being dead.

The dead have all the time in the world to do such analysis. They don't have to worry about night actions or voting or responding to accusations. All they can do is think hard about who is guilty and who is innocent based on evidence and behavior.

They also don't have to worry about one suspect, they could analyze each remaining player and solve the game that way.



Csargo: (6) Seon, Chaotix, Cecil XIX, Nightbringer, Diamondeye, Renata

In the end, a quiet lynch of a quiet player who quietly protested his innocence. The main reason for this lynch: not much was known on Csargo.

He had force breath, so no lynch happened.

Meanwhile, Psychonaut and Renata go under the radar big time. The only person even considering them is the GM, Chaotix, and he's reluctant to go after them because he's thinking about lightsaber color.

I did warn ya not to focus on lightsaber color.... The only thing color can do is show up in the writeup as an identifying mark, along with your name if you're attacked.

Night Seventeen- The death spiral continues

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All right then. Here is the plan.

This is IMPORTANT for all players to read, as I am dictating your NIGHT ACTIONS.

Tonight, you are ALL to attack Double A.
You are all to use ONLY your LIGHTSABER.
You are to use TWO FORMS, so I can be sure you are not doing any other actions.
You are to PM ME the COLOR of your lightsaber and the FORMS you are using tonight. I don't care about the other forms you have, I want only the ones you are using tonight.

Everyone does this. There are no exceptions but Double A himself, and I suggest Double A refrain from doing anything or investigate if he thinks he will survive.

This way, in the write-up tomorrow, I will be able to tell exactly who followed the orders.

Anybody who doesn't follow orders is to be considered a Sith, as there will be no other explanation for any other kills. So, if you're not a Sith, follow the orders, otherwise the whole plan will fall apart. If you are a Sith, I couldn't care less because I will catch you either way.

If everybody follows the orders, I will know for certain that the Sith can use alt-color lightsabers, and I will know how to proceed. In addition, we will have prevented any night-kills except for the suspect Double A.
If the Sith disobey the orders, we will know for sure who they are.

Either way, we win. Do not fail me.

This does have merit in that they must use alt-colored sabers in order to disguise themselves if they don't want to be outed by brute force, and it also means that it will limit the number of attacks the Sith can do.

It is brilliant in some ways. Hopefully Double A can fight it off.

Sadly, you could use roleblocks, investigations, protections, and drains, but this mass vig attempt will also limit the effectiveness of the Jedi at night.

This plan also will not out any Sith unless Double A dies and is Sith, so therefore it does not out any Sith.

Hate to burst your bubble, but sith can perform 2 actions on 2 different people.

Are you suggesting they could perform 8 kills tonight? Am I misunderstanding?

You've been shown otherwise.

Two sets of two. Thats how high tier abilities/ranks work.

One set of two, for each Sith, yes. Two sets of two, for each Sith, no.

I support the Grandmaster's plan, and urge others to follow. Using two saber forms should equal two active abilities. Apologies to Double A if he's suspicious, but we have good reason to suspect him.

The plan is pretty sound. Shame it's on the wrong target.

Sorry I've been busy this past few days.
I don't think Double A is guilty. But others probably has better idea about it.

We should lynch Csargo again if there is tomorrow. Is Diana a bad candidate?

Everyone has missed Psychonaut.

Psychonaut has totally avoided suspicion basically this whole game, except for one round where he was attacked and kicked his attacker's hind ends.

Other than that, he's been flawless. No shame in losing to this guy, because you weren't even close. He earned it.

Is the main reason for not lynching Chaotix that he attacked a Sith Apprentice Night 1?

If so, food of thought: if Sith Master is allowed to attack his own Apprentice (or vice versa), then attacking my partner is exactly what I would do. Not N1, of course, because that would be too obvious. Then again, and I know I'm entering the domain of WIFOM here, that would be exactly what a very ballsy mafioso would do.

Anyway, somehow, following the lead of a Dark Side Jedi who was keen to kill on the first night, doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Had a change of heart - kill Chaotix!!!

I think this entry is pretty damning...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bane

It may be a coincidence, but I don't think so. We know that Chaotix has a purple sabre - so does Bane. His name is Bane Andred - maybe a coincidence, but unlikely. Also, when Chaotix approached me to form a vig group, he claimed he was the Bane of the Sith - his victory conditions were to eliminate the Sith, but at the same time he claimed to be Dark Jedi - a perfect cover for constant vig attacks. What is more - in all 15 of the Holocron entries there is no mention of the Bane of the Sith - the role Chaotix claims for himself.

Instead of everybody attack Double A tonight, everybody should attack Chaotix

This plan is pointless for the reason pevergreen gave. In my experience, late-game exuberance like the kind you exhibit here is the sign of a mafioso who believes they have the game locked down.

Andres also has a good point. How the did Chaotix know that Beskar was Sith on N1? No way he could know if he was a real vigilante. Which means it was a lucky guess. Which means he was picking a random target on N1. So, why didn't Chaotix continue with random killings after N1? If he had no problems with it N1, he shouldn't have had problems with it on N2. Indeed, he should have felt vindicated by his method and continued. But he didn't. Beskar was a very specific and defined target and Chaotix did not make random kills after Beskar, which means Chaotix targeted him for a non-random reason. Which means Chaotix knew Beskar was Sith on N1.

Yes, kill Chaotix tonight. Then lynch him when you fail. Anyone who can use Drain Knowledge should drain Chaotix, and specify Force Breath as the ability you want to pull.

All the town leadership is focusing on the red herring, the one who can prove he wasn't Sith for basically the whole game. But the Dark Side clouds EVERYTHING.... including their judgment.

Tincow's plan to attack Chaotix would have resulted in a bunch of people appearing in the writeup looking for him, and not finding him. It would probably have forced a lynch on Chaotix day 18 because of the cloak. Still likely to happen.

I have no solid proof but I think Chaotix is innocent.
Information I read said that we started with one dark jedi who has resistance against the Sith.
If thats the case, he is not the Sith Master we are after. We shouldn't kill Dark Jedis until we kill all the Siths.

And his picture looks like Luke Skywalker.

Beefy still shines like a diamond in the rough, even though he's missed Psychonaut completely.

No vigs.

Lynch csargo again.

Take it from there.

Csargo lynch bad, vigs didn't actually hurt the town here though. Double A survives as a proven innocent Force Ghost.

Can anyone solve the game based on the available data?


Chaotix- In writeup attacking twice.
Csargo- In writeup attacking twice.
Diana Abnoba
Nightbringer- In writeup attacking twice.
Psychonaut
Renata- In writeup attacking twice.
Seon- In writeup attacking twice.
wideyedwanderer- in writeup attacking once.

Diana also has the alibi of trying to heal Ignoramus last night. Not a very Sithy action.

Who does that leave? Psychonaut.

Come on, I know you guys can get this one.... even if you can't figure out between Diana and Psycho it is 50/50 coin flip....

Hmmm... that shows you attacked Rebel Jeb on N4 as well, which is... believable under those circumstances. I am also seeing your attacks on N1 and N4 along with two Sith attacks on both nights, as well as two Sith attacks on N3. N2 is hard to figure out, as there are two attacks but neither is clearly identifiable as Sith. Could possibly be a single Sith attack and perhaps one from Kage. I do believe the Sith started out with a single kill each, so that would seem to substantiate your alibi. I still have difficulty buying just how lucky you got on N1, but I will withdraw my FoS for now and ponder the situation some more.

Start thinking on Day 18, Tincow, I KNOW you especially can get this. You're too ruthlessly logical not to deduce it's either Diana or Psycho....

I've taken a good long look at the night actions from the first few nights, and the nature of the visible actions is such that I have difficultly believing that Chaotix could have pulled off a Sith attack on N1 and N4 in addition to his purple saber hits. Under those cricumstances, everything else that is scummy about Chaotix seems to be irrelevant, as he has an alibi.

I'm going to do my best to just keep my mouth shut from here on out, as I seem to be doing more harm than good when trying to find the Sith.

You were doing awesome, dude! Just clear your mind and focus. Use the force....

And done slaying the Finals dragon. People should be ignoring Chaotix, and attacking him. The sudden urgency in his posting can be tasted. Also, Kage, stop being unhelpful.

Tee hee... Chaotix is tantalizingly close to victory with either the Jedi or the Sith.

While I'm still suspicious of Chaotix, please follow his advice. If he is Sith it should be detectable.

He looks guilty as all heck with these dark side killing powers, but there's also an obvious sith running around killing Jedi, not coordinated with the town attacks. It also has destruction, which means it is probably the one that killed Ignoramus, not Chaotix.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself.

Ah, Renata. Sneaking under the radar so well.





And so, night ends, and we have 3 dead Jedi. At least they can't be turned into Sith Ghosts anymore.

Day Eighteen: A New Hope?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, that plan went real well...

Chaotix deserves to be lynched for that. It's fine if he's not Sith, because if he isn't the Sith deserve to win anyway.

Gah!

Okay, that's your first reaction. Sit on it and let it stew.... where's that big juicy brain I know you have. It's not like you to give up.

My guess is Chaotix.

Double A took quite a beating before he went down, there were a few moments there where I felt for sure that we had gotten a sith.

Jedi master at work, that's all.

It is hard to tell who is who since the town is killing each other.

I disagree. This is classic process of elimination, classical_hero!

Everyone can claim the saber and form they used. Narrow it down!

I disagree, although it will depend on Chaotix report. Here's what I see: Double A attacked Chaotix like he said he did. The Sith did not join in on the attack against Double A, instead going after their own targets. Everyone else followed the plan. Provided everyone who attacked Double A told Chaotix what attacks they were going to use, I'd things are going fine. Chaotix believed he could eliminite Sith candidates from this data and he has it.

YES!!! YES!!! The Chosen One gets it! To Xando Caecilius, you listen!

Go rookie go! Go rookie go! Rookie MVP of the world! Get em! Get em!

Maybe this is still just a shot in the dark but This far into the game and daina is still awfully quiet. perhaps that is a viable lynch.

She's one of the two viable lynches today. Eliminate her, she's a Force Ghost, and you know it's Psychonaut, so attack him tonight.

Preferred is lynch Psychonaut, though.

Looking at the Sith actions it appears that they both used two different attacks, so assuming they are allowed only two attacks total then they couldn't have been any of the attackers on Double A. It appears only three people didn't attack Double A, so the sith must be two of those three.

CRACK! SMASH! HIT IT OUT OF THE BALL PARK!!!

Come on Frozen, which one? Which one? Pick pick pick pick pick....

IMO, Chaotix just played you all. He's the Sith Master and has Force Breath. Even if you lynch him here, he'll surive and butcher several more of you tonight. If you then lynch him tomorrow, his apprentice will still be around and finish the rest of you off. Looks to me like he's got the game in the bag, and a rather well-deserved win as well. Killing his own apprentice on the first night was a bold move and he got away with it. A very decent victory, all considered.

Shake it off, I know you can do it.

Diana Abnoba must be Sith - why is she still alive? She's lurking big time, given a flimsy excuse, and gotten off scot free.

Except she hasn't gotten off scot-free, she got lynched already and is being mentioned as a suspect over and over again, the pressure slowly ramping up, and now she will be voted again, and her behavior hasn't changed.

She knows this strategy gets her killed, and if she were mafia she'd change it. But it's not a strategy, it's just life.

I agree.

Vote: Diana Abnoba.

Seriously, why didn't we try to lynch her again after she survived the last lynching?

I am not sure. But hey at least now she's got Force Ghost. *shrug*

vote: Diana Abnoba for now. She didn't start the game as an initiate, so she's a better lynch than Nightbringer.

Reasonable logic, but it works for Psychonaut too.

I don't concider WeW, Diana and Renata as likely sith lords I must admit.
That leaves at best 5 people I would be interested in giving a closer look; Chaotix, Nightbringer, Csargo, Seon and Psychonaut. . . And I am not so sure about psychonaut. . he has had an absense from this game which stands out quiet a bit.. and I don't expect that from the sith lord concidering how active both sith were after death... That would be less likely to happen if the sith lord weren't really paying attention to the game.

Of the two "real" suspects today, God Emperor doesn't think it is Diana.

What about the alternative, Psychonaut?

Man, he's good at this game. He's invisible.

I have not had time to fully analyze the write-up yet, but I can say that all players who PM'd me and said they were going to attack showed up.

I got no PM from Psychonaut AT ALL, and Diana Abnoba claimed she was not able to kill and would protect me- and clearly in the write-up, she did not. Evidently she was not expecting me to be attacked by Double A- and so even though I was wrong about you, Double A, you have been very helpful in your death.

All evidence points to Psychonaut and Diana Abnoba being the Sith, and as Psychonaut is higher in rank, I believe he is more likely to be the Master. I will continue to analyze the write-up and provide a full account of what I can be sure everyone did last night.

Vote: Psychonaut

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!!!

Townie MVP: Chaotix?

Diana claimed to be unable to attack? I find that to be totally bogus. Even I gained the ability to attack a few days back when I became a Master. (And I had never attacked anyone prior to last night.) Didn't she begin the game as a higher rank too? Correct me if I'm wrong, but all living players are Masters, and all Masters can attack.

Vote: Diana Abnoba

@Double A - Sorry. But you really didn't do yourself any favors by lurking.

Khazaar, where are you! You could refute this.... you weren't able to attack....

I am sorry you had to die. But in death you removed a suspect and have helped to narrow it down to who I believe with almost certainty the Sith are.

ATTENTION:

My previous post had the correct assumptions. Based on the previous night's write-up, including actions and players that died during the phase, I can rule out all players from being Sith except for Psychonaut, Diana Abnoba, and wideyedwanderer.

wideyedwanderer is a special case, as he claimed to have one one night action- and he only attacked with one Form in the write-up. I cannot tell for sure that the Sith attacks each used two night actions, but it seems likely since each one uses a "dark energy field" first. The field doesn't seem to be an attack, though... it could be an active defense of the Sith's. For that reason, and based on the taunts Ironside keeps making, there is something to suggest it is possible there is only one Sith who attacks two different people with one action every night. I deem that to be a slim possibility. Either way, it is likely that wideyedwanderer is innocent, even though I cannot prove it.

Psychonaut did not attack Double A last night, and he did not PM me at all, even when I asked for him plans.

Diana Abnoba PM'd me, saying she could not attack and that she would protect me. I suggested she also protect Diamondeye if possible. It is clear from the write-up she did not protect either of us.

Psychonaut and Diana Abnoba are the Sith. I cannot be sure which is the Master and which is the Apprentice, but Psychonaut's promotions came first, so he is slightly higher in rank and therefore more likely to be the Master.

PLEASE VOTE FOR PSYCHONAUT.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!!!

I'm not voting for Pyscho on the grounds that he'll get angry at me again if I cause his loss.

Well that's a silly reason.

I suppose we can go with Diana. They are both Sith, anyway.

She is a sure lynch because she lost her force breath (unless she got it again, somehow), and I can't really know that Psychonaut is the Master over her; for all we know she could be the Master.

There is only a problem if she turns out to be the Apprentice. Then Psychonaut can recruit one of you at random and we are back to square one. But that seems as likely as Diana being the Master and recruiting someone when we kill Psychonaut, and we can't even be sure Psychonaut will be lynched today, so...

Unvote, Vote: Diana Abnoba

Let's go with it.

The party begins at Sith headquarters. Where my Tincow at? Sasaki? Andres?

Regardless of whether Diana is the Master or the Apprentice, you should all vig Psycho tonight.

Unless she has Force Breath again. Then, for the love of the Force, Vig her. Vig her with fire.

And this time, don't bother to just attack with sabers, we already know who the Sith are. Use all means at your disposal to get rid of them. Destroy the Sith, you must.

Well.... your vig attack on Psychonaut has to get through his Force Trance power.

Good luck on that....

Sigurd is the sith lord, you need to kill Sigurd.

Indeed.

Hmmm, yes. Purge the lurker with fire. I'd far prefer to lose to an Infiltrate-Scum than to a Lurker-Scum, so kill off the more embarrassing option.

wait, did i actually say i was force focused... that is just wrong, it must have been a mistype, because I most definitely have never been force focused. you can ask pevergreen, I'm pretty sure I told him that a while ago.

double A, if you are so sure psycho is the master, please tell us why.

Yes, Double A, tell us.

As I have said before in thread, I am a healer. I can't stop an attack but can heal someone after. So at this last stage of the game I'm pretty worthless, because most of you have enough force powers to not be harmed or like in Iggy's case blown to pieces, to dust, and I can't heal dust. And to say again, just so you know, I started out at the bottom, and very slowly worked up in ranks. I maybe one of the only players that has not killed anyone this whole game, but I also know I haven't had the time to put into this game to really help, so I understand the the votes on me. I will tell you I don't have force breath anymore, so this lynch will go through, and I will see you guys on the other side. But please get Chaotix and Psychonaut tonight!!! Best of luck, to me it doesn't look good.

Vote: Chaotix

Et tu, Diana? You of all people should be voting for the Psychonaut.

I guess that job really did cut down on your note-taking. I know you'd be able to see, from reading the thread, that Chaotix was busy last night and that Psycho is the only other candidate besides you.

I know you're good enough to see it. I have faith in you.

But not to worry, basically everyone I have faith in has gotten fooled by the MASTER Sith berserker, Psycho-sigurd.

That post doesn't smell like scum to me. Just lynch Chaotix. He'll survive with Force Breath, but at least we can go down with our heads held high.

!!!!!

This post strikes me as uncharacteristically illogical of Tincow.

Diana or Psychonaut.... and if not Diana.... Chaotix?

And I am confuuuuused.

I don't think he is, if anything, he would be the apprentice.

FREAKIN VOTE FOR CHAOTIX. He is the Sith lord, I can't put this any plainer. He has surpassed a Sasaki WIFOM in scumminess.



I don't think Psycho is the master.

Well, town, you got beat. You got beat hard. You got beat hard, fair and square. No shame in it.

Psychonaut beat you all, he truly avoided your scum detection. And, even those I consider highly logical, good analytical people couldn't catch him in a situation I consider 50/50.

Therefore, Psychonaut is most deserving of the coming victory. It would take a miracle to stop him now.

Oh god. Congratulations sith.

Why diana over psychonaut?

Sasaki? Can you turn their heads?

Unless the sith apprentice could perform 2 night kills on the first night, chaotix CANNOT be the sith master. I think it is highly unlikely that the apprentice would start able to do this on night 1, and as NO ONE ELSE claimed to have killed Beskar, Chaotix IS NOT THE SITH MASTER.

As to whether we should target diana or psychonaut first. I say diana because she is less likely to have force breath at this point. Even if she is the apprentice and not the master we need to cut down on the night kills tonight. We can then all try to vig psychonaut tonight, and failing that lynch him.

That's right, Chaotix is not the Sith master.

Hey, you're at least talking about which of the two need to go first instead of assuming it must be Diana.

Congrats.

Agreed. Also, can anyone point to me an instance in the writeups where a Jedi's been saved by another's healing?

Amazingly, NO ONE has... very few people ever got it, and those who did didn't use it, and those who did failed because the attack was too powerful to heal.

More like; Is 'Force Healing' even confirmed as an ability? I had it in Sigurd's game but that means nothing in this one.

Legit question, but easily answered.

I can confirm there are healing powers, yes.

There ya go. Now, look at the writeups.... Diana tried to heal the Grandmasters. She failed, but SHE IS THERE!

SHE IS IN THE WRITEUPS TRYING TO HELP!!!

I mentioned before: there is a slim possibility that there is only the Sith master left, and that he has been killing two per night with one action each. If that is the case, it is almost certainly Psychonaut and not Diana.

So, while I believe Diana is likely Sith and I think she should be lynched, I am not infallible. I went by what the evidence from last night suggested, and it suggested that Psychonaut, Diana, and/or both of them were the only players capable of being the Sith.

Force Healing is a confirmed ability; it is in the Holocron and has several tiers. Actually, in the write-up when Ignoramus/An-wan Dyas died, there was a player who showed up afterwards but didn't do anything; this would fit with Diana's claimed story that she tried to use Force Healing on Ignoramus, but he was killed. If no one else will counter-claim that, then Diana is unlikely to be Sith. However, it should be noted that even if Diana did use Force Healing on Ignoramus, the Apprentice appeared only to use one action in attacking Diamondeye that night. It is possible that even if Diana has Force Healing, she is still a Sith and should not be dropped.

In that case, though, it seems clear that Diana would be the Apprentice and not the Master, though.

Unvote, Vote: Psychonaut

Please vote with me. Diana will be kept under close guard tonight.

PM me if you have a roleblocking ability or are a Dark Jedi.

YES!

Chaotix for MVP. He found it.

With 5 hours left, can the Grandmaster lead the Jedi to victory? CAN HE DO IT????

WILL THEY FOLLOW???

I have taken anybody wanting me dead as a rational argument based on fear and paranoia that I will betray all of you, or have done so already.

And I will reiterate: if I had betrayed the Jedi, you would all be dead already.

I could've picked Initiates and Padawans to kill every night and made sure that they succeeded, just to lower the town's numbers. Instead I picked powerful characters like Joooray, Psychonaut, and Kagemusha to go up against, because I didn't trust them.

I could've told you to sit tight and let the Sith kill you last night; I could've killed two players myself last night and coordinated with the Sith using Kagemusha so that they killed at least two more. Instead I concentrated everybody's actions on one player and monitored them closely, so that there was minimal chaos and we would have a good lynch today.

If I had betrayed you, it wouldn't even look like we stand a chance against the Sith at this point.

YES!

To Bane Anded you listen!

I take it back. Leave the neutrals alive, they seem to care more about their own death, enough that they'll try very hard to figure out who the mafia are, so you'll kill them, so they can win.

Neutral = Advanced townie.

This this this. I know it's hard to trust people in this game, but so what? The people who accuse Chaotix say the game is already lost, while Chaotix says we still have a chance. He's the one we need to be listening to.

Also:

I know for a fact this isn't true, you were promoted to Master the same day I was promoted to Knight. Still, there is your roleclaim and a general consensus that Psychonaut is a better lynch. unvote, vote: Psychonaut. Notice how's been quite since the fourteenth. And just look at this quote I find of him defending Diana:

She did start out at the bottom, but she got promoted faster than you due to deaths of superiors.



Still, excellent vote switch.

Won't matter, Psycho and Renata can easily make sure that Psycho doesn't get lynched.

Agreed. If Chaotix is Sith and he wins, he completely deserves it.

Also, I repeat the argument I made a week or two ago: If the Sith Master can become the Jedi GM, this game is broken.

Why's that?

Ok then Chaotix. Your on

Unvote, Vote: psychonaut

Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.

You once thought of me
As a jedi knight on a ship.
Now you know how happy I can be.
Oh, and our good times start and end
Without republic credits to spend.
But how much, baby, do we really need.

Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.
Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.

[Instrumental interlude]

Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.
[Repeat and fade]

Diana Abnoba: (4) Seon, WEW, Nightbringer, Khazaar,

Psychonaut: (3) Chaotix, Cecil, Beefy

Chaotix: (3) pevergreen Double A, Diana



Tally, correct if you see errors.

Still not looking good. If I know Diana, she won't be on to save herself. She's done for.

Deja Vu.

Sort of.

Unvote, Vote: Psychonaut

No anger this time, ok?

Darth Vader getting attacked by the Millennium Falcon: "WHAT???"

unvote, vote:psychonaut

You gotta be kidding me!

Wolf O'Donnell: "NO WAY!!! I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!"



Psychonaut: (5) Chaotix, Cecil, Beefy pevergreen, Nightbringer

Diana Abnoba: (3) Seon, WEW, Khazaar,

Chaotix: (2) Double A, Diana


Holy poop on a stick! 2 hours to go....


I predict a tie will happen though. Kage, Renata, and Psycho can force it up three, and Diana's vote switch would make it 6-6.

I also don't see Double A or Khazaar or Seon or WEW moving their vote. Typically they vote once a round.

But we shall see.

Out of town posting fromphone. Yes vote forguy who had no internet acess for most week. Veryw well played chaotiz.

FLINCH? Wow....

I think that's the first bad move I've seen from Psychonaut all game...

That would have changed my mind about him. Posting from your phone is Subotan Syndrome!

Convenient that you show up to post as soon as the lynch swings in your direction.

Out of town or not, you are obviously still reading this thread.

Can you feel the dark aura in the air? Oooh my.

Lynch Psychonaut. Then our victory shall be completed.

Ironside, you didn't have to come in to save Chaotix's bacon. It was an WIFOM, the idea was, I say that and they won't lynch him and it worked. Because of it, we attracted more attention away from Chaotix.

This feels very flinchy too.

Everything was going fine until Psycho got some pressure. Not enough to guarantee a lynch, either.

Still, Psycho is going to rip this town asunder tonight. Seriously. Sith are going to go nuts killing people.

This is gonna be tight. There's definitely going to be a showdown.


_____________________


And with 3 minutes to go, Diana has not shown up. Teehee...

I called it.

You even sent me your duel preferences, Diana, couldn't switch your vote to play it safe too?

That's Diana. Busy IRL means BUSY IRL. Hahahaha.


Okay, let's see if the town's luck holds and they actually follow their fearless leader, the dark jedi who murders people to gain MAXIMUM POWA.

Private message from Chaotix:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Well, when you stack the odds in one direction, the choice is really quite easy.

Even if I were to be recruited by the Sith, I have found them and outed them to the town. Soon as they die and the game keeps going, the town knows to come after me. And they're already close to lynching me as it is.

And besides, I would let Beskar and Kagemusha take a win? After all that effort I spent killing them? Don't think so.

Don't think this means I am on the town's side, though. If I see my opportunity, I will not hesitate to crush them and take my total victory. Pity they are too weak to kill people and become Dark Jedi themselves to join me; I have no ill will against them, they are just in my way if they choose not to follow my path."

My reply:


The odds were actually stacked in the other direction, IMO.

See, Chaotix might be able to prove that Psychonaut or Diana is one of the Sith. But, he doesn't have to. He could, instead, help slaughter all the Jedi, let the Sith know he's recruitable (Kagemusha could pass along the message) and if a Sith dies, he just takes their place. Assuming he can keep the lynch off of himself for a round or two, he wins.

Even if he dies. That's the important thing.

If Chaotix becomes Sith, he can win with the Sith even in death.

He cannot become a light-side Jedi at this point. His death is ALWAYS going to be failure for him if he doesn't get recruited by the Sith.

His calculation result comes up different from mine. There is no downside to going Dark Side Enlightenment, and there are upsides.

But, he's playing his character. And this is a valid way to play, too.

See: Me in Capo III. I could have gone evil, but I chose to side with who? The town. Yep, I said it again, I said Capo III again, I know I did, go ahead and call me on it.

Maybe it is worth it to stick with the side you chose. It makes people feel like they can trust you after putting faith in you and seeing your hard work together pay off. Switching sides at the end might be effective in the short term, but such a reputation comes back and bites you.

Not mentioning any names. You know who you are.

Night Eighteen- The Fall of the Sith

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Could someone tell me why we didn't vote out Diana? At least we know she doesn't have Force Breath. And going on your form you won't vote for Psychonaught tomorrow night, so this lynch will be wasted.

I admit, Diana isn't doing herself any favors. She does look like she's a Sith Apprentice right about now. She kept voting for Chaotix and didn't vote for Psycho.

Then her night actions tonight, trying to kill Nightbringer, only make her look worse. And, she's using a dark side power. Saved her life, but now she's a Dark jedi and a distraction. A vital distraction for the Sith.

LOL, epic fail on our part. We couldn't even lynch off some one who was lurking/inactive and even forgot to vote.

Crud. I thought Psychonaut was a gonner.

Oh Beskar, the WIFOM, the WIFOM.... it just reeks of nervousness.

Alright, go mass-attack Psycho, and then lynch Diana tomorrow. Game over, Sith. You fought well, but we is victorious. :D

If only it were that straightforward. Renata has avoided your suspicion like a master ninja.

...

Damn you and your infallible reasoning!

Fine, but if you're Sith, I swear on Beefy's life, I will call you a meaniepants.

Chaotix defends himself quite heroically, against some of the most trusted townies in the game.

This is not an easy task, but he does it. And it's freaking Chaotix, a guy I wouldn't trust if he was on MY team.

I will send you all directions individually in the morning. It is important that the Sith not know exactly what we are planning.

If there is anybody who has a roleblock ability, they should contact me ASAP.

Only issue is RL could cause people to not send in orders. They're going to find out when you tell them what they're doing anyway.

Might as well tell them immediately.

Force Breath is the worst ability ever.

It's an annoying little bugger, ain't it?

It has spared far more townies than it has spared Sith, though. Important ones, too.

If you can stop the Sith's night attacks, by blocking the force breath person, you probably have a Sith. If not, you know they are probably innocent.

It can be useful, but like Force Meld, it is a double-edged sword and can be a hindrance as well.

Many things in this game have their dark sides, pardon the pun.

If you guys had lynched Diana I would have still been ranting six months from now, that is all.

LOL Renata makes the game entertaining for the game host.

Sticking up for Diana is so obvious, and yet, it's not what a townie should be doing. Diana is a suspect and there's no reason to defend her at all unless you give the reason which should almost clear her, which is her attempted defenses of Ignoramus when Iggy died, or her vig moves which have failed.

Defending her without those reasons implies perfect information. IMO defending her like this is a bad move, but no one capitalizes on it, and it makes me laugh, so instead, it's simply an unusual move with an exclamation point on the end.

Day Nineteen- The Jedi Sunset

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Diana fails to vig Nightbringer, Nightbringer and Csargo fail to vig Diana, and Chaotix n' friends fail to vig Psychonaut.

The Sith fail to destroy anyone, which is very disappointing. Psycho could have destroyed Seon, who was vulnerable because Psychonaut was not double-Moricho'ed.

Renata could have laid waste to the Jedi with her powers as well, instead they played too defensively and missed a golden opportunity.

But, the upside for them is that Renata is still a ninja. No one suspects her at all. She will be the final Dark Lord of the Sith, as she's been a Sith Lord for 4 nights now, and there's not enough time for her next apprentice to become a Sith Lord, let alone Dark Lord.

Every Sith after Renata will be weak by comparison. She must survive.

Okay, here we go:

I'm assuming this is good?

Except for the three-assassin group. Double purple was definitely Chaotix.

Once again, I'm out of the loop. Oh well.

No Jedi deaths yesterday and last night is an amazingly good thing.

I roleblocked psyhonaut yesterday, and I can notice the sudden lack of Sith Lord killing.

vote: Psychonaut.

At last. Psychonaut ducks suspicion for 17 rounds, does enough damage to potentially propel the Sith to victory.

Jedi finally catch him when there's only 1 besides Chaotix who can't be converted.

Their only mistake was not killing Chaotix sooner.

Here's what I did last night:

[snio]

Vote: Psychonaut

Oh, and nobody died. I'd say that's not half bad.

A decent plan, but you got Diana's lightsaber color wrong, she also has turquoise.

You are also now aware, through the holocron, how the healing and revitalize powers work, and you should be able to clear Diana of suspicion.

Also, I might add:

Both Diana and Psychonaut can be seen using Force Cloak during the write-up. Force Cloak is a Dark Side power; this means you can only get it if you have fallen to the Dark Side.

According to Diana, this should be impossible for her, since she claimed to be unable to attack at night. It would also be unlikely for Psychonaut, considering he only attacked once during the night, using only lightsabers, on Kagemusha, and it failed.

Evidence is overwhelming. I do believe we have caught the Sith for sure, now. If I had any doubts yesterday, they have been removed from my mind.

Csargo should be able to confirm that he's been getting dark side powers too.

Diana was already on the dark side to start, and she got lynched, which pushed her further in that direction.

There are many ways to gain dark side points.

Jedi can learn it.

Yes, pevergreen is correct.

They need to have at least 2 dark side points though. Lynching Diana is what caused that.

Interesting. Well done to all still alive. Psycho does indeed seem to be a good lynch.

Imagine if Renata had used 2 Sith Force powers last night. Psycho might have gotten away with it this round.

Well Psycho is going to die now, but Diana is probably going to get hit tonight and also die, and a Jedi will get converted most likely.

That leaves Chaotix, Renata, her Sith apprentice, and 3 Jedi, two of which are recruitable.

Chaotix and the Jedi need a lucky shot to put this one in the bag.

Night Nineteen- Twilight of Chaos

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Congratulations to everyone, this was truely a group victory. Chaotix came up with the plan, everyone followed their orders and, just like that, we've got the Sith Lord that's been plagueing us from the beginning of the game, Beskar and Ironside's master. Now we have a chance of victory tonight, provided we can kill the former apprentice and he/she can't find someone to recruit. Everyone, please continue to follow the Grandmaster's orders.

That's placing a lot of trust in the serial killer, who at this point is legitimately powerful enough to best your enemies but he's probably going to take you out as well.

To the living Jedi-

By now, several of you had the twin saber/force improved vision upgrades, which specifically states that you can use it to see through cloak, whilst twin saber allows simultaneously swinging your saber around like a big manly hero to cut down the evil Sith who like to hide with Cloak.

If you had gone off-script and decided to win the game for yourselves, by guessing correctly who the bad guy was, and hit Renata, the game would practically be over.

Not only that, Chaotix has the necessary detective power to put this game in the bag for the Jedi team and doesn't use it. Why? Because he's not a Jedi, he's a Dark Jedi and he's more concerned with kill kill kill stabby stabby explodey to give two rancor droppings about investigating, because one removes a threat to him and the other gives him information and who needs that when everyone's death besides yours is the best outcome of all?

So, the Jedi team, basically everyone still alive who was still a Jedi, could have gone out that night and attempted to win the game for their team solo by doing a little think for themselves.

Yeah it's risky, and certainly could get you lynched if it doesn't work, and it could blow the game for you, I'm just saying it was an option and it could have led to Jedi victory, as bleak as the circumstances were at this point.

The way I designed this game, victory was always in the Jedi's hands. They always had control over their destiny. It might have been clouded by the dark side but they were still handed the controls and given the opportunity to point and shoot a sith dead. Once the Sith are dead Chaotix has no choice but to get down on his knees and accept an average victory because he's the only thing left that resembles a bad guy.

Ignoramus and Chaotix managed to do that (kill Sith dead), and all of these attempts were incredibly vital for their team's chances, in spite of the drawbacks of occasionally losing a comrade or an ally. Sith would have wasted their allies dead anyway, but there's one thing the Sith won't realistically do at this point which is kill Sith.

Zan Finnay and Bos Dhi Kao were also generally caught through examination of the night actions and vigilante results, which the Jedi had a heavy influence in making.

Renata still didn't have force breath and she was vulnerable to a good shot by someone with a saber and an ability to see through stealth. That's why those guys were in the game; Jedi guardians with the ability to vig kill and see through stealth. they basically suck in all other circumstances because saber defense doesn't usually help against mega-wizard hyper-death blastery and being exploded with a single thought by ridiculously overpowered magic. It also doesn't typically help you block or heal or drain anything, so it has but one purpose: Inflict stabby death on the Sith. Yeah, that might mean risking the game or falling to the Dark Side but there are worse things in this game than taking a chance.

The only one you can trust more than anyone else is yourself, even if you've been dead wrong all game long about anything and everything. That's why even if you ended up being wrong every round for 20 rounds you still have a chance to save the game through persistence. This game was designed to give you a stabby weapon and allow you to win if you swung it enough times. Or at least go out in a blaze of Jedi glory with the psshhhhhhh vwooooom vwooooom kish kish vwooooom and the killing and stabbing and the saber battling and the more saber battling and the all-powerful Force hoyvin-glavin!

I have investigated Diana with Investigation I and II at the same time the night I was killed and returned to the force. The result was the light side was not strong with this one which basically means dark side. Sadly the tier two investiation isn´t strong enough to differenciate between Sith and Dark Jedi. Nontheless I would think that this result doesn´t fit well with her defense, so lynching her can´t hurt.

Ordinarily good logic but "it can't hurt" stops being true when it does.

Still I can't blame anyone, the knowledge about her force healing alibi remained tightly in Dark Jedi control and Chaotix didn't use that knowledge to clear her. She was legitimately a suspect because she could have been recruited, yes. It made sense....

Unfortunately it made too much sense and was also not the right move. These things happen, the game can still be salvaged by any faction. Renata is exceedingly vulnerable.

It's only about 20,000 words if you take out all references to roundhouse kicks.

To be fair they also threw a lot of punches. But who wants to see Jedi fighting without the Force or Saber? It's a bunch of dorks pretending to be kickboxers at that point.

These were only necessary because the plot often required ending a battle in a non-lethal manner and Jedi fleeing all the time just didn't seem natural.



So Chaotix' plan goes off without a hitch, and Diana is thrown to the wolves and makes a good show of it before being sliced to bits and blown into oblivion.

Notice how Diana has force improved vision and the ability to attack with a saber; even here on her final night she could have personally defeated Renata herself as well, or at least exposed her.

I don't blame anyone for not doing it, just pointing out it was possible.

On to the final chance for the Jedi to put up a good fight.

Day Twenty- One minute before midnight

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The whole basis of killing people in the right order was that it was unlikely that recruitment could occur immediately following the death of the Sith Master. I do not think we need to worry about recruitment just yet.

You do, but that's because all light side Jedi have been eradicated besides Nightbringer, ironically enough, and Chaotix, who is only non-recruitable because he chose light side enlightenment. Not that the Sith ever seemed to consider recruiting him as far as I can remember. It was never really an option after Renata was recruited though.

It was possible for all the dark side Jedi to be wiped out leaving the final Apprentice utterly crippled at the end, but the light siders kept getting lynched and murdered, which kept the Sith faction in play.

I found that this reasoning was false a while ago.

Juyo 2/Double-bladed Lightsaber is only a lightsaber form and works just like any other form, except it is Dark Side. The ability that allows one to perform two different actions at night is called "Twin Sabers", though that does NOT give you two lightsabers. Either Niman 2 or Ataru 2 is needed for 2-lightsaber combat. The first form Diana used was Juyo 2, as evident in her defense as well. The second form was Makashi, and she was fighting Seon, who is the only other player with a Turquoise lightsaber.

Diana performed both attacks.

The Holocron plus being alive and using certain powers all the time gave Chaotix the best perspective on the game. He was a useful resource when he was worried about getting canned by the Jedi for being halfway evil and stuff.

The Sith did not attack Seon. Diana attacked Seon, as evident by the Turquoise lightsaber. She was Dark Jedi.

The Sith Apprentice, whoever it is, acted completely according to my instructions last night in order to blend in. He didn't need to attack, because he knew there would be at least one Jedi killed anyway. His best option for the rest of this game is to blend and hope I somehow miss him. However, my powers and process of elimination say I will kill him sooner or later.

A bit overconfident here but the underlying premise is good.

Alright, ATPG's latest reply convinces me I'm barking up the wrong tree and that Chaotix is correct that Diana did both attacks. So, no one should be cleared as a result of last night's attacks.

Going back to the day phase when Psychonaut was lynched the first time, it was a close run vote between him and Diana. Given how close that vote was, I find it unlikely that the Sith Apprentice would have voted for his own master right there. Of the living, Chaotix made the case that got Psycho lynched, and Nightbringer's vote untied it and got Psycho lynched. So, I doubt either Chaotix or Nightbringer are the Apprentice.

Of the remaining four, Seon and WEW voted for Diana, and Renata and Csargo did not vote. Of those four, Seon's posts are the most scummy in hindsight. After Chaotix made his case on Psycho, Seon was the only person who expressed active disbelief at the vote on Psycho. In that post, Seon says he thinks Diana is 100% Sith, but then the next night he roleblocks Psycho instead? That's not consistent. Looks like an attempt to use the death of the Sith Master as a way to 'clear' the Sith Apprentice.

It's also a bit odd that Seon was able to successfully roleblock the very powerful Sith Master, but failed to roleblock a far less powerful Dark Jedi Master. Seon may not even have the ability to roleblock at all, Psycho could have just refrained from killing to set up Seon as innocent.

Lynch Seon.

There's some good reasoning here, as it puts Renata back in play as a legitimate suspect.

Seon's actions are hard to explain, and like Diana, he makes for the perfect townie-attention-trap.

Truthfully, as much as I want to now, I cannot. I can only say that I tried roleblocking Diana Abnoba and drained away her Force Cloak. But as somebody pointed out, you only have my word to back me up. It all works so perfectly, you see, Chaotix. Of course Seon's guilty, he's the only one who didn't attack and wasn't shown in the writeup! And what would any Sith do in these night? Of course he would try and recruit somebody! That's what Seon was doing in the night. Because it works so perfectly, Chaotix, I am not even going to bother to defend myself. It's a perfect case, and the Sith totally deserves my death.

I knew it was coming when I realized Diana was innocent anyways.

Seon falls victim to most obvious suspect syndrome.

It's really hard to fight it once the town decides you are the obvious bad guy. Especially once they're confident after wiping out a Dark Lord of the Sith through similar obvious reasoning.

There's not much else to say, I mean what would you do here? There's no reason to suspect Renata or WEW over anyone else at this point, so why not go with what seems logical?

It's still possible for the Jedi to save the game, but now they're relying on Chaotix to not slay them in order for that to happen. Chaotix doesn't seem like the type to avoid pressing the kill button, especially after it has gotten him this far and Jedi nor Sith have really punished him for it.

For a Serial Killer, he sure does a really bad job of killing people.

Except several Jedi, several Sith, leading lynches on Jedi and Sith and even other Neutrals, and also climbing to the top of this pile of corpses to become Supreme Grandmaster and openly declaring his neutrality to the town and "you-can't-recruit-me"-ness to the Sith, basically waving a red flag at a pair of murderous bulls that says KILL ME but both teams are too busy killing each other to bother.

Besides, his victory condition doesn't even involve killing people; it involves surviving, and seeing at least one of the other factions get turned into a smoldering pile of skulls.

In that, he's done very well.

A SK doesn't have to kill anyone, he just has to be the last one standing.

See? Psycho's got it.

I have reliable information that there is currently one Sith, one Dark Jedi, one Jedi, and three Ewoks.

You do realize I am forced to do an all-Ewok ending now that will totally ruin the atmosphere?

Thanks a lot, TC.





Preview of Night Twenty:

Chaotix chooses Force Destruction on Renata, the one attack as far as I can tell that she can't block unless someone besides her uses Morichro on Chaotix. That means the Sith's best hopes go down the toilet tonight unless Chaotix ALSO dies, which is conceivable if Renata uses Morichro and one of her best attacks and WEW uses choke and scream on Chaotix. He can't survive all of that, which means he dies, Renata dies, and probably at least one townie dies to to the vigilantism that's about to happen, leaving 1 townie and 1 sith to be decided by the force ghosts, Jedi victory.

Or, the townie ends up falling neutral and then it becomes a possible joint solo victory and Sith victory for the remaining two people.

Or, Chaotix could change his mind.

Or, the Sith could wipe out everyone besides Chaotix and WEW and they could agree to share the victory.

Which makes me giggle because Chaotix can just say no and shoot them in the face.

Unless Chaotix dies, he wins here outright, I believe.


And rightly so. Sith and Jedi have had 20 rounds to get rid of him and he's been a known neutral vigilante with a lovely goal of simply getting rid of the competition and learning to use the Dark Side which has ended up killing both Jedi and Sith so both groups have had reason to knock him off this mortal coil but decided to keep him around because he's dark and brooding and goth and powerful and useful..... ah yes, just like Vader was very useful to the Emperor before he turned his back on him and then Vader quite literally "shafted" him by tossing him down a.... well you get the idea, let's not labor the joke.

Bane Anded is Darth Vader. Conflicted, sort-of-good, mostly evil, means well, but ends up destroying just about everything he ever loved just so he could become the most powerful Jedi ever and rule the galaxy as father and..... clone army I guess.

Only in this version, Vader looks like he's going to win. Good luck, galaxy!

Here, you fail to lynch WEW or Renata so that's all she wrote, really, regarding the town's chances, unless something extraordinary happens in the next 19 hours.



Edit: Nope. That's all she wrote.

Renata goes down to an unblockable attack (unblockable because she lacks the proper defense) and the Sith did not do an all-out assault on Chaotix. They are now at his mercy, and I don't figure Chaotix to be a guy who does the whole mercy thing.


And a Jedi goes down as well, leaving Chaotix, Nightbringer, and WEW. The Sith has no Force Ghost. Here, Chaotix can force a victory by making a pact with the Jedi, and then lynching WEW. But he doesn't have to settle, he could make a pact with the Sith, and score victory by double-teaming Nightbringer tonight.

But he doesn't have to do that either. If he is not lynched Day 21, there's nothing that can be done. Flawless victory.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nope, he chickened out to share any victory when he switched votes.

And we completely underestimated the power gain by the grandmaster. Explains how Chaotix changed from a low threat to a high threat so fast.


I take it that's a rough estimate ATPG?

Me having the same powergain as Renata, Kage with about 65 powers isn't on top?

It's a pretty rough estimate, yeah. Best I can do just by eyeballing it and spending 3 minutes in MS Paint.

Ooh, what was my power level relative to this chart?

It's under 9000!!!!



I will do another version of this power chart. Here's how to envision it, however:

1. If you started as a Jedi Initiate, you don't even show up on the graph until you're promoted to Padawan. Then you start at the very bottom. (0 increase per turn)
2. Padawans have a very, very shallow angle moving upward. The time you spend as a Padawan rarely adds much to your strength. Best you can hope for is 2-3 more powers. (0.5 increase per turn)
3. Knights/Sith Apprentices gain powers steadily, at a very shallow angle. (1 increase per turn)
4. Masters/Sith Lords gain powers twice as fast, at a steeper angle. (2 increase per turn)
5. Grandmasters/Dark Lords gain powers extremely fast, at a very steep angle. (5 increase per turn)
6. Dark Side Mastery + Jedi Grandmaster creates the steepest upward climb by far. (10 increase per turn)


Initiates stayed at zero until round 6, iirc.
Knights and Padawans got promoted by rounds 5-7 iirc.
Masters only promote on death of Grandmaster.
Being recruited by the Sith greatly increases your power level because you get an instant package of starting dark side attacks, conversions, and defenses, plus it generally increases your rank.
Dark Lord of the Sith dying promotes the Sith Lord if the Sith Lord has been such for 4 turns.
Promotion/death of Sith Lord promotes the Sith Apprentice, if the Apprentice has been such for 4 turns.

• Starting Initiates generally follow a curve similar to WEW's.
• Starting Padawans generally follow a curve similar to Renata's before she was recruited, and will have a superior curve than WEW.
• Starting Knights generally follow a curve similar to Chaotix's before he became grandmaster.
• Starting Masters got killed off rapidly, but they follow a curve similar to Chaotix's before he gained Dark Side Mastery, except much earlier on in the game. Sol Jade could have been at where Kagemusha was in terms of power by round 16 or 17.

[Ironside]

Were Morichro needed to defeat Chaotix last night?

Because the only 2 decent scenarios I could come up with were Storm+scream+choke on Chaotix and Maelstrom/cruch on Nightbringer, or Storm+Maelstrom/crush on Chaotix and scream+choke on Nightbringer. I don't think we ever would've figured out the need for Morichro like that.

Also, did non dark jedi knew about the dark mastery boost? A massive unknown and unexpected boost is quite dangerous. A big reason why we spared the vigis was that they were weak most of the game.

[Ignoramus]

Well played, Chaotix. I should have listened to pever that you were playing your own game.

Nice write-ups ATPG - and I'm very glad that you didn't close down the game!!

[Nightbringer]

Well played, Chaotix. I should have listened to pever that you were playing your own game.

Nice write-ups ATPG - and I'm very glad that you didn't close down the game!!

Hey, he hasn't won yet!

Quite...

[Greyblades]

Gah, the only time I acted like a townie was when I'm being stupid? Man, I realy am bad at this game.

[Diamondeye]

Just came back from X-Mas business to read this. I must say, Chaotix, well played! Also; Neat that all the people I pointed at (Kage, Psycho, Renata) ended up dying as Sith.

Also, ATPG, @ This comment:

As Sasaki has done in the past (like claiming detective in an early mafia game, to keep the real detective safe) Sasaki makes himself a target on purpose, because his original role was basically a worthless Initiate. Potentially powerful, but presently powerless.

A smart tactic, as it predictably fools the Sith, and these are good players. I honestly don't know why ANYONE believes a word Sasaki says, ever. I really hope that I would have scoffed at this claim, I tend to think he's always lying to me for some purpose, or even for no purpose. I think he just likes it, frankly. And frankly, I do this kind of stuff all the time too, so... I understand it.

This is a game of information and misinformation. Townies should really take their cues from Sasaki on this stuff; I certainly have. I outright admit to lying all the time as a townie. It makes blending in as mafia easier too, if you're ever caught lying. The only downside is the "cry wolf" effect, but frankly I don't care until people start treating my claims like the bogusness that they are half of the time.

Renata, Seon, Diamondeye, Tincow, and Psychonaut and Kagemusha IIRC all fell for this nonsense. These are not silly players, these are all players who should be admired and feared, taken in by Sasaki and his lies.

I didn't for one second believe Sasaki. I saw what he was trying to do and did what I thought would be the best to help him "distract" the fire of the Sith. It's a legit maneuver I even attempted myself several times throughout the game (finally ending with the Sith Lord obliterating me).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Gah, the only time I acted like a townie was when I'm being stupid? Man, I realy am bad at this game.

Not quite; what I meant was, when people make a post that clearly indicates they've missed something important, you can attribute that to hastiness or lack of information, attributes found in most townies.

Sith and others in the know will refrain from making those sorts of common errors, and play very cautiously, because so much rides on their actions and decisions.

I think the same would be true of you if you had a power role. That's not a reflection on you; just how basic townies tend to behave a lot.



Edit: @ DE above-

Then you had me fooled as well, sir. Good show!

[Chaotix]

Well played, Chaotix. I should have listened to pever that you were playing your own game.

Nice write-ups ATPG - and I'm very glad that you didn't close down the game!!

Ignoramus, if I could have taken any one player of my choice to a possible victory with me, it would have been you. I kept hoping that you would become a Dark Jedi, but you became Grandmaster before me and took Light Side Enlightenment before it could happen.

While you were alive, our alliance was genuine; it was only after Diana turned up not Sith that I saw my chance and took it.

You played a great game!

[dcmort93]

I kinda digged the post about the fail lynch on me hahahahahaha if only I could rep

[Askthepizzaguy]

I kinda digged the post about the fail lynch on me hahahahahaha if only I could rep

It failed so hard that it actually won.

I seriously thought that was one of the least productive rounds of mafia I've seen in a while. Not to be too harsh on anyone in particular; I will simply cite as an example the next time I see a discussion-stifling wagon that is beyond necessary size, and explain why further votes add nothing and actually can only lead to a negative effect.



Edit: Going to take a break/nap now. Answer more Questions and post finale later or tomorrow. Have work tomorrow (WIN) so no promises. But all actions are in and game is in fact over. Postgame has begun.

[dcmort93]

I agree and yet the "reasons" why I was lynched are the way I've played in every game but takhisis's mars attacks game on cfc where I was actually mafia

[Frozen In Ice]

So it appears my best post in the whole game came after I was dead; I need to get working on my scum hunting skills. Still, that game was a ton of fun, and thank you ATPG for putting in all the effort that was required to make it such a success!

[Ignoramus]

Ignoramus, if I could have taken any one player of my choice to a possible victory with me, it would have been you. I kept hoping that you would become a Dark Jedi, but you became Grandmaster before me and took Light Side Enlightenment before it could happen.

While you were alive, our alliance was genuine; it was only after Diana turned up not Sith that I saw my chance and took it.

You played a great game!

Thanks, I really enjoyed it and this game. 'Twas a pleasure to have played with you.

And thanks so much for the write-up ATPG - I certainly have a lot to learn about mafia. If I wasn't going away for a couple of weeks then I'd gladly join the next couple of games.

[Cecil XIX]

It was good game everyone, and a fine learning experience. ATPG, you're really great with writeups. Some of those really kept me on the edge of my seat. I hope to go back and study this game for further insights.

[pevergreen]

It's at this point that pevergreen drops his load of information and sits down, exhausted, and not sure he can continue being a leader. He read the holocron, congratulated me on the game design, and then said he hated me.

29/11/2010 11:34:01 PM pevergreen to Askthepizzaguy i hate you as a player, applaud you as a host

Telling the Sith who you're investigating and defending is also bad.

At this point, the game plan was basically keep Ig alive for as long as possible, as he had just gotten investigation 3. We would go through one by one and create the non-sith list.

As for the investigation on Khazaar, needed a throw away target that we didn't suspect. The only reason was to see if anyone lied in investigation results (two people use same scan, both different = something is wrong) and to hopefully limit the number of actions the sith took (as well as hopefully having no vig kills).

At this point, and for the large portion of the game, town was unwilling to follow me. I do apologise for the huge death toll that night though.


My attitude towards chaotix this game:

After finding out his role and the possible implications through the holocron, I never fully trusted him. I did not think he was sith, but I knew that because of his role, he could easily have his own win condition that involved a town loss. He was useful, and I wasn't that happy when I saw him become GM.

Townie Network:

I withheld information I didn't believe the town needed to know, or things that would help the sith. I had no problems with working with someone, potentially getting them lynched, then working with them again (see: Ig)
I was continually worried about having sith feeding me info, but until Ig got Investigation 3, I had no way of checking for sure. I tried not to rely on anyone too much.

I've said it before, and it is very true. I am and have always been bad at catching sith. If I was not the first force ghost to come along, I would have happily just followed the thread. I've always been a big anti-town network voice, but it was basically required of me this game.

I tried, and although I'm still nt sure how the game exactly ends, I hope the town realises I was always trying for the jedi victory.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Your write up has only given further evidence of the advantage of my playing style. I am unreadable, I can be your grandmaster or I could be your Sith Master in any game and none of you can tell.

Sooner or later, my game of lulz will come about, and it will be the craziest game any of you will have ever played.

EDIT: My direct replies to ATPG's commentary:

1. I will only admit I am trying to hurt the town when I want to tell the town I am trying to hurt them. Whether that is the case or not, meh.
2. If anyone thinks I will change the way I act because I have a mafia role, they are setting themselves up for disaster. I will not hesitate to act the "proper" way as a real townie and have people lynch me foolishly early in the game. I will not be predictable.
3. Your statement of lynching me early might lead to some very short games I could have otherwise done well in. I like to think though that you will all keep me around for the first couple rounds simply for my comedy.
4. One of your statements is dead wrong, one of them describes me 100% correct, they are right next to each other.
5. The round killing me was the critical time for the Sith to get as far as they did. If I was out of the picture, the smart townies would have used the tools (a spreadsheet) and would have had a good chance of turning it around right then. Sucks that the Sith ****** it up at the endgame.

[Choxorn]

Lol, looking at some of the things I said in your commentary makes me realize just how far off the mark I was many points throughout the game.

My day 1 vote on pever was honestly just a random day 1 vote, and I never expected a bandwagon would form on him and Raskolnikov. I later only stayed on him cause, like all the other CFC'ers, I was trying to save Ras. In the end, we probably got pever killed just by revealing the fact that he was powerful to the Sith.

I think I tried as hard as possible after I died to say "Hey, townies, I had Force Meld and died using it, now do you realize how the damn power works?" Sigh... for all my force powers, I couldn't stand up to Force Scream any more than anyone else could. Like you said in response to Sasaki, it probably killed more people than any other Sith power, and, like I complained in reponse a while ago, it also killed two Force Meld users (me and Arpeg2). The power was kind of disappointing, since it hardly ever protected anyone, and when it did, it often resulted in death for the protector, or, more often, the protector and the protected.

I got 4 new active defenses as a Padawan- I think night 2 was the only night I failed to get a power. Then I leveled up to Knight, and got most of the passive defenses, too.

[Double A]

5. The round killing me was the critical time for the Sith to get as far as they did. If I was out of the picture, the smart townies would have used the tools (a spreadsheet) and would have had a good chance of turning it around right then. Sucks that the Sith ****** it up at the endgame.

Please elaborate on these "spreadsheets."

[Greyblades]

So who were the two people that killed me trying to get to joooray?

[Ironside]

So who were the two people that killed me trying to get to joooray?

Chaotix, and Kagemusha.

Which I ironically called. And by the right reasons.
Even if the puppet theory was wrong.

You should've listened to me town.

Edit: Well, not 100% about Kage. Could be Igno that was the twin blue.

[Ignoramus]

It was Chaotix and I. I didn't think Joooray was Sith, but I think both Chaotix and I treated it as a test to see if each other was playing straight or not.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Please elaborate on these "spreadsheets."

Just referencing this with the important part bolded:

Day Sixteen- The beginning of the end

This was critical. You could have determined who the Sith Master was through process of elimination.

That's what the lightsaber colors appearing in the writeup were for. That's your best investigative tool of all.

I was truthful when I said "saber colors don't mean anything, except red always means Sith."

It doesn't matter what color they are, just that they appear in the writeup. If you can prove, through your saber color, that you were in the writeup doing something while the sith master was busy, you're not the sith master.

This could have been solved by spreadsheet by now. Just a little bit of cluedo style process of elimination.

Kudos to Sasaki for pointing this out. Sad no one tried it.

People should have been discussing what to do for the night phase, proposing theories on how to solve the game with the available actions.

People were moving as one and voting as one, but unfortunately, they were also thinking as one.

That's not good. There needs to be ideas generated, plans considered. Otherwise it's all on the shoulders of someone who might just pick randomly and not give it a second thought.

You needed this vital time to discuss and solve. It was solvable here, but the opportunity was blown, as far as I can tell.

If anything loses the game, it is the lack of effort in solving the mystery through all available tools.

Granted, some people tried hard to solve things based on behavior. But you had other tools.

A good game, but Sith did play better than the Jedi.

[Chaotix]

It was Chaotix and I. I didn't think Joooray was Sith, but I think both Chaotix and I treated it as a test to see if each other was playing straight or not.

Yep.

Joooray had a history of getting in my way as well as Ignoramus's. Basically, he was a Dark Jedi and we both wanted him dead, although Ig probably for purer reasons than mine.

Joooray was the one Dark Jedi I didn't want to ally with, because he was stronger than me while he was living.

It had me giggling when everybody was like "OMG Sith double-teamed the GM!" Neither of us was Sith. This was the first night action I lied to pever about, so nobody knew.

From then on, Ignoramus and I were allies, and I trusted him with more information about my own role than anyone else.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode IV: Not even close to being done yet

Link to the spreadsheet which indicates which attack is good versus which defense.

CLICK HERE.

Explanation:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(W) Means this defense (horizontal) will ALWAYS win against the specified attack (vertical). If using Judgment, the move will also succeed as a defense as well as an attack.

(L) Means this defense will ALWAYS lose against the specified attack

(-) Means this will have no effect, or I was lazy and I didn't put an L there. Basically the same thing as L.

(Rank) Means I have to check the rank of the attacker versus the rank of the defender, and take into account passive boosts to rank and possibly saber form as well. If the rank of the defender matches or exceeds the rank of the attacker, the defense works. If the rank of the attacker exceeds the rank of the defender, the defense fails.

(Absorb) Means that the user of the move (Judgment) will not only perform an attack against someone, but Judgment will also act as a defensive move. In this case, it will also succeed as a defense and also learn the dark side attack in question.

(Counter) Means that the user of the move (Judgment) will not only perform an attack against someone, but Judgment will also act as a defensive move. In this case, it will also succeed as a defense and also learn the dark side attack in question AND use it against the person who performed the move, simultaneously.

(30%) Means that the person with Art of Movement has a 30% chance of not dying due to saber, orb I, or lightning I.

(Add 1) Means that the defense or passive ability boosts your rank by 1 against sabers.

(Reflect) Means that this saber form will reflect the attack back at the attacker.

(Form) Means that this defense is a saber form, and you must consult the saber combat chart to determine effectiveness. Highest rank wins.

Saber combat chart:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Form I: Shii-Cho, also known as The Way of the Sarlacc, or The Determination Form, was the first of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Adds +1 Level when facing two opponents.
Adds +1 Level when facing two blades.
Adds +1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)
Adds +1 Level when facing Niman (Form VI)
Minus -1 Level when facing one opponent.
Minus -1 Level when facing Makashi (Form II)

Form II: Makashi, also known as The Way of the Ysalamiri, or The Contention Form, was the second form of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Adds +1 Level when facing Shii-Cho (Form I)
Adds +1 Level when facing Ataru (Form IV)
Adds +1 Level when facing two blades
Minus -1 Level when facing force projectiles (lightning, orbs, etc)
Minus -1 Level when facing two opponents
Minus -1 Level when facing double-blade
Minus -1 Level when facing Niman (Form VI)

Form III: Soresu, also known as the Way of the Mynock, or The Resilience Form, was the third of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Adds +1 Level when facing force projectiles
Adds +1 Level when facing double-blade
Adds +1 Level when facing two blades
Adds +1 Level when facing Ataru (Form IV)
Minus -1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)

Form IV: Ataru, also known as the Way of the Hawk-Bat, or The Aggression Form, was the fourth of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.
-allows Two-handed Lightsaber combat (twin blades)

Adds +1 Level when facing Makashi (Form II)
Adds +1 Level when facing Djem So (Form V)
Minus -1 Level when facing Soresu (Form III)

Form V: Shien / Djem So, also known as The Way of the Krayt Dragon, or The Perseverance Form, was the fifth of seven forms recognized as canon by the last Jedi Council for lightsaber combat

Adds +1 Level when facing force projectiles
Adds +1 Level when facing two opponents
Adds +1 Level when facing Soresu (Form III)
Adds +1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)
Minus -1 Level when facing single opponents
Minus -1 Level when facing Ataru (Form IV)
Minus -1 Level when facing Niman (Form VI)

Form VI: Niman, also known as The Way of the Rancor, The Moderation Form, and the diplomat's form, was the sixth form of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.
-Allows Two-handed Lightsaber combat- Jar'Kai (twin blades)

Adds +1 Level when using two blades offensively.
Adds +1 Level when facing Makashi (Form II)
Adds +1 Level when facing Djem So (Form V)
Minus -1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)
Minus -1 Level when facing Shii-Cho (Form I)

Form VII: Juyo / Vaapad, also known as The Way of the Vornskr, or The Ferocity Form, was the seventh of seven forms recognized as canon for lightsaber combat by the last Jedi Council of the Old Jedi Order.
-Allows Double-bladed lightsaber combat

Adds +1 Level when facing Force Lightning
Adds +1 Level when facing Form III (Soresu)
Minus -1 Level when facing Djem So (Form V)
Minus -1 Level when facing Twin Blades

Abilities by rank.

• Number indicates Random.org result.
• If you have tier I of an ability and land on tier II or tier III, you gain tier II.
• If you do not have tier I of an ability and land on a more advanced form, you do not gain tier I.
• If you have tier I or II of an ability and land on tier I or tier II, you gain the next tier.
• If you are on the light side of the force, the only way to improve a dark side ability is to land on it. You will not gain new ones.
• If you are on the dark side of the force, the only way to improve a light side ability is to land on it. You will not gain new ones.
• Light side Jedi will not learn Stealth unless they began with the ability.
• Jedi will not learn Cloak unless they are at -2 for alignment or lower.
• Jedi will not learn Slow unless they are at -2 for alignment or lower.
• Jedi will not learn Suppression unless they are at -2 for alignment or lower.
• Jedi will not learn Dark Side attacking powers unless they are at -3 or lower. (Dark Jedi)
• Jedi will learn 1 Dark Side power per turn if they are at -5 or lower. (Dark Jedi)
• Jedi will learn 2 Dark Side powers per turn if they are at -7 or lower. (Dark Jedi)
• Jedi will learn 5 Dark Side powers per turn if they are at -10 (Rogue Sith/Bane Anded) [Dark Side Mastery]
• Jedi will learn Dark Side powers if they have become Grandmaster and have run out of Light Side powers to learn.

• Sith Apprentice = Knight Rank, Dark Side powers
• Sith Lord = Master Rank, Dark Side powers
• Dark Lord of the Sith = Grandmaster Rank, Sith only, Dark Side powes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Blue- Jedi Grandmaster only (Must be Jedi Grandmaster)
Teal- Light side powers (must have Light Side of 1 or above, or Jedi Holocron)
Purple- Universal powers (everyone can learn)
Dark red- Dark side powers
Red- Dark Lord of the Sith only (Must be Sith Grandmaster)

Jedi Initiate level powers
(able to be learned through training)

1 Art of Movement- basic, agility/evasion boost (30% chance of avoiding saber or projectiles)
2 --Force Jump- allows a force-assisted leap which can avoid many kinds of attacks.
3 Force Blinding- creates bright flash which can stun attacker
4 Force Sense- Allows one to sense danger approaching, counters certain force powers.
5 Force Breath- Allows survival of 1 lynch
6 Force Meld- Can be used to join another in battle.
7 Alter Damage- allows lightsaber combat victory to not be fatal
8 Force Push- knocks enemy away, which can interrupt their attack or lower their defenses.
(8)

Jedi Padawan level powers
(Some Jedi Initiates know these powers at the start, but cannot learn them if they don't have them)

9 Lightsaber (item) [Gain automatically upon being Padawan)
10 Form I
11 Form II
12 Form III
13 Saber Throw- allows push/pull of saber (+1 projectile offense)
14 Force Deflection- repels energy projectiles
15 Force Valor- Adds 1 level to lightsaber combat and wins drawn force battles.
16 Force Stun- can stun opponent, preventing certain attacks.
17 --Force Speed- improves mental and physical speed, useful in physical combat, or to escape.
18 --Force Body- Makes one immune to pain and wounds, does not usually prevent death.
19 --Battle meditation- boosts stamina and strength (lightsaber passive +1)
20 Saber Barrier- adds defense against projectiles (+1 projectile defense)
(20)

Jedi Knight level powers
(Some Jedi Padawans know these powers at the start, but cannot learn them if they don't have them)

21 Lightsaber (One vigilante action, one target)
22 --Double-blade (Two actions, same target)
23 ----Battle mind- boosts focus and morale (force passive def +1)
24 ------Battle precognition- improves all passive defenses +1
25 Telekinetic Lightsaber combat- allows levitation of sabers and objects (+1 projectile off/def)
26 Form IV
27 Form V
28 Form VI
29 ---Double-bladed Saber (Form VII-2)
30 Electric Judgment- Allows Jedi to use Force Lightning
31 Force Vision- Allows one to see through stealth (investigation)
32 Force Persuasion- Senses if someone can be turned to the Dark Side. (investigation)
33 --Force Wave (Tier II force Push)
34 Telekinesis- Repels physical attacks, throws, pushes, and pulls
35 --Force Stasis (Tier II Force Stun)
36 --Force Empathy- Allows one counter stealth attacks, counters certain force powers.
37 --Force Grip- lifts opponent in the air, which negates their ability to escape or use certain powers.
38 Force Healing- Can be used to heal lightsaber wounds
(38)

Jedi Master level powers

39 ----Twin saber (Two actions, same or two targets)
40 Form VII
41 -Twin Saber I
42 --Twin Saber II
43 --Force Light- weakens a dark-sider's connection to the force.
44 --Force Revitalize- Can be used to heal force wounds
45 --Righteous Judgment- Allows Jedi to learn Sith offensive powers during battle.
46 Drain Knowledge- removes one power from target and absorbs it
47 --Force Morichro- Acts as a roleblocking power.
48 --Force Protection- repels many kinds of force attacks
49 --Force Improved Vision- Allows one to see through stealth or cloak (investigation)
50 Force Ghost- Allows vote even in death
51 ----Force Whirlwind (Tier III Force Push)
52 ----Force Stasis Field (Tier III Force Stun)
53 ----Force Sight- Allows one to counter stealth or cloak attacks, counters certain force powers.
54 --Force Absorb- converts incoming energy into the force, strengthens force power.
(54)

Jedi Grandmaster level powers

55 Wall of light- Can be used to defend against almost any attack
56 ----Force Resuscitation- Can be used to prevent death
57 ----Final Judgment- Allows Jedi to steal Sith offensive powers during battle.
58 Force Englightenment- Defends against all dark side corruption or mind attacks. Can defend one other against the threat of the Dark Side.
59 ----Force Far Sight- Allows one to see through stealth, cloak, or Force Trance. (investigation)
60 --------Battle Mastery- improves defenses against two attackers +1
(60)

Sith Apprentice level powers

61 --Force Corrupt- Attempts to turn someone to the Dark Side.
62 Force Stealth- allows one to hide from some scans and attacks
63 --Force Cloak- allows one to hide from most scans and attacks
64 Force Suppression- Counters certain force attacks
65 --Force Breach- Counters additional force attacks.
66 Force Slow- Can counter Force Speed
67 --Force Affliction- Can counter Speed, Meditation, Battlemind, Precognition, Art of Movement
68 Force Drain
69 --Force Vortex
70 Force Choke
71 --Force Wound
72 Force Scream
73 --Force Crush
74 Force Lightning
75 --Chain Lightning
76 Force Orb
77 --Force Energy
(77)

Sith Lord level powers

78 ----Mind Control- Forces a turn to the Dark Side.
79 ----Force Trance- can be used to appear dead, and mask one's connection to the force.
80 ----Force Sever (sever force)- Removes all active force powers from target. Not always effective.
81 ----Force Plague- Can counter all battle enhancements and several passive defenses.
82 ----Force Maelstrom
83 ----Force Kill
84 ----Force Destruction
85 ----Force Storm
86 ----Force Blast
(86)

Dark Lord of the Sith level powers

87 Force Reanimation- Forces the midichlorians to restore life to a Sith. (Can use every two turns)
88 Deadly Sight
89 --Force Combustion
90 ----Force Oblivion (thought bomb)
(90)


Sith Ghost Powers:

91- Wound in the Force (Removes a Jedi Force Ghost from the game, but also removes Sith Force Ghost from the game)

EVENTS AFFECTING ALIGNMENT:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[pevergreen kills Raskolnikov in a lightsaber duel, Day One] +1 dark side.
[Belisarius II kills Zack with Righteous Judgment, Night Two] +1 dark side
[Belisarius II kills Sasaki with Righteous Judgment, Night Three] +1 dark side
[Psychonaut converts Ironside to Sith Apprentice, Night Four] Dark Side Enlightenment
[Belisarius II defeats Ignoramus, but spares him with Alter Damage, N7] +1 light side
[dcmort suvives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Seven] +1 dark side
[Joooray kills dcmort with Electric Judgment, Night Seven] +1 dark side
[Chaotix kills remake20 in battle with lightsaber, Night Eight] +1 dark side
[Joooray kills Stuck in Pi2 with Electric Judgment, Night Eight] +1 dark side
[Ignoramus suvives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Seven] +1 dark side
[Ignoramus is protected by Wall of Light (Belisarius II, Night Eight] +1 light side
[Joooray used Light on Ignoramus during their duel Day nine] +1 light side
[Light used on Ignoramus by Joooray during their duel Day nine] +1 light side
[Choxorn successfully uses Force Meld to save Death is Yonder Night nine] +2 light side
[Ignoramus is protected by Wall of Light by Belisarius II, Night Nine] +1 light side
[Belisarius II chooses Light Side Enlightenment, Night Nine] Light Side Enlightenment
[wideyedwanderer suvives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Ten] +1 dark side
[Belisarius successfully defends Ignoramus, twice, Night Ten] +2 Light side
[Chaotix attacks Joooray in battle with dark side force lightning, Night Ten] +1 dark side
[Psychonaut converts Renata to Sith Apprentice, Night Eleven] Dark Side Enlightenment
[Chaotix attacks Sasaki in battle with dark side force lightning, Night Eleven] +1 dark side
[Captain Blackadder kills Slysnake2 with Juyo II, Night Ten] +2 dark side
[Diana Abnoba survives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Twelve] +1 dark side
[Yaseikhaan attacks Chaotix with Electric Judgment, Night Twelve] +1 dark side
[Chaotix uses two dark side attacks on Greyblades, Night Twelve] +2 dark side
[Ignoramus kills Greyblades while trying to attack Joooray, Night Twelve] +1 dark side
[Tincow successfully saves Renata using meld, Night Twelve] +2 light side
[ACIN kills God Emperor with lightsaber, Night Fourteen] +1 dark side
[Diamondeye kills ByzKnight with lightsaber, Night Fourteen] +1 dark side
[Ignoramus kills Frozen with Righteous judgment, Night Fifteen] +1 dark side
[Chaotix uses Righteous judgment and Energy, Night Fifteen] +2 dark side
[Csargo kills Warman with lightsaber, Night Fifteen] +1 dark side
[Tincow successfully saves Ignoramus using meld, Night Fifteen] +2 light side
[Blackadder successfully saves Ignoramus using meld, Night Fifteen] +2 light side
[Chaotix uses Cloak, Night Sixteen] +1 Dark side
[Chaotix uses a dark power, judgment Night Seventeen] +2 Dark side Dark Side Mastery (-10)
[Nightbringer slays Double A, Night Seventeen] +1 Dark side
[Diana uses Cloak, Night Eighteen] +1 Dark side
[Chaotix chooses Light Side Enlightenment, Night Eighteen] Light Side Enlightenment

Investigation Results:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kagemusha's alignment doesn't appear to be Sith for certain even if scanned by Investigation III if he is using Force Trance, but if combined with investigation IV, everything will be revealed. Psychonaut, however, can be caught using Investigation III alone.
If he fails to use Force Trance, then his true alignment is revealed.

Unclear- Scan failed due to Morichro.



Force Vision (Investigation I)
Scan result: is target using "active ability" or not.

• "Target is using active ability"
• "Target is not using active ability"
• "Unclear" (SCAN FAILED!)

Force Improved Vision (Investigation II)
Scan result: What is target name, and are they strong with the Light Side or not.

• "Name, The Light side is overwhelming with this one. They have attained Light Side Mastery, and can never fall to the Dark Side under any circumstances" (Mastery)
• "Name, The Light side is strong with this one." (LIGHT SIDE, STRONG)
• "Name, The Light side is present in this one." (LIGHT SIDE, WEAK)
• "Name, The Light side is present, but weak, in this one. (NEUTRAL)
• "Name, The Light side is not strong with this one." (DARK SIDE)
• "Unclear" (SCAN FAILED!)

Force Far Sight (Investigation III)
Scan result: Rank, and are they strong with the Dark Side?

• "Rank, The Dark side is not strong in this one." (LIGHT SIDE)
• "Rank, The Dark side is present, but weak, in this one." (NEUTRAL)
• "Rank, The Dark side is present in this one." (INNOCENT/DARK SIDE)
• "Rank, The Dark side is strong with this one." (NEUTRAL/DARK SIDE)
• "Rank, The Dark side is overwhelming with this one. There can be no doubt that this is a Sith!" (SITH/DARK SIDE)
• "Unclear" (SCAN FAILED!)

Force Persuasion (Investigation IV)
Scan result: Conversion-susceptible or not. Sense if the Dark Side is present, but not how strong.

• "Not susceptible to the Dark Side, and you don't sense the Dark Side already present in this one." [LIGHT SIDE]
• "Not susceptible to the Dark Side, but you're not sure if the Dark Side is present or not." [NEUTRAL]
• "Susceptible to the Dark Side, and you sense that the Dark Side is already present in this one." [DARK SIDE]
• "Not Susceptible to the Dark Side, and you sense that the Dark Side is already present in this one." [CHAOTIC, SITH]

[Yaropolk]

Can you post night actions? Curious who killed me on N11.

[Diamondeye]

... God Emperor did a valiant attempt to organize everything in a spreadsheet just about when he was killed, but I think it's much easier if you collect info throughout the game instead of trying to gather it all 15 day phases into the game.

Also, I was right about by basic assumption about choosing Makashi. I picked it to be able to kill single opponents, and since everyone had Shii-Cho for Defense, I wanted something that could counter it. Too bad I didn't get Makashi until everyone else had another saber form as well.

[robbiecon]

I too would like to know who killed me.

[Nightbringer]

I would like to know if I have died or not!!!

Amazing game though pizza!

[Ironside]

In general, I used force scream, Psycho used force choke-> kill and Kage experimented a bit.

Renata varied as well, but only had tier1- tier 2 powers as an apprentice.

All successful vigi attacks are in the EVENTS AFFECTING ALIGNMENT- list.