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  1. #1
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    6 dead people should have no more bearing on gun rights than one dead person.

    I AM FULLY AWARE GUNS CAN BE USED TO MURDER PEOPLE AND I STILL THINK WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO OWN THEM. NO AMOUNT OF SOB STORIES WILL CHANGE MY MIND BECAUSE IF I WAS THE SUSEPTIBLE TO SUGGESTION IN THE FIRST PLACE I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO VOTE
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  2. #2
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    6 dead people should have no more bearing on gun rights than one dead person.

    I AM FULLY AWARE GUNS CAN BE USED TO MURDER PEOPLE AND I STILL THINK WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO OWN THEM. NO AMOUNT OF SOB STORIES WILL CHANGE MY MIND BECAUSE IF I WAS THE SUSEPTIBLE TO SUGGESTION IN THE FIRST PLACE I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO VOTE
    And what of one and a half million dead Americans since the end of the Vietnam war?

    We need to run industrial deathcamps in Europe to reach those levels of civilian casualties.

    I realise the gun debate in America is over. The gun lobby has won. Perhaps in a generation or two sanity can be restored again. For now, I am happy if we can keep America's gun culture from exporting itself.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    England has very strict gun control laws. France much less so. America hardly any. The effect:



    Gun Homicide (per 100,000)

    Japan 0.03
    Singapore 0.07
    Taiwan 0.15
    Kuwait 0.34
    England/ Wales 0.07
    Scotland 0.19
    Netherlands 0.27
    Spain 0.19
    Ireland 0.30
    Germany 0.21
    Italy 1.16
    Sweden 0.18
    Denmark 0.23
    Israel 0.72
    New Zealand 0.22
    Australia 0.56
    Belgium 0.87
    Canada 0.60
    Norway 0.36
    Austria 0.42
    Northern Ireland 3.55
    France 0.55
    Switzerland 0.46
    Finland 0.87
    USA 6.24

    Rates of firearms deaths for most countries are from:

    United Nations Commission on Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice.
    International study on firearm regulation (revised). Vienna: United
    Nations, 1997.[tables 2.7, 6.2 and 7.1].
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  3. #3
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    No point talking sense to an American about guns, they live in a violent country where even bees kill and eat people alive. In the UK by comparison, bees are classified as "endangered species" and protected, because they cannot fend for themselves.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    [spoil]England has very strict gun control laws. France much less so. America hardly any. The effect:
    This is false, at least in relation to Britain (I don't have data on France). Gun crime (and crime in general) has always been significantly lower in Britain (and Europe) than in the US, both before and after the restrictive laws were put in place. The difference has far more to do with culture than the availibility of guns.

    * In 1920, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess any firearm except a shotgun. To obtain this certificate, the applicant had to pay a fee, and the chief of police had to be "satisfied" that the applicant had "good reason for requiring such a certificate" and did not pose a "danger to the public safety or to the peace." The certificate had to specify the types and quantities of firearms and ammunition that the applicant could purchase and keep.[38]

    * In 1968, Britain made the 1920 law stricter by requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess a shotgun. This law also required that firearm certificates specify the identification numbers ("if known") of all firearms and shotguns owned by the applicant.[39]

    * In 1997, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to surrender almost all privately owned handguns to the police. More than 162,000 handguns and 1.5 million pounds of ammunition were "compulsorily surrendered" by February 1998. Using "records of firearms held on firearms certificates," police accounted for all but fewer than eight of all legally owned handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales.[40]



    † Homicide data is published according to the years in which the police initially reported the offenses as homicides, which are not always the same years in which the incidents took place.
    ‡ Large anomalies unrelated to guns:
    2000: 58 Chinese people suffocated to death in a shipping container en route to the UK
    2002: 172 homicides reported when Dr. Harold Shipman was exposed for killing his patients
    2003: 20 cockle pickers drowned resulting in manslaughter charges
    2005: 52 people were killed in the July 7th London subway/bus bombings[41]

    * Not counting the above-listed anomalies, the British homicide rate has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban.[42]
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 01-13-2011 at 02:27.

  5. #5
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    And what of one and a half million dead Americans since the end of the Vietnam war?

    We need to run industrial deathcamps in Europe to reach those levels of civilian casualties.

    I realise the gun debate in America is over. The gun lobby has won. Perhaps in a generation or two sanity can be restored again. For now, I am happy if we can keep America's gun culture from exporting itself.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    England has very strict gun control laws. France much less so. America hardly any. The effect:



    Gun Homicide (per 100,000)

    Japan 0.03
    Singapore 0.07
    Taiwan 0.15
    Kuwait 0.34
    England/ Wales 0.07
    Scotland 0.19
    Netherlands 0.27
    Spain 0.19
    Ireland 0.30
    Germany 0.21
    Italy 1.16
    Sweden 0.18
    Denmark 0.23
    Israel 0.72
    New Zealand 0.22
    Australia 0.56
    Belgium 0.87
    Canada 0.60
    Norway 0.36
    Austria 0.42
    Northern Ireland 3.55
    France 0.55
    Switzerland 0.46
    Finland 0.87
    USA 6.24

    Rates of firearms deaths for most countries are from:

    United Nations Commission on Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice.
    International study on firearm regulation (revised). Vienna: United
    Nations, 1997.[tables 2.7, 6.2 and 7.1].
    Hmm, maybe we ought to look at Switzerland. Most of the USA is due to gang violence, and conflicts over drugs. Stay out of that and the likelihood is significantly lower.

    And hey, doesn't Northern Ireland have the same gun laws as England?

    Also, IIRC roughly four times as many people die in car accidents in the USA.

    CR
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  6. #6
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    IIRC roughly four times as many people die in car accidents in the USA.
    Which is why we need autobahns. Now.

  7. #7

    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    As a Swede growing up with state controlled TV I was very much against the US take on guns..

    I have however changed my mind as of late. Most gun related traumas are dealt with within the lower class. Basically a Darwinistic favor, one might argue. Sure, more guns will lead to more meaningless deaths.. But then, I can trade 6 ghetto guys for me having a gun whenever I or my family is at risk.

    So statistics - bleh!

    It is more about who is saved, rather than what number is saved. It is more about who gets killed, than the number of slain.
    Few are born with it, even fewer know what to do with it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    As a Swede growing up with state controlled TV I was very much against the US take on guns..

    I have however changed my mind as of late. Most gun related traumas are dealt with within the lower class. Basically a Darwinistic favor, one might argue. Sure, more guns will lead to more meaningless deaths.. But then, I can trade 6 ghetto guys for me having a gun whenever I or my family is at risk.

    So statistics - bleh!

    It is more about who is saved, rather than what number is saved. It is more about who gets killed, than the number of slain.
    My new favorite backroom contributor.

  9. #9
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
    As a Swede growing up with state controlled TV I was very much against the US take on guns..

    I have however changed my mind as of late. Most gun related traumas are dealt with within the lower class. Basically a Darwinistic favor, one might argue. Sure, more guns will lead to more meaningless deaths.. But then, I can trade 6 ghetto guys for me having a gun whenever I or my family is at risk.

    So statistics - bleh!

    It is more about who is saved, rather than what number is saved. It is more about who gets killed, than the number of slain.
    Black ghetto gangstas don't kill people.


    Republicans do.



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  10. #10
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Not gonna respond, Louis?

    Also, your map includes not homicides but all deaths where people used guns. Since over 50% of people killed by guns in the US are suicides, that map is kind of useless. More rural people will use guns more often for suicide since they're more available. It's a useless graph.

    The second chart ; correlation does not imply causation. So, your chart is meaningless. Also, it's still based on total deaths caused by people with firearms - including suicides. The whole chart is useless, as the suicides skew the data completely. Doubly useless.



    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Black ghetto gangstas don't kill people.

    Republicans do.
    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: NRA is to radcial

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    And hey, doesn't Northern Ireland have the same gun laws as England?
    Terrorism only accounted for about 3500 odd deaths in the North over 30yrs thats bombings, shootings and beating people to death.

    Not to make light of the North but most US states could prob easy pass that in 30 yrs
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 01-18-2011 at 02:23.
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