Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

[fireblade]

Glaucos then spoke:

I AGREE with Kairos and Arthouros proposals.

I DISAGREE with any offensive action against mytilene for now, it is my strong believe, that taking Pella would weaken the Makedons a lot more. Let us forget about Asia minor until our homeland is secure. Because now, the alliance army has to remain on guard to protect from incursions coming from Pella, severely hampering our offensive capabilities. Yet, if after the conquest of Kretai, we throw all our strength against Pella, we can take it, and then proceed onto Epiros. Only after our homeland is secure, should we concern us with other regions, regions that might bring us in conflict with other powers.
Therefore I PROPOSE that after our conquest of Kretai, we muster our strength for an assault on Pella.

[The_Blacksmith]

Kaleros stood tall and wide, a master in horseriding and agoge, not the wisest of the athenian council but a man of millitary knowhow...

Makedonians... Ha, barbarian witout a shade of true greek courage! I PROPOSE that we rip the weed out with the root and go STRAIGHT for Pella, now or never! In a joint Athenai-Spartai assault, with everything we got!

may Ares and Athene be with you all wise and just friends!

I AGREE with the proposal brought forth by Kairos.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Leumenes, I thank you for your ability to see an argument for what it is, and - as a true Greek - to seperate it from the person. You are wise and magnanimous. May Ares watch over you with favour.

Glaucos, I understand your concern over Pella. For me the same reasoning attends to your proposal as any proposal to attack Thermon. It is well garrisoned, by experienced soldiers lead by experienced commanders. To take Pella will be to spill too much Greek blood and then place ourselves in direct line of sight of the Epirotes' expansionism; moreover, Pella is a place they will feel is theirs by right. Taking Mytilene, and bringing Pergamon into our sphere of influence will open up great trading possibilities, as well as weakening the Macedons. With allied enemies on all sides Pella will become a prison for the Macedons. Weaken Macedon, increase our trading abilities, and hold Pella - as Thermon - as a buffer between ourselves and further enemies within Hellas. Until such time as we are on a more favourable financial footing.

Let us take a longer view.

For those reasons I DISAGREE with the proposal to attack Pella."

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Glaucos, I understand your concern over Pella. For me the same reasoning attends to your proposal as any proposal to attack Thermon. It is well garrisoned, by experienced soldiers lead by experienced commanders. To take Pella will be to spill too much Greek blood and then place ourselves in direct line of sight of the Epirotes' expansionism; moreover, Pella is a place they will feel is theirs by right. Taking Mytilene, and bringing Pergamon into our sphere of influence will open up great trading possibilities, as well as weakening the Macedons. With allied enemies on all sides Pella will become a prison for the Macedons. Weaken Macedon, increase our trading abilities, and hold Pella - as Thermon - as a buffer between ourselves and further enemies within Hellas. Until such time as we are on a more favourable financial footing.

Let us take a longer view.

For those reasons I DISAGREE with the proposal to attack Pella."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros stood up and spoke:

"Demosthenes, I wholeheartedly AGREE, we cannot be too rash in this matter, for it is unwise to slay one foreign Tyrannos and then have to deal with the next one, when we have been weakened by our confrontation with the first.

In addition I am not so sure that we at this time have the mnai required to raise an army to face both the Makedones and the Epiriotai, which could be rectified somewhat if we gain control over Krete and Mytilene.

As it is advisable that we do not assault Pella at this time, perhaps we can play Pyrrhos and Antigonos Gonatas against each other?

I PROPOSE we send a diplomat to the court of Pyrrhos, advising him to launch an assault at Pella *, telling him that our forces will be there as well, while we actually order our troops to stay where they are, thereby weakening both of them.


I also PROPOSE that we fortify the mountain pass to the west of Demetrias, so that the Makedones cannot pass through there as easily, giving us more time to prepare for the eventual defence of Demetrias."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*(request military assistance/"Attack faction Makedonia")

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros added:

"I also PROPOSE that we ask the Spartatai to let us Athenians decide the governance of Kydonia in exchange for that we upon the future liberation of Thermon, allow them to decide the system of governance there."


~Arthouros

[jirisys]

Glaucos then spoke:

I AGREE with Kairos and Arthouros proposals.

I DISAGREE with any offensive action against mytilene for now, it is my strong believe, that taking Pella would weaken the Makedons a lot more. Let us forget about Asia minor until our homeland is secure. Because now, the alliance army has to remain on guard to protect from incursions coming from Pella, severely hampering our offensive capabilities. Yet, if after the conquest of Kretai, we throw all our strength against Pella, we can take it, and then proceed onto Epiros. Only after our homeland is secure, should we concern us with other regions, regions that might bring us in conflict with other powers.
Therefore I PROPOSE that after our conquest of Kretai, we muster our strength for an assault on Pella.

Kaleros stood tall and wide, a master in horseriding and agoge, not the wisest of the athenian council but a man of millitary knowhow...

Makedonians... Ha, barbarian witout a shade of true greek courage! I PROPOSE that we rip the weed out with the root and go STRAIGHT for Pella, now or never! In a joint Athenai-Spartai assault, with everything we got!

may Ares and Athene be with you all wise and just friends!

I AGREE with the proposal brought forth by Kairos.

Leumenes, very groggy from his sleep stood up.

I DISAGREE with your proposals, It would be wiser to have them sorrounded in mainland, rather than protected by sea. As their last stand won't be so small.

Arthouros stood up and spoke:

"Demosthenes, I wholeheartedly AGREE, we cannot be too rash in this matter, for it is unwise to slay one foreign Tyrannos and then have to deal with the next one, when we have been weakened by our confrontation with the first.

In addition I am not so sure that we at this time have the mnai required to raise an army to face both the Makedones and the Epiriotai, which could be rectified somewhat if we gain control over Krete and Mytilene.

As it is advisable that we do not assault Pella at this time, perhaps we can play Pyrrhos and Antigonos Gonatas against each other?

I PROPOSE we send a diplomat to the court of Pyrrhos, advising him to launch an assault at Pella *, telling him that our forces will be there as well, while we actually order our troops to stay where they are, thereby weakening both of them.


I also PROPOSE that we fortify the mountain pass to the west of Demetrias, so that the Makedones cannot pass through there as easily, giving us more time to prepare for the eventual defence of Demetrias."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*(request military assistance/"Attack faction Makedonia")

Arthouros added:

"I also PROPOSE that we ask the Spartatai to let us Athenians decide the governance of Kydonia in exchange for that we upon the future liberation of Thermon, allow them to decide the system of governance there."


~Arthouros

I AGREE with your proposals Arthouros.

Leuemenes sat down, half asleep.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Arthourus, I AGREE with all three of your recent proposals. Rather than wait for Epiros to attack Macedon we should, as you suggest, encourage it. If we have, by that time, crushed their forces in Asia, then we might approach them with an offer of peace and protection... so as to avoid for as long as possible direct confrontation with Epiros. And it is always wise to fortify one's borders and passes."

[Molinaargh]

Session over.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Kairos (Walle) proposal:

Improve the military infrastructure in Demetrias

Status: 5 AGREE , (Arthouros, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Glaucos, Kaleros), none against.



Arthouros first batch of proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Send diplomat to Getai, ask for alliance and trade rights.

2. Spy at Krete to infiltrate Kydonia, hopefully opening the gate for our forces.

3. Expand the Agora in Athenai/and or our trading port, whichever is the most feasible.

Status: 3 AGREE (Leumenes, Demosthenes, Glaucos).



Demosthenes proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. That we move against the Macedonians at Lesbos.

Status: 2 AGREE , (Leumenes, Arthouros) one DISAGREE (Glaucos)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. That Demtrias is to be garrisoned.

Status: 2 AGREE, (Leumenes, Arthouros)



Arthouros second batch of proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Tricking Pyrrhos into attacking Pella, not giving him any military support, in order to weaken both him and Antigonos Gonatas. I.e. Send diplomat to Epeiros, ask them to attack Makedonia.

2. Fortify the mountain pass west of Demetrias.

3. That we ask the Spartatai to let Athenai decide the governance of Kydonia in exchange for that we let them decide the system of Governance of Thermon, upon its liberation by our combined forces.

Status: 2 AGREE
(Leumenes, Demosthenes)


Proposal by Glaucos:

Assault Pella

Status: 1 AGREE (Kaleros) 3 DISAGREE (Arthouros, Leumenes, Demosthenes)


Leumenes proposal:

"I PROPOSE we build walls as our primary building in Thermon, so more makedonians die at our gates, and greeks stay safe inside."

If I'm not mistaken none have either agreed nor disagreed to this, and since this session is over... I support it for the next session anyway.


Thought this should make things a bit easier for Molinaargh, not sure if I can keep this up though. Kinda copied this from TWC, and saw that you wished the Athenians do the same.

[Molinaargh]

Yes, thanks for that.

[jirisys]

You forgot mine:

I PROPOSE we build walls as our primary building in Demetrias, so more makedonians die at our gates, and greeks stay safe inside.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

~Arthur

[Molinaargh]

512 (264 BC)

Spartan orders:
-Alliance with Getai tribes. (Yes)
-Population of Pella to be expelled if conquered. (Not yet)
-Akrotatos moved to Athenai to study in its Academy. (Yes)
-Spartan Army to be reinforced from Korinthos. (Yes)
-Attempt to take Thermon if conditions allow. (Not yet)

Athenian orders:
-Alliance with Getai tribes. (Yes)
-Improve military recruitment and defences in Demetrias. (Yes)
-Assault Kydonia as soon as possible. (Yes)
-Fortify the mountain pass to the west of Demetrias. (Yes)
-Lesbos to be the next target. (Not yet)
-Pyrrhos to be asked to attacked Pella. The Koinon will not aid him. (No)


I have become extremely efficient in writing and formatting these reports, councilors.

Damasos was sent to build a small western fort, as per Athenian Council orders.


The Makedones seemed to be aware of the Koinon's strong defensive position, and an army left towards the East, making Pella more vulnerable.


The two forts gave much safety to the newly-icorporated polis of Demetrias.


A deal was attempted with the Epeirotes that would make Pyrrhos attack the Makedones, but they brushed off our offers.





In the coast of Kretai, Doros and the Athenian Army were attacked before they could land near Kydonia.





The Athenian retreating ships ended up to the south of the island, and insisted in an assault from there.





But pirates found the Athenian Fleet soon after the desembark and sunk all of its ships. The last hope of the expedition was that Doros could quickly conquer Kydonia.





He assaulted it as soon as possible, and in the first battle of his life, as well as the first battle he commanded, he was up against Ainesidemos, an experienced Kretaioi strategos.














He still managed to win and conquer Kretai, which would now be a part of the Koinon under the influence of Athenai.


Sympathetic towards the Spartans and their problems, Doros chose to move much of the population from Kretai to Lakonia. The helots were moved from Kydonia to Sparte to solve the population problem once and for all.


After pacifying the region, all government possibilities were available for the Athenians, and the Kretai waited on what would be their faith once the Athenian Army left their city. It's worth reminding that a new fleet would have to be built first.


Doros's men could also be fully retrained in the polis.


Back in Sparte, the economy was being improved by clearing the coast to perhaps build a trading port, which would be expensive, but profitable, especially due to the recent acquisition of Kretai.


With the population boost, new and strong hoplites were trained in the polis.


Akrotatos had left a few months before to study in the Academy of Athens, where he was rather enjoying life and the change of scenario. He was learning much and helping in Athenian administration, being the Hegemon of the Koinon.


In Demetrias, reinforcements were being retrained and recruited.


Further north, the Epeirotes had succeeded where the Makedones had failed, conquering the village of Serdike and its surroundings.


They sent a scouting party from Serdike to Pella, but such small army was soon chased down and crushed by the Basileos.


In the extreme north, contact was made with the Getai tribes, who seemed to enjoy the art of war and could therefore be useful allies.











In Anatolia, Mytilene once again failed in their attempt of conquering Pergamon, even though they had a great army. At this point, it was unlikely that any Makedon nobleman in Mytilene would declare himself King of Makedonia should Pella fall, it was more likely that the polis would simply declare its independence. And Pella was now weaker than the island of Lesbos.


The situation of the Koinon in the winter of 512. Such situation was about to change, though, with the Koinon Elections coming up.