Euro Area

[Brenus]

“Geographically speaking the British Isles are on the periphary of Europe, and our history and culture reflect this. Britain has always looked into Euorpe, like the neighbour looking through your window via a telescope, we never look over our borders. Our closest neighbour is France, but we are seperated by a wide expanse of water, there is no borderland as there is between Germany and France, no meshing of cultures where our two peoples blend together. This is true even on the Channel Islands to a large extent.”

What a lot of err, mistakes…
The entire actual British new conservative mythological History in few sentences…
First, the seas (Baltic, North Sea, The Channel, Atlantic Ocean etc) around Europe were never fences but ways of trading and communication from the Greeks, Phoenicians, Viking, the Hanse and others traders and invaders.
You had more contact between Northern France and England (Holland, Denmark, Norway etc) during the Middle Ages than with Paris or Lyon thanks to the seas.
That is for the Geography.

As for history I suggest you to open books and to read them, especially the ones about Romans, Saxons, and Normans. Then you can carry on with the 100 Years war. The English were so far from Europe than their King felt he could claim the Throne of France (with some right if you believe the blood gave you right), claim abandoned only in 1802 (Treaty of Amiens)…
Then if England is sooooo far from Europe, why keeping Gibraltar?

As Culture, just check how much French words are in the English vocabulary?

And can you define “European Culture” for me please?
It would be useful what Culture in thrown upon you…

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What a lot of err, mistakes…
The entire actual British new conservative mythological History in few sentences…
First, the seas (Baltic, North Sea, The Channel, Atlantic Ocean etc) around Europe were never fences but ways of trading and communication from the Greeks, Phoenicians, Viking, the Hanse and others traders and invaders.
You had more contact between Northern France and England (Holland, Denmark, Norway etc) during the Middle Ages than with Paris or Lyon thanks to the seas.
That is for the Geography.

The Sea may be a way of trading and communicating, but it is also a brarrier to the movement of people. The point is that the border between England and France is profoundly different from the border between France and Germany, and the key difference is the lack of "borderland".

As for history I suggest you to open books and to read them, especially the ones about Romans, Saxons, and Normans. Then you can carry on with the 100 Years war. The English were so far from Europe than their King felt he could claim the Throne of France (with some right if you believe the blood gave you right), claim abandoned only in 1802 (Treaty of Amiens)…

Well, the Romans left much less of a mark on Britain than anywhere else in the Western Empire, within a generation or two Latin culture had collapsed and the peasants still spoke the same language they had when the Romans first arrived. Compare this with their Gallic cousins, who all spoke vulgar Latin or a bastard form there of.The Saxons and the Normans are a different issue, but in the latter case English society became an aparteid, with an English Commons and a French ruling elite.

Why don't you try actually reading what I wrote, instead of insulting my education? I have not tried to claim that England or the UK is some for of cultural isolate, nor would I, but whatever this "European" thing is we do not wish to be included and you cannot force it upon us.

Then if England is sooooo far from Europe, why keeping Gibraltar?

Gibraltar is a Soverign State.

As Culture, just check how much French words are in the English vocabulary?

Check how many Latin words in French - oh wait, it's all Latin. See the difference?

And can you define “European Culture” for me please?
It would be useful what Culture in thrown upon you…

Actually I can't, which is another reason to object, ask Loius.

[Greyblades]

Gibraltar is a Soverign State.

Its also one heck of a strategic position, its the only entrance to the mediteranian for ships, save the suez canal, and a rather efficient choke point, he who owns gibraltar could filter almost all the shipping going in and out of the mediteranian.

[Kagemusha]

So let me get this straight.We have moved over from inevitable destruction of Euro as currency to debate whether British are Europeans?

[gaelic cowboy]

So let me get this straight.We have moved over from inevitable destruction of Euro as currency to debate whether British are Europeans?

Yeah I said this several times lately that this thread had moved away from its initial premise.

Default is coming unless some of the debt is restructured and the interest rates are pegged at much lower level. A sovereign default would be very bad for the Euro and the more this bailout continues in the form it has the more likely Ireland will default.

To the horror of european politicians our politicians are actually talking about redoing the deal top to bottom, of course they privately acknowledged that it must be changed, but apparently the currency is too weak to say so.

I expect some restructured debt before the year is out and a lower rate of interest on the loans, this will of course be a general restructure with greece, Ireland and by then the ECB will have kyboshed Portugal too in order to divest themselves of the Potugeese paper.

You do some or all of this and default can be made far less likely.

[gaelic cowboy]

Its also one heck of a strategic position, its the only entrance to the mediteranian for ships, save the suez canal, and a rather efficient choke point, he who owns gibraltar could filter almost all the shipping going in and out of the mediteranian.

But only as long as he who holds Spain lets you keep Gibraltar, luckily for England the political situation has been calm enough to do so for a long while now.

[Greyblades]

But only as long as he who holds Spain lets you keep Gibraltar, luckily for England the political situation has been calm enough to do so for a long while now.

True, but if the country being blockaded holds spain perventing naval access to and from the mediteranian becomes pointless.
Anyway we've gone off topic. The Euro is going down the tubes; discuss.

[gaelic cowboy]

The Euro is going down the tubes; discuss.

The problem is the inability to admit the debt must be reneged on, it really is as simple as that.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The problem is the inability to admit the debt must be reneged on, it really is as simple as that.

That is because of the gulf between the political aspiration of "Europe" and the political reality. The EU government and the ECB want to act like they are the US Federal Government and Federal Reserve, but they can't so they are doing a sort of twister-limbo-jenga to try and prevent default.

What is really being decided is whether or nor Ireland shall be sacrificed for political expediency.