Backdoor Abortion

[Rhyfelwyr]

And why does the foetus acquire personhood upon passing through a vagina?

[Goofball]

And why does the foetus acquire personhood upon passing through a vagina?

For me personally, it doesn't. It acquires personhood when it would be viable outside of the womb. I do not support late term abortion rights except where there is a serious health risk to the mother.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Sure you do. The arbitrary line you have chosen is "conception," when at the moment of conception the clump of cells that exists is clearly not a human being. Why is yours any more right or wrong than anyone else's arbitrary line?

Well that is the points when all the ingredients that make you are put together.

For me personally, it doesn't. It acquires personhood when it would be viable outside of the womb. I do not support late term abortion rights except where there is a serious health risk to the mother.

But why is viability the best way to determine things? Why should the ability to survive independently be needed for someone to have the right to life?

[Goofball]

Well that is the points when all the ingredients that make you are put together.

A bowl of eggs, flour, cocoa, milk and sugar is not a chocolate cake. It has to bake in a warm place for a while before it becomes one.

But why is viability the best way to determine things? Why should the ability to survive independently be needed for someone to have the right to life?

I don't say it's the best. I say it's what I believe. And my belief is just as valid as yours. In fact, it's much more rationally and logically supportable than using conception as the arbitrary line. With my line, aborting the baby at that stage is actually killing something that at that moment could actually survive as a human being on it's own. Aborting a week-old growth of cells is very different.

[Rhyfelwyr]

A bowl of eggs, flour, cocoa, milk and sugar is not a chocolate cake. It has to bake in a warm place for a while before it becomes one.

Flawed analogy is flawed.

I don't say it's the best. I say it's what I believe. And my belief is just as valid as yours. In fact, it's much more rationally and logically supportable than using conception as the arbitrary line. With my line, aborting the baby at that stage is actually killing something that at that moment could actually survive as a human being on it's own. Aborting a week-old growth of cells is very different.

But again why does it matter that it can survive on its own?

[Goofball]

Flawed analogy is flawed.

Actually that analogy is perfect. Both making a baby and a cake require ingredients, then gestating/cooking before you have the finished product. I don't see how you can say that is a flawed analogy (other than because it obliterates your argument and it's a pure gesture of self-defence). ;)

But again why does it matter that it can survive on its own?

As I have already said, because IMO at that point you are taking a human life. Before that you aren't.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Actually that analogy is perfect. Both making a baby and a cake require ingredients, then gestating/cooking before you have the finished product. I don't see how you can say that is a flawed analogy (other than because it obliterates your argument and it's a pure gesture of self-defence). ;)

The analogy is flawed because we all agree that a cake is only created when the ingredients are prepared in a certain way, but it is not accepted by everyone that the biological matter that we are composed of only makes us human at a certain point in its development... that is the whole point of the debate.

As I have already said, because IMO at that point you are taking a human life. Before that you aren't.

But... why is that when it become a human life?