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  1. #1
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quietly sneaking this in here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    as noted before, we english (read: British) are an arrogant bunch
    No, the English/British are not at all an arrogant bunch. I think that's just you passing off private hypernationalism as a national character trait of a monolithic English/British identity.

    The English are on the whole perfectly relaxed about their identity, and quite open. Inquisitive and embracing of the outsider and the foreign. There are few practical reasons for an Englishman to learn foreign languages, this is often, in Britain and elsewhere, mistaken for the British being oblivious of the world, of being culturally inward looking. Quod non!
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  2. #2
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Quietly sneaking this in here:

    No, the English/British are not at all an arrogant bunch. I think that's just you passing off private hypernationalism as a national character trait of a monolithic English/British identity.

    The English are on the whole perfectly relaxed about their identity, and quite open. Inquisitive and embracing of the outsider and the foreign. There are few practical reasons for an Englishman to learn foreign languages, this is often, in Britain and elsewhere, mistaken for the British being oblivious of the world, of being culturally inward looking. Quod non!
    Britain has always been a melting pot of sorts since the days of the Empire where intellectual elites from around the world mingled in the streets of London. There are many great names which visited, should as Gandhi in his younger days, who took these ideas back with them when they returned home.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    They most definitely didn't mingle in the streets of London, though.
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  4. #4
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    No, the English/British are not at all an arrogant bunch. I think that's just you passing off private hypernationalism as a national character trait of a monolithic English/British identity.

    The English are on the whole perfectly relaxed about their identity, and quite open. Inquisitive and embracing of the outsider and the foreign.
    lol, you think i suffer from hyper-nationalism, little old moderate me! there is a shock waiting for you if you ever explore the british political scene beyond the moist confines of libdemmery.

    quite, how does this conflict with our oft-noted tendency for casual disregard for the opinions of johnny foriegner?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  5. #5
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ubjugated.html

    My favourite part? Ireland and Spain never breached the debt ceiling, France and Germany did. So much for the EU protecting smaller countries.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    yeah, i read that this morning.

    but it's not as if the irish didn't know this, how they must be chuckling!

    especially as there is apparently not much difference between French and irish corporation tax rates once you factor in various disbursements, and subsidies.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 03-14-2011 at 13:13.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  7. #7
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ubjugated.html

    My favourite part? Ireland and Spain never breached the debt ceiling, France and Germany did. So much for the EU protecting smaller countries.
    My favourite part is the article catering to my dear wish to finally come up with something other than the tired 'communist EUSSR' or 'Superstate Europe'.

    And boy did they deliver!
    'It is as if Merkel has somehow been crowned Magna Mater Europae by the Consilium'.
    So glorious. So beautiful. So utterly...so...so beyond anything.
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  8. #8
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Meanwhile outside of the hysteria of the tabloid universe...


    The deal as described by the reality-based press. In this case, by that bastion of traditional British values such as liberty and capitalism and quiet self-assuredness, the Financial Times:

    Eurozone leaders reach deal on key reforms



    For weeks, European officials had promised that a “grand bargain” of reforms to shore up eurozone finances would be agreed at the end of March.
    The 17 eurozone heads of government surprised many, however, including some within their own ranks, by cutting a deal on almost all the important elements in the early hours of Saturday during an emergency summit in Brussels.

    Leaders committed to increasing the lending capacity of the current rescue fund – the European financial stability facility – from about €250bn to its full, headline level of €440bn ($610bn), making it able to bail out several more eurozone countries should the debt crisis continue to spread.
    A permanent, post-2013 fund – the European Stability Mechanism – will be able to lend up to €500bn, likely to be achieved through stepped-up guarantees from triple-A states and paid-in capital from those with weaker balance sheets.

    The details are likely to be thrashed out by finance ministers at two days of meetings that start today, but they are expected to include a doubling of loan guarantees from triple-A rated states such as Germany and France.

    The deal falls short of expectations, however, in the new tools available to the funds.


    EU officials, including European Central Bank president Jean-Claude Trichet, had long argued that they should be able to do more than just bail out troubled economies. But in the face of German and Dutch resistance, the 17 leaders chose a more limited route. The funds will be able to buy bonds, but only directly from a struggling government – not on the open market – and only after that government agrees to austerity measures similar to those im-posed on bail-out nations.

    The new powers may help struggling countries return to the debt markets more quickly, but because they can only be used in a narrow set of circumstances they are unlikely to have any impact on the current borrowing costs of countries such as Portugal.

    Greece and Ireland

    The two countries currently in bail-outs were offered an easing in their rescue terms in exchange for further austerity measures. Greece took the deal. Athens agreed to sell off €50bn in government assets, for which it will see the interest rate on the EU’s portion of its €110bn bail-out lowered by a full percentage point, to just over 4 per cent.
    It also will now be able to pay its bail-out loans back over 7.5 years instead of the original 4.5 years.
    Given the size of its debt, however, the change is likely to have only a marginal effect on whether Athens will eventually default.

    Ireland rejected the deal. In exchange for a full percentage point decrease of its 6 per cent bail-out loan, the new Dublin government was asked to give up its ultra-low 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate. For Enda Kenny, the new Irish prime minister, the cost was too high.

    ‘Pact for the euro’
    Leaders also agreed to a four-page pact that commits them to closer economic co-ordination and a series of new austerity measures, including caps on government spending, close monitoring of pension schemes, and limits on public sector wage increases.
    As it stands, however, the pact remains an agreement on principles without enforcement. An original German-backed version included the possibility of sanctions for violators. If it were given teeth, the pact could have an impact on national finances, particularly its requirement for “debt brake” laws that automatically prevent governments from breaching EU borrowing limits.

    Budget rules
    The deal also includes subtle but important commitments on the only remaining issue: legislative measures to strengthen EU budget rules.
    Leaders on Friday committed to force countries to close the gap between their current debt levels and the EU’s legal debt limit – 60 per cent of gross domestic product – by 5 per cent each year, a measure opposed by high debtors such as Italy. They also made it harder for politicians to veto fines imposed on recalcitrant debtors.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c58ec20-4...#axzz1GZfn1NZY
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  9. #9
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    oops, portugal decided it doesn't need stable and effective government at a time when markets have already pushed up interest rates past 7%.

    i foresee a Portuguese bailout in short order.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    oops, portugal decided it doesn't need stable and effective government at a time when markets have already pushed up interest rates past 7%.

    i foresee a Portuguese bailout in short order.
    Well to be fair a minority style government does not have the kind of mandate required to fix the finances, having said that it does look like bailout time again.
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