It's hard not to become a Euro sceptic

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yeah, well....MEPs need a salary and they need to have a staff. This itself is not a problem. Their expenses are in line with the European standard. Slightly lower than the costs of British or Italian parliamentarians, slightly higher than those of Sweden or France.

It is of questionable timing to increase expenses in the current austere climate. That's just a pr disaster. Frankly telling of the autism of the European Parliament.
Then again, these increases have been in the pipeline for almost a decade. The Lisbon Treaty increases the tasks and responsibilities of the European Parliament, thus there was always going to be an increase in expenses and facilities. These had to be delayed in order for the Lisbon Treaty to be ratified and implemented.



Europe should cut costs of the EP. Not so by any wages of MEPs, but by ending the monthly exodus to Strasbourg, by decreasing the amount of MEPs, and by limiting the amount of languages spoken. Working languages ought to be reduced to just one. Obviously, French, the language of Bruxelles. The EP is in favour of forcing the unemployed to search for jobs abroad, expecting them to simply aquire the foreign language of the country of the job on offer. Obviously, the MEPs will want to set the right example. Their being on the whole very well qualified, it should be no problem for them to do what they would have an unemployed fifty year old steel worker do.

Good to know that the part of my tax money that goes to Europe is being well spent.

Technically, it is not your tax money at all. It is everybody else's tax money. This is because the money will be spend in Brussels, on Brussels offices, taxis, hotels, staff. Belgium is gaining financially from this, and Andres' taxes will go down because of it.

Once more it is shown that the EU is nothing but a covert pan-European power grab by our Belgae overlords.

[InsaneApache]

Give it up Louis. You know it's time to turn to the dark side.

[Furunculus]

"Re: It's hard not to become a Euro sceptic"

really? i have never found it to be much of s struggle.

[Brenus]

Well, I see nothing strange in raising their salaries…

The actual European Union is built on a fraud is lead by Conserva-thieves (US)/Liberals (EU) that are keen to use taxpayers’ money for their own good. All the recommendations issued by this body are in favour of taking money from the poor to give to the rich.
From selling national enterprises built by ours ancestors (with their money) to the “market” (read: their friends, relatives and families), restraining the democratic right of the population (when it is not denying it as for the Treaty of Lisbon) to the obligation for the states to borrow money on the “market” (read: the Private Banks, yes, the same that were bailed out with the taxpayers’ money) at a rate fixed by a office controlled by the banks, all is done to sell Europeans to the market.
And the most funny things is the Banksters will borrow the money from the European Central Bank at around 0 % and impose a rate up to 14 % based on their evaluation of the country economy and, of course, policies

Few examples:
The un-elected body (the Commission) will first see if the budget of each nation matches with the Stability Pact. If not if will be automatic penalties. The fact is Finances are not in the EC’s field of action but are still the Countries’ prerogatives. But hey, who cares?
To impose the automatism of the penalties (this is too openly not democratic) they want to introduce a “rule of inverse majority”. All right, if 2/3 of the assembly doesn’t vote against the sanctions will be imposed.
Simple: In casual language if 2/3 of the Parliament doesn’t oppose a law, the law is passed…
That is a new democracy marching for you…

Europe can yet decide to put penalties on Countries if they don’t follow the rules imposed by the European Central Bank (28/10/2010 directive)…
So, if an elected Government want to increase the minimum wage and the Director of the European Central Bank decides it is against the “rules”, poof, penalties fall upon it.
And this even if the country’s economy is in good health. It is a matter of rules.
Of course, the un-elected Commission will decide who break the rules, following vague “guide lines” or “economical indicators” whatever it means.

So, de facto, the Conserva-thieve (US)/Liberal (EU) Europe is enforcing rules to prevent more progressive/left Governments to act on their proposals. It is a constant effort to dismantle and destroy the Social Right and Protection gained by the past generations under the pretext of “modernisation” and “realism” and “market laws”.
They disguised this return to the 19th Century under new vocabulary. “Self employed” for daily workers, “Big Society” for no more Protection from the State for the weak and the poor etc.
Their favourite tactic is to change the words meaning.
The “rigidities” are always what protects the workers, pensioners and employees. This just follows blindly the IFM policies, policies that never ever work but are still the Conserva-thieves (US)/ Liberals (EU)’s economical Bible.
To get money when you lose your job will become an allowance to push people to find a job (basically guys, if you loose your job and don’t find one, it is because you are a lazy scrounger) and linked to your effort to find one or a formation. Forgetting of course that you paid for this “right” when you were working…
And, of course, Hedge Funds will become the rules for Pension, as they are so efficient to make money and disappear.
All this good money out of the “Private” sector, so close, so tempting and still so far, out of reach… The “democratic” Europe has to do something about it and give he money to its legitimate owners, the Rich.

I was, and still, a Pro-European. I still believe in a democratic Europe. But, with the imposition against the will of countries (in which 2 of the founders of the EU – France and Holland) of the European Constitution camouflaged in the Lisbon Treaty, the EU is going of the road of a soft fascist state where all opposition to the rules imposed by an economical model will be banned by “laws”.

[InsaneApache]

I was, and still, a Pro-European. I still believe in a democratic Europe. But, with the imposition against the will of countries (in which 2 of the founders of the EU – France and Holland) of the European Constitution camouflaged in the Lisbon Treaty, the EU is going of the road of a soft fascist state where all opposition to the rules imposed by an economical model will be banned by “laws”.

I too used to be committed to the EEC but then it changed. To the EC. Then it changed again. To the EU. That's not what we signed up for. Give it time and everyone who doesn't work for the bastards will hate them and all their works....

[HoreTore]

Pocket change.

I don't care at all.

[InsaneApache]

Pocket change.

I don't care at all.

I wonder why?

[Furunculus]

Few examples:
The un-elected body (the Commission) will first see if the budget of each nation matches with the Stability Pact. If not if will be automatic penalties. The fact is Finances are not in the EC’s field of action but are still the Countries’ prerogatives. But hey, who cares?
To impose the automatism of the penalties (this is too openly not democratic) they want to introduce a “rule of inverse majority”. All right, if 2/3 of the assembly doesn’t vote against the sanctions will be imposed.
Simple: In casual language if 2/3 of the Parliament doesn’t oppose a law, the law is passed…
That is a new democracy marching for you…

I was, and still, a Pro-European. I still believe in a democratic Europe. But, with the imposition against the will of countries (in which 2 of the founders of the EU – France and Holland) of the European Constitution camouflaged in the Lisbon Treaty, the EU is going of the road of a soft fascist state where all opposition to the rules imposed by an economical model will be banned by “laws”.

welcome to the EU, a kratos that can never be legitimate because there is no unified demos whose collective will it can represent, an entity whose only possible response to its impossible task is to create glorious fudges that represent the will of no-one and then seek to make itself ever more remote from the people it claims to represent to shield itself from their fury.

[Louis VI the Fat]

welcome to the EU, a kratos that can never be legitimate because there is no unified demos whose collective will it can represent, an entity whose only possible response to its impossible task is to create glorious fudges that represent the will of no-one and then seek to make itself ever more remote from the people it claims to represent to shield itself from their fury.

No, there is no collective will indeed. This is not some democratic deficit, but the very object, the very rationale for democracy. There is no collective wil because we are not North Korea. European democracy is made up of individuals. We are all different, with competing, sometimes conflicting and sometimes conversing wishes.

Outside of the ant colony and communist propaganda there is no 'unified will of the people'. See, to me, that is totalitarianism, the wish for a state that represents some imaginary unified will of a people. Give me liberal democracy and individuality any day, and bless the EU for spreading and protecting it across this cursed continent.



*doublechecks Andres' pockets for any remaining coins*

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No, there is no collective will indeed. This is not some democratic deficit, but the very object, the very rationale for democracy. There is no collective wil because we are not North Korea. European democracy is made up of individuals. We are all different, with competing, sometimes conflicting and sometimes conversing wishes.

Outside of the ant colony and communist propaganda there is no 'unified will of the people'. See, to me, that is totalitarianism, the wish for a state that represents some imaginary unified will of a people. Give me liberal democracy and individuality any day, and bless the EU for spreading and protecting it across this cursed continent.



*doublechecks Andres' pockets for any remaining coins*

Nonsense and you know it. Any functional Polis must be homogemous in outlook and aspiration in order to be effective, in a democratic system minorities are automatically oppressed - so you all have to be (mostly) the same for it to work.

The EU oblisously isn't a democracy because the majority (nominally Eurosceptic) is being oppressed.

As it isn't a dictatorship it must be an oligarchy with a democratic sop.

ergo, it is the Roman Republic.

Ave Res Publica!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well at least this week the EU is acused of fascism (Andres, Frags), instead of the more common communism. With some luck it'll be the 'European Islamofascist Union' next week, although I'm really hoping for 'mEUssolini Syndicalist Union'.


And all that for the EP voting to implement extra funds for staff to cope with the expanded workload the Lisbon Treaty put on the EP.

Well, I see nothing strange in raising their salaries…

They didn't. The staff got a raise in salaries, not MEPs. You know, the people working for 2000 euros a month. They get a wage increase.



*steals the favourite toy of Andres jr*

[InsaneApache]

There was I thinking that communism and fascism were two cheeks of the same arse. One picks on everyone, equally; whilst t'other like to pick and choose a bit more.

A bit like Woolworths.

[Andres]

Yeah, well....MEPs need a salary and they need to have a staff. This itself is not a problem.

Oh, they need staff? And what are those legions of European Civil Servants for?? To play with their thumbs while the poor MEPs use their own money to hire people who actually work?

Civil Servants who, btw and completely aside because it's of course "populism", don't have to pay taxes in my country but pay some joke of a Eurotax instead.

Their expenses are in line with the European standard. Slightly lower than the costs of British or Italian parliamentarians, slightly higher than those of Sweden or France.

I don't know about Parliamentarians abroad, but those in Belgium, and we have legions of those (all coming from with nepotism infested political families, or should we just call a spade a spade an call them the new Belgian nobility and, why not, abolish this so called democracy and make seats in Belgian parliaments (all 5 (or is it 6 or 7?)) hereditary; also absenteism gallore in our Parliaments!), get extraordinary wages, at least by the standards of the common taxpayer (maybe not in comparison with other highly paid nitwits). 20 years in Belgian Parliament is also considered to be a full career and gives them the right to get a full pension, which is about 3 or 4times the max pension of a common employee. Not to mention all others bonuses and benefits these clowns get. But I digress, it's not about Belgian robber gangs here.

So, no, Louis, European MEPs getting similar salaries and gifts as other shameless grabbers of taxmoney is not exactly a justification in my book.

It is of questionable timing to increase expenses in the current austere climate. That's just a pr disaster.

Questionable timing? You sound like an old school CVP member now. "Questionable timing"? What's next? "They should look into it and address the issue" and then form a Commission?

It's not "questionable timing"; it's spitting and slapping in the face of the common man who pays his taxes and at the same time showing him the middlefinger and laughing in his face.

Frankly telling of the autism of the European Parliament.

Autism? It's not autism. They know very well what they're doing.

It's a level of arrogance that makes you wonder if the electric chair is punishment enough for them.

Then again, these increases have been in the pipeline for almost a decade. The Lisbon Treaty increases the tasks and responsibilities of the European Parliament, thus there was always going to be an increase in expenses and facilities. These had to be delayed in order for the Lisbon Treaty to be ratified and implemented.

Oh yeah, the treaty they used to sneakily impose a constitution the general public doesn't want. The general public being those same taxpayers that are now being spit at by their representatives.

Europe should cut costs of the EP. Not so by any wages of MEPs, but by ending the monthly exodus to Strasbourg, by decreasing the amount of MEPs, and by limiting the amount of languages spoken. Working languages ought to be reduced to just one.

Oh no, we're not going to cut in the wages of MEPs. Oh no, the idea alone!!! Just like all politicians, they tell the people that they'll have to do extra efforts to get the EU out of the crisis, but of course, our benevolent politicians won't do a bit of effort themselves. What horrible thoughts! A politician cutting in his own salary! Who do those petty taxpayers think they are.

In France, they used to chop off the heads of the classes who thought like that.

Obviously, French, the language of Bruxelles.

Thnx for the cheap provocation. English will do. And if it really has to be the language of Bruxelles, then you'll have to learn Arabic.

Technically, it is not your tax money at all. It is everybody else's tax money. This is because the money will be spend in Brussels, on Brussels offices, taxis, hotels, staff. Belgium is gaining financially from this, and Andres' taxes will go down because of it.

And housing prices in the region where Andres wants to live reach the sky, because of civil servants who don't have to pay the same taxes as Andres and the taxes they pay, don't even go to the country that is so kind to have them as guests.

Once more it is shown that the EU is nothing but a covert pan-European power grab by our Belgae overlords.

Europe should stop seeing Belgium as an example.