It's hard not to become a Euro sceptic

[Andres]

No, there is no collective will indeed. This is not some democratic deficit, but the very object, the very rationale for democracy. There is no collective wil because we are not North Korea. European democracy is made up of individuals. We are all different, with competing, sometimes conflicting and sometimes conversing wishes.

Outside of the ant colony and communist propaganda there is no 'unified will of the people'. See, to me, that is totalitarianism, the wish for a state that represents some imaginary unified will of a people. Give me liberal democracy and individuality any day, and bless the EU for spreading and protecting it across this cursed continent.

Oh, cut the patronising rhetoric already.

In the countries that were coureagous enough to organise a referendum, the population said no to the European constitution. I think you know very well what the result in most other countries would have been, had they organised a referendum.

Now, you may not like that idea and it may very well be your opinion that the masses are stupid, but normally, in a democracy, when the population says "no", their representatives should respect that (even if the population says "no" for the sole reason they don't trust their politicians and not so much for what the constitution is about an sich). Which they didn't.

You can throw all your rhetoric at us for weeks, but it won't change the fact that something as fundamental as a constitution was imposed on a population that either wasn't even consulted or, if they were consulted, said no. And this is 2011. And we're talking about existing democracies that run fine, not some newly found country, so it was perfectly possible to consult them and everything would be just fine if the answer would have been "no" and if that answer had been respected.

Well at least this week the EU is acused of fascism (Andres, Frags), instead of the more common communism. With some luck it'll be the 'European Islamofascist Union' next week, although I'm really hoping for 'mEUssolini Syndicalist Union'.

Can you quote the post in which I called the EU a fascist organisation, please?

If we're not going to have an honest debate, then I'm out of here. Please, don't mischaracterize me.

Besides, if that's the best you've got, then you're probably wrong

I fail to see why the EU should be above all criticism and why the slightest criticism puts me automatically in the camp of "anti-EU". I'm not against the EU per se, but you won't see me cheering for excesses by politicians, not even if it are members of your holy EU.

And if there is reason for criticism, then I will out my criticism. If this were some game we're discussing, I'd call you "fanboy".

If you love the EU and if you want your EU to stay and to be heatlhy to a certain degree, then constantly criticising and whining is what you need to do, not worshipping.

And all that for the EP voting to implement extra funds for staff to cope with the expanded workload the Lisbon Treaty put on the EP.

The Lisbon Treaty that imposed a constitution that the population doesn't want. But that's something you conveniently ignore, of course.

And then you conveniently ignored the question "what are the legions of European Civil Servants for?"

They didn't. The staff got a raise in salaries, not MEPs. You know, the people working for 2000 euros a month. They get a wage increase.

Yes, non elected people who don't have to pass tests or exams to prove their competences. Now, that in itself might be acceptable in a private company (allthough I strongly dislikes fils/filles-à-papas), if it weren't for the fact that they're paid with taxmoney. Nepotism and taxmoney is not a combination I like.

*steals the favourite toy of Andres jr*

I have a sharp axe in my cellar