Again, don't address my points. And make up new ones.
Oh the humanity.

That's it. I give up. Sending him back in time to any hoplite battle is the only way he will be convinced. Oh bloody.
Doesn't seem like there's much point but I'll indulge you.

I can draw a 10 foot soldier with medieval armor and greek shield. But that doesn't make it true is it? It's not a matter of drawings, it's one of actual real life.
Artistic License eh?

Etruscan hoplite. Fought like greeks too. Overarm.
Ah yes how could I forget. These same guys then went on to conquer the world.........oh wait, no they didn't.

No, in fact it would have been easier to rout in an 8 rank deep phalanx than a 256 phalangite unit, or a maniple. As you can clearly see what the bloody is happening about 20 yards away or less. Also you have horns and music and screams to drop the shields. And you just scream "Drop your shields" and try to move back until you can actually move back and get the hell away.
Oh really? So its easier to rout in a closely packed formation than a loose order one?

Mention any other melee weapon known and used by the greeks other than swords. Also, you seem to think that "If x was so bad, then it would have been phased out". It doesn't happen that way. Swords were useful, it doesn't mean
You expect me to say that they should have used axes, or maces? Or that they indeed did use them? Why would I do that? That first point makes no sense at all.



@Ibrahim

looking at 1:26, I might be convinced, though I see no evidence of an opposing force, or that they are charging-they're simply men running in formation to a place. he doesn't address that fact. nor does he address the fact that some very serious scenery-like on the chigi vase, show two forces charging at one another over arm.
Point taken.

and @ 1:44: that's neither under or over: it's just a bunch of Greeks running with their spears upright-compatible with either. that's why I made the point that he just tells you the fact-and expects you to agree: it's one thing to show a picture and declare it to mean sth: it's another to actually look at it yourself and think about it.
Not really, upright using an overarm grip would be incredibly awkward compared to underarm.

and many of these scenes are also of individual combat: in that scenario, either could work, though I do agree underarm was more sensical there. one thing I must point out though is that much of these vases are clearly depicting scenes from mythology-especially Homeric mythology. the Greeks knew people fought differently then-the Illiad pretty much says so. and since those were from the days prior to the phalanx, I doubt they can be used to infer much about the phalanx.

I do agree with him though, the Greeks were stylized in depicting their heroes: Nudity symbolized that well. but again, the Chigi vase, and many others, show them in full panoply, in formation, overarm. and depiction of same in individual combat, does show that the soldiers used underarm. again, see the link I provided.
I agree that he hasn't really explained them in enough detail; many of those could indeed be from mythology, he doesn't say. On another more tangential note, what of later works such as the Bayeux Tapestry? IIRC, it shows someone getting his helmet cleaved in two by an opponents sword, something that is impossible to do. Was it perhaps the case that war wasn't as close to home as it was for Ancient Greeks?

yes, they did ditch the phalanx, when the manipular structure and the legion were perfected: that's also when the Hastati/principes began using swords as the primary melee weapon.

and the first part of your statement makes no sense: especially as I never said, or even implied that. I simply stated that the soldiers you gave as an example simply didn't fight like hoplites-they were more "hands on", with sword and shield. now had you said they were the same men were from before the adoption of the legionary structure and later the maniples-before which their main equipment was the spear, then yes, they were in a phalanx.
I didn't mean to imply that you were saying otherwise, I simply wanted to make my own point clearer. I'm trying to say that the later manipular and legionary structures were better than the older hoplite phalanx. This would then make me question why the Greeks stuck to it for so long.

yeah it could turn quickly-most battles pretty much ended up like that, and it would certainly be harder to escape if you're in the front. but again, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be any harder for the rear to run then in other battle types. as mentioned before, the killing really escalated when the routing began (which was also the case in any battle back then), and men began to run. again, it's clear we don't fundamentally disagree about that either. the main issue here is that while it could get real bloody for the loser, it never really for the most part ended up like say, Cynocephalae: we don't see whole armies cut down in Greek on Greek action. and the reason was given-at least in my estimation-for that. once the men began to run and put some distance from the enemy-often by dropping equipment-they could eventually outrun the enemy. not before obviously quite few men were cut down running.
This is what I've been driving at, the back ranks could rout as easily as any other soldier, but the front ranks have to content with the close quarters of allies as well as the forward momentum of the enemy. I can see how battles were so decisive even with low casulties. The men in the front were the more experienced of the unit, and they didn't have the luxury of being able to fight another day.