The Problem With The War On Drugs

[Jaguara]

OMG, I figured this was going to be a revoke-the-war-on-drugs, reel in the powers of police, and give us back our civil liberties (War on Drugs does not just impact druggies, just like 99.99% of the people affected by the Patriot act are not terrorists, terrorist-sympathysers or have even read a book about terrorism)

You want a country where the Death Penalty is used for all sorts of things...well, take a look at such paradises as North Korea and Iran.

The biggest problem with the Death Penalty, especially in the US, is wrongful conviction. You can't just say "oops, we made a mistake, turns out you were innocent after all, have a nice time trying to put back together your life...", no instead it is telling a family "Oops, sorry, but when we killed him we reasonably thought he was guilty...".

Drugs are bad..OK, but so is alcohol. Some studies would say alcohol is much worse than several drugs...and very few would disagree that alcohol is responsible for more societal problems and violence than cannibis. Remember how well prohibition worked?

As long as there is money to be made, there will be people who are despirate enough, stupid enough, or greedy enough to try. And Mexico and Colombia do not need to be torn apart even further by more violence trying to purge them of drug production. We can't even stop drug production within the US, what makes you think you can stop it in the bloody jungle.

All of this is very naieve, if you ask me.

.... or we could just legalize drugs and allow people to take responsbility for their own decisions?

Well, legalization combined wih treatment has worked in some places.

One key element of legalization is that you both effectively eliminate the criminal component (since you make it unprofitable for them). If anyone who wanted could grow a Cannibis plant in their backyard, do you think drug dealers could make anything selling it?

Another is that you remove a lot of the very dangerous elements from drug use - dirty needles, drugs being misrepresented, being pushed harder drugs without knowing (A lot of different things are sold as ecstacy...).

Anyway, to quote Princess Leia,

the more you tighten your grip, the more systems that slip through your fingers...

. To be honest, it is true. Study after study has shown that treatment and regulation work better than the authoritarian hard-line punishment approach.

But I know this post is 99.9% likely to be a waste of time and energy, but what the heck, maybe someone in here has an open mind.

[Vuk]

One key element of legalization is that you both effectively eliminate the criminal component (since you make it unprofitable for them). If anyone who wanted could grow a Cannibis plant in their backyard, do you think drug dealers could make anything selling it?

If anyone could grow a cornstalk in their backyard, do you think that rich, land-owning farmers could make anything selling it?
There is the matter of land needed (try growing it in a back alley), time needed, etc.

[ajaxfetish]

If anyone could grow a cornstalk in their backyard, do you think that rich, land-owning farmers could make anything selling it?
There is the matter of land needed (try growing it in a back alley), time needed, etc.

How's the black market corn trade doing?

Ajax

[Jaguara]

If anyone could grow a cornstalk in their backyard, do you think that rich, land-owning farmers could make anything selling it?
There is the matter of land needed (try growing it in a back alley), time needed, etc.

I am sorry, but that is about the most laughable comparison I have ever heard. Do you know what the wholesale price for corn is? The only way to make money on corn is with massive factory farms and economies of scale.

As Ajax, pointed out there is not a huge "blackmarket" trade in corn (though there is some small-time underground/roadside selling) and no criminal trade in corn.

Legalization & regulation of pot removes the criminal element from it's ditribution. It does not stop abuse, that is why you also need to fund treatment. Compare to alcohol, again since legalization, it is controlled and taxed, and the criminal element in alcohol distribution (which thrived during prohibition) has mostly been eliminated. The best part is that taxes on the controlled substance can fund the treatment programs.

So, if you legalize or at least de-criminalize these things, removing the profit for criminals, you also solve the problems of drug wars in Mexico and Colombia. If there is no longer the promise of ultra-profits, then you remove the incentive. They can either grow for legit distribution at a tiny fraction of previous profits, or plantations go back to producing coffee. There certainly is nothing to shoot each other over.

The other aspect that you are ignoring, while harping about drug crime deaths, are the deaths and lives destroyed due to the war on drugs itself. Until you get that far there is no point in trying to go into more difficult concepts such as "Is the war on Drugs intended to fail, and so to be a perpetual war never making gains". Ignore as well the corruption in institutions of Colombia & Mexico (?and even the US?) where they are tied into that same drug trade. In Mexico a General will raid one cartel, because he gets pay offs from their competitors. As long as there are ultra-profits in drugs, corruption will go hand-in-hand.

The only way to eliminate the criminal elements of drug production & distribution is to remove the ability to profit, or reduce the profit margins to the point where they are not worthwhile.

[Scienter]

One key element of legalization is that you both effectively eliminate the criminal component (since you make it unprofitable for them). If anyone who wanted could grow a Cannibis plant in their backyard, do you think drug dealers could make anything selling it?

Another is that you remove a lot of the very dangerous elements from drug use - dirty needles, drugs being misrepresented, being pushed harder drugs without knowing (A lot of different things are sold as ecstacy...).

Anyway, to quote Princess Leia, . To be honest, it is true. Study after study has shown that treatment and regulation work better than the authoritarian hard-line punishment approach.

But I know this post is 99.9% likely to be a waste of time and energy, but what the heck, maybe someone in here has an open mind.

I agree with your post.

I think that legalization + treatment is a good option. Alcohol is a drug, too. People can use it responsibly or not. There are laws in place to punish people who abuse alcohol and hurt other people as a result (DUI, etc.). Why not treat other drugs the same way? Mostly I'm in favor of legalizing marijuana first and then seeing what happens. I know that heroin is physically addictive and I don't know what kind of burden a legalization + treatment program would put on the gov't.

Yes, the black market will still exist. But I think for some drugs (marijuana, for example), people would be more willing to buy it at a store than from a drug dealer and I think that taking business away from drug dealers is a good thing.

Legalize it, tax the out of it, and slap a health warning on it like we do with alcohol and cigarettes. Make the penalties for driving while high the same as driving while drunk. In other words, treat it like the drug that is already legal.