Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

[Earthling]

Ah, coming out with a second round of really baseless accusations before even hearing a response. I'll say come at me too, I think it quites adds up by now you're a chaotic or other non-evil and we'll see what happens.

Two things and I think it's a full response to everything relevant, everything I know anyway.

I've got an alternate theory, Earthling.

It was you who zapped Renata with your stupid silence ability.

Major, that was a bad claim the first time you insinuated it and it's still bad. True, neither of us can "prove" it right now but it doesn't matter to me. I'm going to come right out and say I fully trust that Renata didn't try to silence me and the conclusion follows she's not a scum as so much scum effort is probably behind that and her attempted lynch.

Otherwise, I doubt two independent people have this as their night ability, and I really doubt one non-scum person has a regular night ability to silence 2+ people a night, prevent them from wagering and so on. My first thought was that this was a one-time event for some other reason, but the recent theory that this related to some "nexus" of night actions really makes sense. And either of those two ways, a third person was the cause of this, that's settled here and now, so yes, I'm being repetitive about it but it's a huge sort of thing and the best lead or anything I can go after right now anyway.

So the question is why are you trying to dogpile on me?

I kinda said this before but I'll list all of it to be clear. It's a combination of thread voting behavior that could be easily explained by scumminess, and secondly, as I mentioned, a strong indication that you are assuming things are or are not true that are completely inconsistent with a townie Role PM.

Your first claim about siding with Seon on the lynch was that you just didn't understand how betting worked and wanted to jump in and make a profit. Really, it could be true, but we can't just take that at face value. If I had been able to post during the day at any time I certainly would have pointed this out and gone for you as a lynch candidate over Renata.

As for the second important point, there is a huge swath of evidence here that strikes me as odd. And you've been active this whole time so I don't think to me it's fair game to have overlooked the rules or your own PM or something by now, even if that's supposedly typical around here but I wouldn't know that. What you've said would indicate you are paying attention and making solid analysis of what's going on - at least, if you were a townie.

Yet then you overlook really obvious things that you'd think you would catch but a scum may let slide. You act all surprised that, say, a member of the Bizarro faction came up neutral and another evil or that "cover roles" could exist on various factions after Seon died. You suggested the "Evil Mafia" faction could have up to 8 members and this is extremely inconsistent with what I'd expect any townie's PM to suggest about any faction, their own or a rival's. I've got a really, really strong indication that at least a couple of the mafia factions total around 4 or 5 members and several other players suggest their impression is the total is around 9 or 10 factions. Yet you claimed things like "multiple factions per side" (evil vs. chaotic) and get all this way off. For any player taken in a vacuum lots of stuff like this it's an indication there's something extremely different about their Role PM, information it lacks or additional scum information it has, in either case non-townie.

And all the claims from you about vigilantes and writeup analysis have seemed highly discouraging and anti-town. Not to mention how you implied people will be killed based on how the items were voting and all the mutual alliances there. 10% self-defense or retaliation from a townie perspective doesn't lend itself to being a "big deal" but that's kinda what you imply - you're not alone on this count, but you were active in all of that item mess. You also claimed to be attacked yourself and survived, and only Ironside says he did that among other people. At the very least by the end of this phase I'd like to find out more of the truth behind that story.

As for the actual kills, maybe on aside here but it could relate to the above, I just had an observation to present. I think everyone attacked by a "dark figure" was attacked by the chaotics - the others could have been vigs, but that would be three total including Seon due to the chaotics. Looking at the kills, it seems like Seon killed ByzKnight specifically to get him off of his back in the future. Given that they had no expectation Seon were die it probably took the chaotics by surprise that he did, that conclusion is inescapable and in fact part of why so many of you voted Renata - but it could go for others just as easily.

[Seon]

Keep coming up with these crazy theories and inane schemes to catch crooks, people.

At this rate, I expect you to find all the crooks by the final day, when I rise from the grave to slit all your throats.

[Earthling]

To address his second reply, though we're really want to hear from others anyway. I see no need to address threats against me and stuff like that because it's not going to change my plans and I already knew the risk of being killed by scum over this silencing deal was there from the start.

By duping people into spending money to defend themselves after the first nights murder frenzy, the Chaotics will eventually be able to out bet anyone on lynches in conjunction with the silence ability.

See, here's a hallmark of a hasty scum reply. Earlier, you were basically suggesting that anyone could have had the silence ability, and it could be harmless and doesn't make them scum, Renata and myself just wound up silenced independenty of any underlying cause, etc... Yet here, you clearly imply that you believe it's a purely chaotic thing.

Is that actually what you believe? That the silencing is due to the scum? And then surely you'd be willing to go to whatever ends to get to the bottom of it if it's a clear thing to do to fight the scum? In fact, if you believe that one of either me or Renata was the victim of the silencers and the silencers are the chatoics, you should furthermore believe that's proof that said victim is NOT scum and be going all out to set them up as a townie leader, just about as much as someone who was proven to have survived an attack from the scum.

[ByzantineKnight]

Oh, and I take back what I said about Major going after Earthling like that? You do realize that having that ability may be item related and Earthling wasn't necessarily calling you scum, right? But your response is awful :P

Bad Major!

[Seon]

Oh, and I take back what I said about Major going after Earthling like that? You do realize that having that ability may be item related and Earthling wasn't necessarily calling you scum, right? But your response is awful :P

Bad Major!

If only things were that simple...but it never really is that simple, is it?

[ByzantineKnight]

If only things were that simple...but it never really is that simple, is it?

Pancake.

[Earthling]

You do realize that having that ability may be item related and Earthling wasn't necessarily calling you scum, right?

Nah, to be clear, I was calling him scum. As soon as I found out Renata was also silenced I've been working on the assumption the whole silencing ability is very scummy, in general. Your theory was a very new idea to me I hadn't thought of, but then when I realized my last night's action on Major which appeared to just be harmless could have been related, it was in part because I already thought he was scummy that I posted. If I thought it was solely some "self-defense" item and not also scummy I would have tried to think of a way to talk more to Renata, (but I couldn't claim any non-credit night actions in private to her) after you posted that, but before I said more on thread.

[Major Robert Dump]

Your reasons for not believing Renata scum cannot also apply to you. First off, your revisionist mafia history is a little tiring. Renata did not "almost" get lynched, and as someone with no connection to Renata one would think I would lead that bandwagon. It was never even close, and at any time she could have showed up to defend herself were she faking, and no one would have been the wiser because she would not have had any link to the silenced person whatsoever. In terms of this so called "evidence" it applies even less to you. Your name barely came up in terms of lynching. Yet you crawl out of the woodwork and start making accusations based on "patterns" and numbers of teams and whatnots.

I find the timing of your accusations to be suspect since they came right after I pointed out that perhaps one of the "victims" was not a victim at all.

Also, you said You suggested the "Evil Mafia" faction could have up to 8 members and this is extremely inconsistent with what I'd expect any townie's PM to suggest about any faction, their own or a rival's

I made no claim that the info came from a role PM. Yet you also suggest that I should know based on my townie-PM that a faction can have multiple alignments, I should know that Chaotic has cover roles, and I should know how many factions and how many faction members there are? Interesting....because my townie PM had none of that info, and you would probably know that were you a townie. What it did have, was info which told me who my faction enemies are. It did not tell me who my other faction members were, nor did it tell me any of my enemies. Some peoples PMs may have had some Easter Eggs like that, but they were far and few between and for very special roles I am sure. Your argument holds even less water when one considers that the rules are there for everyone to read, and my overlooking something buried deep in the rules in no way proves what faction I am in. As of day 2, people were still asking under what circumstances they would win their credits back after a bet. Are they Chaotic too?

[thefluffyone93]

Pancake.

THIS.

I concur with this statement.

[Seon]

Pancake.

...

I aten't dead yet.

...

Could somebody get the darn body off of me?!

[ByzantineKnight]

Nah, to be clear, I was calling him scum.

No, I meant saying that it was him that silenced you and Renata didn't mean for sure he was scum, being item based it is neutral. His response was scummy though.

EDIT: Cleric! Rez plzz!? I want to try some of fluffy's syrup with some tasty Seon-cake and its hard to do that whilst decomposing.

[Major Robert Dump]

Oh, and I take back what I said about Major going after Earthling like that? You do realize that having that ability may be item related and Earthling wasn't necessarily calling you scum, right? But your response is awful :P

Bad Major!

He very clearly suggested that I silenced both him and Renata with some uber ability. How is that not accusing me? Then he posts that he never said it was a scum ability, and I never said it was a scum ability, but then when I do suggest its a scum ability that it means that I know its a scum ability and therefore I must be scummy. This is rich.

Even richer is this mystery action he used on me. Notice that he loves to throw around that factoid, but fails to tell what action it was.

[Seon]

No, I meant saying that it was him that silenced you and Renata didn't mean for sure he was scum, being item based it is neutral. His response was scummy though.

EDIT: Cleric! Rez plzz!? I want to try some of fluffy's syrup with some tasty Seon-cake and its hard to do that whilst decomposing.

If you get rezzed and I don't, then I am coming back as a zombie to kill you.

[Earthling]

To the latest response - I've said from the beginning that this silencing business was particularly scummy. I never suggested it was a mundane ability of a non-scum, I proposed at the start it could have been a one-time event related to Byzantine's death but if not that, it would be a scum. As for you, Major, your responses are speaking for themselves. I posted only that, as the nexus/ByzKnight's theory would suggest I did use a night action on you and Renata or someone else might have too, hence you would have been the nexus where this silencing came from Night One. You don't even have proof to deny that, yet your first instinct was to accuse your accuser of being scum on shaky reasoning.

I made no claim that the info came from a role PM.

It came from somewhere though, the point being it indicates you were not thinking like a townie. How about this - how about you just explain that then? Are you just an enemy of the "Evil Mafia" faction? Why would you think them or alternatively B_Ray2's team could have up to 8 members? Also, the game rules themselves imply that people on the same "faction" can be of different "alignment" (evil/chaotic). So no, you were in error to assume otherwise and act so shocked when a neutral or cover role came up - or you were intentionally acting scummy.

You also reminded me the scummiest thing of all though. I forgot to post it earlier, but:

Your suggestion on what the "playing cards" did was so out of the ballpark it wasn't even wrong. Some people made guesses that are probably wrong, and that happens, but yours just no way could be taken realistically at face value. Very much looked like a deliberate attempt to be completely distracting, this is one of the scummiest things of all so I really should have posted it earlier but remembered it now.

[ByzantineKnight]

If you get rezzed and I don't, then I am coming back as a zombie to kill you.

From my stomach? And whose gonna rez you?

[Seon]

From my stomach? And whose gonna rez you?

True badass don't need no cleric to bring himself out of his early grave. Why, in my days, we got no clerics! Hell, we didn't even get a first aid kit! No, our entire battalion got a single band-aid. To share.

[ByzantineKnight]

True badass don't need no cleric to bring himself out of his early grave. Why, in my days, we got no clerics! Hell, we didn't even get a first aid kit! No, our entire battalion got a single band-aid. To share.

Staph much?

[Major Robert Dump]

What card theory? That this was a game of strip poker and that I had already taken off my pants? Are we not allowed to joke here? You are seriously saying that was meant to distract from the more serious conversation and take the heat off? Or were you talking about the thought that it might be some sort of poker hand we got?
Hello? Were we not told we could vote on items? Could the cards not be construed as items? Item voting had not yet started when I made this theory and I was quite honestly shocked when cards did not come up for votes on the first day.

I'll tell you where my card-to-faction-member theory came from: Because I have lost a faction mate, and the number on my card matches his. Do all the cards match number sets? No, and we all know it from looking at the write ups. But others know that some DO match because their card matches their dead allies card, I highly doubt that I am some random exception. Nice try, though, getting me to tell you which mafia are my enemy. I will tell you what, I will tell you my enemies if you tell me yours, then even if we are lying we will both be screwed.

And while you're at it, be sure and tell us all what "action" you performed on me. Oh....you probably need to find out from Renata is she performed one and what it was so your entire concocted story makes sense.

You are a really good detective. I am glad you found a voting pattern for me in two days, one during which I did not even vote but -- by all of your accounts -- I should have voted for Renata because she was "so close" to getting lynched after I shot purple x-rays out of my butt and silenced everyone. I am also you have found that I am "anti-town" attitude for suggesting who possible murder targets will be based on them having items like faction scanners, and that I have an anti-town attitude for lambasting people after they lynch a man they should have known was innocent because his main accuser freaking said as much.

And for all this "suspicious" posting that I am doing, you are including a distinct lack of my quotes and in most cases not even bothering to paraphrase, instead opting to simply call my actions "scummy" or "suspicious." You are likley aware that people do not like to go back and read pages and pages of spam and text walling, and hope to oversimplify my guilt with a case that simply does not exist.

[Earthling]

For the one thing you think matters but doesn't, I might as well share. It probably doesn't hurt, but it shows how completely irrelevant your point is. I attempted to roleblock you, found out this was not my natural talent, and it should have had no effect at all, but reading things over I did seriously overlook the possibility that this silencing was somehow in retribution. Renata could have attempted any action and the silencing effect could have worked the same way because of sending an order to target you, if that's how it works, so that's why that's not relevant. Now,

I will tell you what, I will tell you my enemies if you tell me yours, then even if we are lying we will both be screwed.

My enemies are the chaotics.

Your turn.

I should have voted for Renata because she was "so close" to getting lynched after I shot purple x-rays out of my butt and silenced everyone.

See, if you're scum you lose major roleplaying points here. If you're going to be all fake angry and sarcastic when you know you're in trouble you actually should drop the character clues. This, this isn't that funny. Going the extra mile to make it great is worth it, if you actually claimed something silly but that really did relate to your character, like if you were scum with a cover role as part of the Star Wars faction or something and "shoot force lightning out of my butt" at least it's lampshading.

[Major Robert Dump]

Oh Earthling. Wow. Just wow. And now I am not funny, either. Now there is a reason to lynch me for sure. I'm certainly glad I have you here to criticize my style and tell me I'm lampshading wrong, whatever that is. By the way, I hate your haircut and you're looking fat these days.

Yes, the actions do matter, because I dare say that a vigilante kill is significantly different than a roleblock. A roleblock would be something that a "block action" action might defeat, whereas a block action would not do anything against an attempted kill, where one would need self defense instead. So, if Renata tried to kill me, then it would make no sense that both of you suffer the same silence result from some sort of blanket affect as the makeup of the actions list indicate that this is a game of rock paper scissors and there are no blanket effects.

I do not believe you that your only enemy is Chaotic, unless you are nuetral.

My enemy are the chaoitics, too!

And two mafia factions.

Funny that you say your enemy is only chaotic. Even funnier is that you want to know how I came to the conclusion about B-Ray, his enemies and faction numbers. B-Ray implicitly stated that, due to a faction scan, YLCs death would serve b-Rays needs. That means B-Ray has something very much in common with me, something you just left out of your enemy claim. Something that I would think a townie would be well aware of, but something someone Chaotic may very well not know, which is why you are so goshdarned confused about where I got my faction numbers from.

[Choxorn]

It can't possibly be silly Day 1 crap. Inconceivable.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Oh, the irony...

ELLIPSES! ZACK IS SCUM!

Bet: 3.14159265357989 credits on Zack


Earthing, MRD, can you two please stop text-walling? It's making the thread even more painful to read than it already is.

[Major Robert Dump]

For the one thing you think matters but doesn't, I might as well share. It probably doesn't hurt, but it shows how completely irrelevant your point is. I attempted to roleblock you, found out this was not my natural talent, and it should have had no effect at all, but reading things over I did seriously overlook the possibility that this silencing was somehow in retribution. Renata could have attempted any action and the silencing effect could have worked the same way because of sending an order to target you, if that's how it works, so that's why that's not relevant. Now,



My enemies are the chaotics.

Your turn.



See, if you're scum you lose major roleplaying points here. If you're going to be all fake angry and sarcastic when you know you're in trouble you actually should drop the character clues. This, this isn't that funny. Going the extra mile to make it great is worth it, if you actually claimed something silly but that really did relate to your character, like if you were scum with a cover role as part of the Star Wars faction or something and "shoot force lightning out of my butt" at least it's lampshading.

Just wanted to get this one quoted for record. Just in case, ya know.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I believe it was WilliamWallace who once consumed the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his butt.

Scratch that, it was he who suffered the Wrath Of el Gigante for inactivity in my Dark Falls game.

[Major Robert Dump]

And when I say B-Ray has something in common with me, I don't mean we are both enemies of the Evil Mafia faction. I mean that I, too, have mafia enemies who are in a different faction than I, and that my goal is to defeat both the chaotics and them. So back the F off of me Evil Mafia, I got no beef with u. Go kill Earthling, since he didn't even know the mafia factions are at war with each other

[thefluffyone93]

Earthing, MRD, can you two please stop text-walling? It's making the thread even more painful to read than it already is.

[Visor]

Hi. Back. Will participate frequentlier.

[Renata]

@ Earthling -- I didn't target MRD last night. If you targeted no one else, then we have no one in common.

[Diamondeye]

*some hilarious troll post*

It's so fluffy I'm gonna die! I wuv you!

My enemy are the chaoitics, too!

And two mafia factions.

What two factions?
Cryptic handshake attempt!

Also, Earthling is giving me headaches. Everything's as it usually is. I am a vampire, etc., and I would be happy if people could use that silence thing every phase please. My head hurts and the pages are so long. I won't hide that I skip Earthling's posts. I have tried reading them like I have tried reading Kafka in Norwegian. It's pretty hard and I give up but I keep telling myself "I'll give it another try later. A lot later."

[Major Robert Dump]

Cryptic indeed, so cryptic in fact that I am even more confused than before.

Can't we all just swear off night actions, save our money, and chip in to buy a classy strip club that will be a front for a larger, more nefarious business ventures?

[Jolt]

I guess the main point of all this discussion is: Should I use my cute pet rabbit to try and chomp someone's hand this night?