Quote Originally Posted by vollorix View Post
I, too, reduced the attack value of all spearmen ( -4 ).
From all the games i´ve played since then i can say the following:
- The Phalangitai units aren´t really concerned, except their ability to fight AI FM, which are rediculously strong anyway ( last time a FM of Epirotes just cut his way through my Deuteroi phalanx, routing 2 units with a little support from Thureophoroi ).
- The Hoplitai Haploi perform now as they should, imo; but the Classical Hoplites suck a lot against sword infantry, especially against "ap" units. I think, one should give them at least 2 attack back ( though, they are still quite cool against horsemen ). On the other hand i use BI.exe and therefore "shieldwall" - if you do, let them as they are, because otherwise they are simply unbreakable/unstopable.
- I haven´t tried the elite units like Agema Ordeton etc. - but since this guys are quite tought anyway, and they can make shieldwall, too, they might be ok.
- Ippikrates Hoplites are normaly underpowered, so to compensate the loss of attack value, and also to make them usefull, i´ve improved their stamina to "very hardy" - now they are quite ok.

That would be all for now, i´ll post some more observations when i have something usefull to say again.
Been awhile since this thread goto started, but since I was one of the primary plantiffs, here's my most recent take on things.....

-4 across the board is imbalanced. So what I did some time back, was introduce a sliding scale, dependant on the units cost, training and supposed abilities.

Levy spearman -4 attack in virtually everycase (same with almost all Archers that have spears as secondary).E.g. Levy Hoplites should be a garrison/peacekeeping force. They should not be line infantry ever. Look at any "suprisingly good unit" thread and Levy Hoplites are right up there. Well take away the 4 attack and they perform very normally, as should be.

The middle spear units, -3 attack, the better ones -2 attack. Phalanx units have double shield value when in phalax mode, so giving them 5 shield (when its a tiny little thing as well) is ridiculous. Normal Phalanx therefore have a "2" shield and Elite Phalanx have "3" shield, in addition to the above modifiers. This makes them slightly susceptible to missile file (instead of impervious as before), but still tough as nails from the front. Autocalc is seemingly unaffected.

These honestly work very well in SP mode (never tried) MP. My last huge campaign was as KH (all spear), current is Mak, having some superb proper mixed full stack action vs a strong AS atm.