Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[Ronin]

seems reasonable considering what is known about certain sectors of the Pakistan government.

[Viking]

CHECK Osama bin Laden killed
CHECK Disastrous tsunami
CHECK Nuclear disaster
CHECK Revolution in Tunisia
CHECK Revolution in Egypt
CHECK Civil war to oust Gadaffi
CHECK Mass unrest in Syria
CHECK Yet another Western military intervention

It's been an eventful year thus far, alright. Looks like the world is going to end in 2012, after all?

So, he's gone - but whether it matters much, remains to be seen.

[Hax]

@The Mad Arab: Your attempt to invoke sympathy for a massmurdering fascist who wished to destroy everything that is culture and reinstate an old oppressive empire is telling.

Telling of what exactly?

Are you accusing me of sympathising with terrorists or fascists? Even if it were true, does that make me an accomplice in the war on terror? Am I too pro-Islamic? Should I be put on trial? Is my criticism of how the western world has interfered in Middle Eastern affairs for roughly the yest century a reason to suppose that I hate the west or that I would rather see an Islamic state? Me, a non-Muslim? I don't think so.

Paraphrasing Robert Fisk, since the 9/11 attacks and even before that, it has become a trend in western intellectual debates concerning the state of the Arab and Islamic world to accuse anyone that is critical of the way the West has handled its affairs in the Middle East of siding or sympathising with terrorists. The very notion of "terrorism" has stifled any real debate, and the irony of this? It means "the terrorists have won".

I like the ideals of the Enlightenment. I think that at the current state our culture is superior to that of the Middle and Far East. I think that we have allowed room for individualism and tolerance and managed not to kill or try anyone that does not agree with the mainstream. Give me Sartre or Kant over Ghazali or indeed Siddharta any day. The very fact that I have been granted the possibility to look more closely at the reasons why al-Qaeda wants to kill people. Did we ever really wonder why? Maybe we didn't. It was a fair pretension to suggest that the "terrorists" just did what they did because they hate freedom and democracy, and that's that. I don't think that's the reason, and the very fact that I'm allowed to think and write down that I think they've got other reasons is what makes the West superior. For the moment.

Also, what "old oppressive empire" are you referring to? The Caliphate? The Ottoman Empire? What empire?

[Skullheadhq]

It appears he had his funeral, I believe it's time to flame him now.

[Warluster]

Paraphrasing Robert Fisk, since the 9/11 attacks and even before that, it has become a trend in western intellectual debates concerning the state of the Arab and Islamic world to accuse anyone that is critical of the way the West has handled its affairs in the Middle East of siding or sympathising with terrorists. The very notion of "terrorism" has stifled any real debate, and the irony of this? It means "the terrorists have won".

I like the ideals of the Enlightenment. I think that at the current state our culture is superior to that of the Middle and Far East. I think that we have allowed room for individualism and tolerance and managed not to kill or try anyone that does not agree with the mainstream. Give me Sartre or Kant over Ghazali or indeed Siddharta any day. The very fact that I have been granted the possibility to look more closely at the reasons why al-Qaeda wants to kill people. Did we ever really wonder why? Maybe we didn't. It was a fair pretension to suggest that the "terrorists" just did what they did because they hate freedom and democracy, and that's that. I don't think that's the reason, and the very fact that I'm allowed to think and write down that I think they've got other reasons is what makes the West superior. For the moment.

You went from entirely criticising the tendency in the West to censor and restrict debate on terrorism to praising our utter freedom of opinion? Doesn't this contradict itself slightly?

The cold truth is, the United States apparently 'declared war on terrorism', and so anyone who sympatheticlly writes about the terrorists will always be branded as a traitor/sympathesizer. Or, to put it in a less biased view - anyone who writes about the extremists motivations.

The fact we can discuss these subjects on a daily basis is proof of the open society we live in... and that your taking his comment out of context a bit too much.

[Lemur]

Good news to read over my morning cuppa. The only shame is that OBL was allowed to strut around for ten years or so.

Yes, the man was a symbol and a figurehead, but symbols have power, and his continued existence was a punchline for all the wrong sorts of speeches. Better this way.

Burial at sea within the Islam-mandated 24-hour framework strikes me as extremely wise. Well done CIA, well done Delta Seals, well done President Obama.

[Hax]

The cold truth is, the United States apparently 'declared war on terrorism', and so anyone who sympatheticlly writes about the terrorists will always be branded as a traitor/sympathesizer. Or, to put it in a less biased view - anyone who writes about the extremists motivations.

The fact we can discuss these subjects on a daily basis is proof of the open society we live in... and that your taking his comment out of context a bit too much.

Which is exactly what I was aiming at. As of the moment, I am able to express these opinions. It would be a great loss to the West if free speech would be stifled to such a degree that one is not able to express their diverging opinions. As I mentioned, it seems that free and open debate is being stifled more and more.

His comment was a personal sleight at me and my opinions concerning Middle Eastern politics. Perhaps my position was unclear, I just wanted to point that out.

You went from entirely criticising the tendency in the West to censor and restrict debate on terrorism to praising our utter freedom of opinion? Doesn't this contradict itself slightly?

As I said, it's a trend that has been increasingly prevalent over the last years, but it's not that bad yet. We shouldn't lose this moral superiority.

[Major Robert Dump]

But what about all the good things Osama did?

Did I read correctly, did he actually get buried within 24 hours? I suppose on one hand it means they stuck with the custom, even though the custom is not conducive to good science and crime solving, and they get kudos for that. On the other hand it reinforces what many Muslims already believe: the world really does revolve around them.

I would have preferred to see him in a museum, or perhaps a comedy act with Joan Rivers.

Movie idea: Weekend at Osama's, where some jihadists use Osamas corpse to help recruit new fighters, and they try and try to keep the new recruits from realizing he is dead (good thing they can't read LAWLZ).

I just copywrited the above, script written last night, I will sue anyone who steals the idea

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

The butcher is no more, thanks, apparently, to the United States.

RIP to his victims all around the world.

Amen. A glorious day here in the US. I was just about to go to bed last night when I heared the news.

Only bad thing is he might have a similiar sick minded person ready to take this place. Hopefully not though.

DOES THIS MEAN OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM??

[Louis VI the Fat]

Dont get me wrong I dont care if we cut the mans balls off and fed them to him but I don't see what we are celebrating.

Oh, what a lot of partay poopers in here.

I remember exactly where I was on 9-11, and I'm celebrating this man's death, yes. I've always had a thing for justice being meted out.






Also, it would appear the Pakistani military elite thought it practical to shelter this man in their midst. In a heavily military patrolled area. Dear oh dear.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Perhaps but it gives people that little shot of America crack to keep our boys dying and debt climbing

Being a wild and crazy Texan I thought you were be in favor of celebrating. Don't tell me you one of those hippes "We should not have invaded at all" people.

[rajpoot]

Good news if he is dead.

The picture of his face (after death) that's been doing rounds on the Pakistani news channels however, is clearly fake.

[Lemur]

And as per usual, Fox News can't help themselves.

The picture of his face (after death) that's been doing rounds on the Pakistani news channels however, is clearly fake.

Just like Obama's birth certificate and the moon landing and the Kennedy assassination and the death of Elvis and Roswell!

[Louis VI the Fat]

And as per usual, Fox News can't help themselves.

Fox is pathetic. It reeks of a continued attempt to subliminally influence people.


Must be a tough day for Fox. Indeed, a tough decade:
'3000 Americans killed in the worst attack on American soil in US history'
Fox / GOP / Bush: 'Let's use public sentiment to spend two trillion dollar of tax money in a confused mix of private and public interest'
Obama: 'I vow to bring the perpetrators to justice'

If I had the vote, the election of 2012 would be over already.

[Lemur]

Here's some very good reporting on the operation.

[Greyblades]

Huh. I realy dont feel anything about this. The guy who ordered 7/7 and 9/11 is dead and I dont realy feel triumphantor proud or even glad. Huh.

Still, I dont realy understand why they dumped the body in accordance to some muslim custom, you'd think the americans would be more inclined to parade the body around or something.

[Lemur]

I dont realy understand why they dumped the body in accordance to some muslim custom, you'd think the americans would be more inclined to parade the body around or something.

According to the reporting coming out, we offered the body to the Saudis and they declined. Burying him in Pakistan would create a shrine for terrorist-wannabes. Bringing the body back to the U.S. would have a whiff of head-on-pike-ism, as you suggest.

Islamic custom is burial within 24 hours. We honored that, and in a manner that neither disrespected nor glorified the jerk.

It's also coming out that the President was advised to bomb the complex, but he sent in the kill team because he wanted proof positive that we got OBL. A risky but smart choice.

-edit-

Couldn't help myself, checked out Fox News' home page. Nice pic of president Bush, lots of headlines about the SEALs, only a tiny, buried reference to the current Prez. Astonishing, really. See if you can find mention of Obama on the page. Warning, it's quite small. (And yes, I know this is a minor, minor point, but I continue to be surprised by the overt, mindless, unthinking hostility to our President, regardless of context and fact.)

[TinCow]

Some people simply deserve to die. I have no moral problems with celebrating the death of people like Bin Laden, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Point out the hypocrisies all you want, as they are certainly there, but it doesn't change the fact that in this specific case I believe this specific man deserved death.

[rajpoot]

Just like Obama's birth certificate and the moon landing and the Kennedy assassination and the death of Elvis and Roswell!

Elvis is alive and is learning karate somewhere in Southern China.

Anyway...if you look at the picture carefully, the beard is almost entirely black as opposed to quite a lot of white which has been visible in his pictures lately. Furthermore, everything including his nose and below has a different complexion than the above part of his face. And I might be wrong in this but I felt that the resolution differed in the top and bottom of the image.

I'd post a link, but it's rather...disturbing so...

[Greyblades]

As long as its only a link instead of the actual image I think the mods would be ok with it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'd post a link, but it's rather...disturbing so...

Wise thought.

The posting of such material is against the forum rules, so please nobody even think of it. It should be perfectly possible for anyone interested to find it on the intertubes themselves.

Thank you kindly.

[Rahwana]

So, buried at sea in 24 hours interval? according to Islamic custom?... hmm.... he actually deserve worse things, but it's OK, USA has a sense of Chivalry afterall.

However this proves that Pakistan is lying to all of us, what now? If this is the time of Medieval wars, the next logical step is exterminating entire Pakistan, but because it's modern war, I can bet soon USA, India, and NATO will invade Pakistan, using this event for Justification.

[Jolt]

I'd post a link, but it's rather...disturbing so...

It's a montage of this picture.

Mirrored so that his chin faces the left. Then they did a ver well done photoshop. But yeah, the picture is very gruesome.

[Gregoshi]

I am completely confused as to what I'm feeling at this moment. In one sense I'm glad justice has been served, but there is no euphoria and some concern as to what this means for the future. Did we strike the heart and soul of AQ? Or did we just provide a super martyr for the cause? One thing I'm relieved about is that we apparently handed his burial appropriately. One concern I had last night as I went to bed was that we'd just make matters worse by mishandling his body.

This is the weirdest feeling I think I've ever had...just wish I knew what it was.

[Lemur]

I can bet soon USA, India, and NATO will invade Pakistan, using this event for Justification.

Like we need any further justification to attack Pakistan?

I trust our leaders will be smart enough to not do something so ill-advised, though. Pakistan has been the real problem for over a decade. Invading them would solve nothing. And don't forget the Pottery Barn rule.

-edit-

Did we strike the heart and soul of AQ? Or did we just provide a super martyr for the cause?

UBL was a symbol. Among other things, he was a symbol of the invincible underdog sticking it to the superpower. Taking him down was the right thing to do, no matter how long it took.

[rajpoot]

However this proves that Pakistan is lying to all of us, what now? If this is the time of Medieval wars, the next logical step is exterminating entire Pakistan, but because it's modern war, I can bet soon USA, India, and NATO will invade Pakistan, using this event for Justification.

Pakistan is supported by China.
Pakistan is a country with nuclear weapons.

India won't do anything.....ever.
USA, well if they really have managed to kill Osama, I don't think they'll want to waste any more time or manpower in the area.

@Jolt
That's exactly it. Now why would someone create a fake picture? Just to boost their channel's ratings?

[Ronin]

@Jolt
That's exactly it. Now why would someone create a fake picture? Just to boost their channel's ratings?

they didn´t even create it....that picture was already floating around the internet.
some pencil pusher at the tv station just went to google to look for a picture of a dead bin laden.
as to why?...sensationalism...ratings...yet.

[Lemur]

Some very good points from a blogger:

1) This is a great moment in American history. There is justice in the world. But where is Ayman al-Zawahiri? Capturing the al Qaeda number-two would close this chapter almost entirely.

2) Pakistan has a great deal of explaining to do -- how could Bin Laden have been living near Islamabad, in a city, Abbotttabad, that is in some ways a military cantonment? This operation will only confirm for many people that Pakistan's intelligence service, the ISI, knew more about the al Qaeda presence in its country then it shared with the U.S..

3) President Obama has laid to rest, at least for everyone not named Donald Trump, the notion that he is some sort of soft-on-terror, Manchurian-candidate stealth-Muslim.

4) American deterrent power is partially restored. The lesson for terrorists: If you commit an act of violence against America, this country will hunt you down until you are dead or in chains.

5) Islamist terrorism is not over. Bin Laden was not an operator, nor was he seemingly in control of operators. Cells may be activated in the coming days, individuals with jihadist goals might take action. This is a dangerous moment. An inevitable moment, but a dangerous one.

6) Al Qaeda is a diminished force, as a terrorist entity. But its ideas will remain potent among a small minority of Muslims, disaffected males in European countries among them.

7) If President Obama is seeking a quicker exit strategy from Afghanistan, he now has one.

[drone]

Saw this late last night, and the celebrations left a sour taste in my mouth. A crowd of people gathered in front of the White House, chanting, singing, waving flags. The only things missing were a flag/effigy burning and AKs being fired into the air and the scene could have been any Middle Eastern capitol. How many times on this forum have we decried the reaction in Arab countries when hits the fan in the West? And "USA, USA" chants everywhere? Really? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that we finally got to him. But there is no reason to celebrate, not when it has taken so long and cost us so much.

Onto analysis, the two-step with Pakistan is the funniest part of this. They want credit for helping us, even though they don't. We want to credit them, even though we don't. I'm not surprised one bit about where he was "hiding" out.

[Lemur]

A crowd of people gathered in front of the White House, chanting, singing, waving flags. The only things missing were a flag/effigy burning and AKs being fired into the air and the scene could have been any Middle Eastern capitol. How many times on this forum have we decried the reaction in Arab countries when hits the fan in the West? And "USA, USA" chants everywhere? Really?

I understand where you're coming from, and you have a point, but I don't think the US citizens' reaction to the execution of an internationally recognized criminal is comparable to, say, the Palestinian celebration of the 9/11 attacks. It's been a decade-long hunt for the front-man responsible for the cold-blooded murder of 3000+ citizens. Some cheering and chest-thumping is warranted.

Another great thought:

As long as the "Global War on Terror" was defined as eliminating all threat of terrorist activity, it could never be ended. That threat -- like other threats -- will never completely go away. But if this admittedly symbolic victory in the "war" can be taken as closing a loop opened ten years ago (and earlier, with previous OBL-inspired attacks), perhaps it could free us to continue the vigilance while beginning to correct the decade-long warping of our values. That is another gift the commandos who carried out this mission may have given America. We will see whether Obama is willing to lead that way, and others are willing to follow.

-edit-

And in sweet irony news, the President's announcement pre-empted Celebrity Apprentice on the East Coast.