Europe Day

[HoreTore]

says the man from a country outside the eu........ :p

Norway is, as they say, more european than any other european country. We have adopted each and every rule, standard, etc that comes from Brüssels. Why? Because the EU is good for not just our economy, but every other economy as well.

The only real difference between Norway and a member state is that the member state has representation and influence, which Norway does not. Almost everything else is the same.

Also, why does it matter where I'm from? Is a Chinese man's dream of democracy ridiculous because he doesn't live in one?

[Peasant Phill]

66 years without a war between the member states.

Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo Dein sanfter Flügel weilt. indeed

[Husar]

Norway is, as they say, more european than any other european country. We have adopted each and every rule, standard, etc that comes from Brüssels. Why? Because the EU is good for not just our economy, but every other economy as well.

That depends, while I generally support the Union etc. I am increasingly getting the impressions that the people who make decisions are not thinking things through, or in other words, not doing their jobs properly.
One indication of course, is that Greece got into the Eurozone by lying and noone noticed they faked their finances.
Another is that we're all forced to use CFLs now but a laboratory working for a german TV magazine apparently found out that they emit carcinogenic gases.
Link is in German because I cannot find one in english, google translate may be of help.
Add to that that if they break, they poison the whole room as well with all the heavy metals etc. in them.
And thanks to the EU, we cannot go back, LED may be an alternative but they're still expensive, not always suited for the same tasks and who knows how poisonous they are?

[HoreTore]

Bah!

[gaelic cowboy]

Another is that we're all forced to use CFLs now but a laboratory working for a german TV magazine apparently found out that they emit carcinogenic gases.
Link is in German because I cannot find one in english, google translate may be of help.
Add to that that if they break, they poison the whole room as well with all the heavy metals etc. in them.
And thanks to the EU, we cannot go back, LED may be an alternative but they're still expensive, not always suited for the same tasks and who knows how poisonous they are?

There is a loophole you market them as heaters due to the element inside the glass and take advantage of purely coincidently illumination.

[HoreTore]

Some people are always afraid of new technology.

Flourescent light is complrtely superior to the old bulb. There is absolutely no advantage to the latter in regards to the former.

This is one of the reasons why the EU is great: it can force through change in spite of the people who are afraid of new technology.

[gaelic cowboy]

Some people are always afraid of new technology.

Flourescent light is complrtely superior to the old bulb. There is absolutely no advantage to the latter in regards to the former.

This is one of the reasons why the EU is great: it can force through change in spite of the people who are afraid of new technology.

Untrue there can be many reasons for the use of either incandessant or flourescent light, you dont dictate such a thing instead you use the correct light for the job in hand.

You dont fix a slate roof with a sledgehammer now do you???

[HoreTore]

Name one.

[gaelic cowboy]

Name one.

If you require a longer lasting bulb incandescent bulbs can be made to last for many many thousands upon thousands of hours instead of the usual 1000 or so they actually did.(purely because of the light bulb manufacturers)

Speed of ilumination is quicker and they do not flicker with age or with low temperature

[Husar]

Some people are always afraid of new technology.

I'm absolutely not afraid of new technology, I love new technology, but only if new means better.
It does actually happen that new turns out to be worse or not entirely thought through, and then it's perfectly reasonable to oppose it.

Flourescent light is complrtely superior to the old bulb. There is absolutely no advantage to the latter in regards to the former.

I just mentioned one, they emit poisonous gases. Nothing that will outright kill you and I haven't taken out mine, but I'm not very fond of things that kill me in the long run.
And they do take longer to turn on, I replaced the lightbulb in my bathroom with a CFL and it takes several minutes until it has reached it's full potential, at first the bathroom is still somewhat dark.
Plus, they die faster if you turn them on and off, the 10 years or however many hours it says on the package may be true if you never turn them off. I had to replace one lately that I bought maybe 3-5 years ago. That's not even half of the 10 years they advertise on the package and it was on a lamp that i hardly turned on in the last two years as well.
Not exactly what I would consider superior technology, all my hopes rest on LEDs now but so far they seem to cost 20€ and upwards if you want anything more than a decorative one that cannot light up an entire room and I had some problems finding ones that fit into my lamps, most of them have weird connectors.

This is one of the reasons why the EU is great: it can force through change in spite of the people who are afraid of new technology.

I generally agree, but this only works if the EU does think things through and considers all angles, if they just go on a hunch or a popular movement without thinking about the consequences then this can be really bad.

[Kralizec]

I just mentioned one, they emit poisonous gases. Nothing that will outright kill you and I haven't taken out mine, but I'm not very fond of things that kill me in the long run.

If you're thinking about mercury (quecksilber, not the planet or the Roman deity), there's so little of it in fluorescent lights that you'd have a more realistic chance of dieing by accidentally cutting yourself with the glass that contains it.
What I find odd though is that while lightbulbs were responsible for less than 1% of all electricity use, the EU decided to ban them for environmental reasons.

[Husar]

If you're thinking about mercury (quecksilber, not the planet or the Roman deity), there's so little of it in fluorescent lights that you'd have a more realistic chance of dieing by accidentally cutting yourself with the glass that contains it.

In that phrase I was referring to the gases the laboratory found that they apparently emit while they're turned on. Just too bad that I can't find an english link but there is also this nice video of a proud Texan talking about them.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm absolutely not afraid of new technology, I love new technology, but only if new means better.
It does actually happen that new turns out to be worse or not entirely thought through, and then it's perfectly reasonable to oppose it.

The new is actually overall better than the old. Cheap CFL's still need to wait a few minutes to reach full light intensity but other than that it really isn't that bad.

I just mentioned one, they emit poisonous gases. Nothing that will outright kill you and I haven't taken out mine, but I'm not very fond of things that kill me in the long run.
And they do take longer to turn on, I replaced the lightbulb in my bathroom with a CFL and it takes several minutes until it has reached it's full potential, at first the bathroom is still somewhat dark.
Plus, they die faster if you turn them on and off, the 10 years or however many hours it says on the package may be true if you never turn them off. I had to replace one lately that I bought maybe 3-5 years ago. That's not even half of the 10 years they advertise on the package and it was on a lamp that i hardly turned on in the last two years as well.
Not exactly what I would consider superior technology, all my hopes rest on LEDs now but so far they seem to cost 20€ and upwards if you want anything more than a decorative one that cannot light up an entire room and I had some problems finding ones that fit into my lamps, most of them have weird connectors.

Send a link about that poisonous gas emissions that is in English. My translator isn't working. Also a report from one lab does not equal proven fact. This needs to be verified and double checked by multiple independent laboratories before you can start saying "it produces poisonous gases" as a fact.

The concept that it is releasing gas does not make sense to me period. It can't be gas within it because if there was a leak the CFL would not work anymore. The only thing it produces is light. The only I can think of is that perhaps some crappy CFL's have toxic paint covers that are used to "soften" the light output that might be getting vaporized by the heat produced after a while.

Your anecdotal evidence about your CFL isn't really compelling. Idk if you bought a cheap one or not or if it was just a dud or if your own bias is reluctant in remembering the times you turned it on and off to reinforce your perception of the CFL technology.

[Husar]

The new is actually overall better than the old. Cheap CFL's still need to wait a few minutes to reach full light intensity but other than that it really isn't that bad.

The one in my bathroom is from Osram and it certainly wasn't cheap, it still takes about 3 minutes to reach full intensity, which is a difference between a dimly lit and a bright white room. I also heard that they don't nearly last 10 years if you turn them off and on somewhat often, which is underlined by the one in my living room failing after less than 5 years. I'm not sure, but it's even possible that I had to replace them a few years ago already.
How often I turned it on and off shouldn't matter because on the package it says they last about 10 years, so if they break after about half that time that's pretty weird.
I didn't change anything to suit my perception of CFLs, I've got a new lamp that I use almost exclusively now, it's also got CFLs by the way.

You're also right that one laboratory doesn't prove a thing but if there is a rumour of that sort, the EU should be checking it or prove it wrong if they have already checked for such problems´ as long as they want to force us to use CFLs.

[Furunculus]

Also, why does it matter where I'm from? Is a Chinese man's dream of democracy ridiculous because he doesn't live in one?

no, but your implication that Norway isn't a 'proper' democracy, because it isn't in the EU, is. if that is indeed what you allude to by mention of china. :)

[HoreTore]

no, but your implication that Norway isn't a 'proper' democracy, because it isn't in the EU, is. if that is indeed what you allude to by mention of china. :)

Uhm..... No, that's not what I meant at all. Kinda surprised how you managed to draw that conclusion....