Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

I originally had a 10% bus driver item, but that got jacked by Renata before I was able to do anything with it.
And I only used the glasses one time before, on Renata, and she showed up as Evil.
The glasses are a faction scanning device, with 10% investigatory as well.

So you are saying that you have a faction scanner device with 10% investigatory chance and you have used it two times in total during the game?

[Romanic]

Another prime suspect is Fluffy, first because I don't have any reason to think he's not chaotic. He didn't do anything suggesting he's Town. Second because of this post:

I have to admit, I don't find the game rules confusing, I just wish that they were clear from the start (i.e item trading).
[...]

@Fluffy: Why do you care that item trading was not clearly defined?

I can see why the bad guys would not be pleased about ignoring this rule, but not really the Evil team. Who would you have wanted to trade item with, if you are Evil? Why does it matter to you?

[Romanic]

Balancing toward Fluffy and GE, but a GE lynch has more support, therefore:

Bet 50 credits on God Emperor

[Romanic]

Oh fine, fine. Fluffy may be a better suspect.

fold; bet 50 credits on Fluffy

For now.

[Beskar]

Aww mann I'm dead. I shouldn't have revealed that statement I revealed. I was worried that the town was going to think I was chaotic if I didn't reveal that. I had hoped that somebody would heal me because I was about 2-3 turns away from winning the game for us. Oh well, maybe next time.

If I were town I would revive me but I doubt anybody is going to. I'm definately open for being a replacement.

I would like to also point out that during the Renata phase, when I said "You should give items to bow-wow-wow", it was a hint to his alignment because I knew who he was.

Also, I am still not happy with you, bow-wow-wow, you didn't live up to your side of our bargain because I told you a few things in my last pm with you and you totally blanked them in-thread, including who a couple of chaotics were. So if you lived up to it, you would have jumped on the Renata bandwagon and could have done a couple of more!

[thefluffyone93]

So you are saying that you have a faction scanner device with 10% investigatory chance and you have used it two times in total during the game?

The item was voted to me after I lost my original bus driver item.
I don't know how many nights passed off-hand, but I don't think it was that much.
Also, I found out on night 3 my natural ability is a 10% roleblock, which I have been using each night, but it has yet to succeed.

Look for scum elsewhere.

[thefluffyone93]

@Fluffy: Why do you care that item trading was not clearly defined?

I don't know about you, but I would like to play a game where the rules are clean-cut from the start; the players shouldn't have to find out in the middle of the game.

Would a comment like mine have been better suited for when the game was over, when everyone can critique the game with no backlash?

EDIT: ALRIGHT LISTEN UP.
Got the Extra-Thick glasses on Night 4.
Did not perform any actions on night 5.
Used my glasses on ACIN to see how they worked on Night 6; showed up as evil.
I mixed up who I did a scan on, my bad.
And on night 7 I used them on Chaotix, and got back South Park Mafia Faction.

As for my role blocks:
Discovered that was my natural ability on Night 3, when I was attempting to roleblock Renata.
Ironically, that was also the time my bus driver item got stolen....by Renata.
Night 4: attempted to roleblock Earthling
Night 5:Nothing
Night 6: Attempted to roleblock Warman
And on Night 7 I attempted to roleblock Beefy

[Romanic]

I don't know about you, but I would like to play a game where the rules are clean-cut from the start; the players shouldn't have to find out in the middle of the game.

I agree that it's better if rules are clearly defined upfront.

You haven't answered my questions fully: What it to you that item transfers were not clearly defined? Did you want to transfer items to someone?

[Romanic]

Tally.

60 Visorslash (dcmort 40, Yaseikhaan 20)
60 Fluffy (Kagemusha 10, Romanic 50)
40 God Emperor (ArpeggiateThis 40)
1 dcmort (Visorslash 1)

[thefluffyone93]

You haven't answered my questions fully: What it to you that item transfers were not clearly defined? Did you want to transfer items to someone?

Well if a player that was confirmed as innocent had need of an item that I possessed, and i I knew said player would use it to a much greater effect than I could, I would gladly give my item, instead of waiting for a similar item to be voted on.

[shlin28]

Not entirely sure on the case for God Emperor, as he has did do things that were suspicious (what Romanic said), but also did things that were not - he had been in the Renata Network since the beginning IIRC and apparently had several easy opportunities to eviscerate the network but did not do so (which is in itself could be taken as signs of a scummy infiltrator, but I'm not so sure... takes a lot of self-restraint to be still undercover after all this time!) I would like to hear more from him before I am willing to bet on him.

Bet: 5 Credits on Fluffy, for lack of anyone better to place my bets on (yet).

Also, Vote all items to Kagemusha

Edit:

Well if a player that was confirmed as innocent had need of an item that I possessed, and i I knew said player would use it to a much greater effect than I could, I would gladly give my item, instead of waiting for a similar item to be voted on.

But by saying what you did say it would still imply that you know an innocent player by that stage... which given the current situation is kinda impossible unless you do have some valid scan results, which are dubious anyway due to cover roles. Another possibility would be that you would like to transfer items a lot earlier, which is even more scummy. Very tempted to double my bets on you now!

[dcmort93]

Not entirely sure on the case for God Emperor, as he has did do things that were suspicious (what Romanic said), but also did things that were not - he had been in the Renata Network since the beginning IIRC and apparently had several easy opportunities to eviscerate the network but did not do so (which is in itself could be taken as signs of a scummy infiltrator, but I'm not so sure... takes a lot of self-restraint to be still undercover after all this time!) I would like to hear more from him before I am willing to bet on him.

Bet: 5 Credits on Fluffy, for lack of anyone better to place my bets on (yet).

Also, Vote all items to Kagemusha

what are your thoughts on visor?

[thefluffyone93]

But by saying what you did say it would still imply that you know an innocent player by that stage... which given the current situation is kinda impossible unless you do have some valid scan results, which are dubious anyway due to cover roles. Another possibility would be that you would like to transfer items a lot earlier, which is even more scummy. Very tempted to double my bets on you now!

Its a hypothetical situation; I never said that such an event happened.
But I do agree with you on the "Another possibility would be that you would like to transfer items a lot earlier, which is even more scummy."

But I say again, it is only a critique on the fact that it was never listed as a rule.

[shlin28]

what are your thoughts on visor?

Not a threat currently, far too obvious and in the open about it. At worst he was trying to get rid of a few faction enemies, at best it was a simple mistake. However, his theory may still be valid, as Chaotix could still be looking for someone by using the word 'cuckoo' - maybe Visor just got who the recipient wrong...

[shlin28]

Also, it may be a good idea to make a list of factions and their faction rivals so we can analyse people's votes easier!

Space - Bizzarro and Evil

Evil - Space and Cosa Nostra

Cosa Nostra - Evil and ???

Bizarro - Space and ???

Psychotic - ??? and ???

Springfield - ??? and ???

Dark Falls - ??? and ???

Python - ??? and ???

South Park - ??? and ???

Any corrections/additions would be welcome!

[dcmort93]

Also, it may be a good idea to make a who is who's rival list so we can analyse people's votes easier!

Space - Bizzarro and Evil

Evil - Space and Cosa Nostra

Cosa Nostra - Evil and ???

Bizarro - Space and ???

Psychotic - ??? and ???

Springfield - ??? and ???

Dark Falls - Psychotic and Bizarro

Python - ??? and ???

South Park - ??? and ???

Any corrections/additions would be welcome!

Added dark falls

[Diamondeye]

Well, I know who they are, but apparently no one wants me to tell them.

I know who they are too. Revive me and I will tell you all.

This

Also, it may be a good idea to make a list of factions and their faction rivals so we can analyse people's votes easier!
Cosa Nostra - Evil and ???

Wrong. Revive me and I'll indulge you

[seireikhaan]

Still think you should be voting for Visorlash. I'd like to know how it is that he could claim to be stealing credits when he had none. He's up to something fishy.

[shlin28]

Wrong. Revive me and I'll indulge you

I could very well be wrong - I remember hearing from somewhere that faction rivalries are not based on so simple a pattern. Not that I care for your advice of course

Space - ??? and ???

Evil - Space and Cosa Nostra

Cosa Nostra - ??? and ???

Bizarro - Space and ???

Psychotic - ??? and ???

Springfield - ??? and ???

Dark Falls - Psychotic and Bizarro

Python - ??? and ???

South Park - ??? and ???

[Visor]

Still think you should be voting for Visorlash. I'd like to know how it is that he could claim to be stealing credits when he had none. He's up to something fishy.

I had 10 last night and spent them all to steal from Red_Spy. You're lying through your teeth.

Fold; Bet 40 credits on Yaseikhaan

[Greyblades]

Uh didn't pizza get rid of the whole "pay cash to steal cash" bit and make it a free action?

[Visor]

Uh... no? You always have to spend to steal.

[Greyblades]

Ok now I'm confused. If you have to pay to steal then why did khaan say visor had no credits, when he apparantly has at least 40 and would have needed 10 to steal?

[Visor]

I had ten last night. I told to steak from Red SPy using all of my credits. (allowing me to get a max of 40) SO if the steal happens last, it would say either 0 or 10.

[Romanic]

Purchased action fees happen before the night actions resolve, so if someone spend all his credits to purchase something, he will effectively have no credit to steal.

In this case it's possible that Visor spent his last 10 credits in an attempt to steal 40. Khaan would try to steal from him, fail because Visor has no credit, and Visor could succeed stealing 40 credits (which also are not available for khaan to steal because both steal attempts happen at the same time). So Visorslash may well have 50 credits right now (40 stolen + 10 from income), even though it was reported to khaan that he had none left.

Pretty sure that's how it works, but ATPG could confirm.

[Greyblades]

Good lord this is confusing. If my game ever gets out of development hell I sure as heck will not be using this system.

[Visor]

Purchased action fees happen before the night actions resolve, so if someone spend all his credits to purchase something, he will effectively have no credit to steal.

In this case it's possible that Visor spent his last 10 credits in an attempt to steal 40. Khaan would try to steal from him, fail because Visor has no credit, and Visor could succeed stealing 40 credits (which also are not available for khaan to steal because both steal attempts happen at the same time). So Visorslash may well have 50 credits right now (40 stolen + 10 from income), even though it was reported to khaan that he had none left.

Pretty sure that's how it works, but ATPG could confirm.

Exactly. So it's not suspicious at all.

[Romanic]

It's not confusiong. Here's the order of how it happened, assuming Visor is telling the truth:

1) Night started - Visor has 10 credits
2) He sent an order to steal 40 credits. Cost is 10 credits, deducted from his account. Balance: 0 credit.
3) Night actions resolve, they all happen at the same time.
--- 3a) khaan steal from Visor, his balance is 0 credit. Fail.
--- 3b) Visor steal 40 credits. Balance: 40 credits.
4) End of the night, income steps in, +10 creidts to each player. Balance: 50 credits.

[Visor]

Exactly.

[Backwards Logic]

(Just got home from work. Got one more day of hell, then I can devote more time to this. I'm really disappointed how my work has interfered with my ability to play effectively.)

Alright, everyone retract your bids now. We can chase around Visorslah/Greyblades/God Emperor tomorrow. Quite frankly, it can wait.

Most are probably wondering what the ??? item does. Well, let me tell you. It's a 100% accurate true scan item that can blow through cover roles when combined with another investigatory item. Since I already had one, I was able to do this and use this very powerful item immediately.

I chose Chaotix has my scan target, partially due to Visor's reasoning, but also because I had suspicions of my own. And boy was I surprised at the results.

First, I got back the result I expected first - his cover role. He is Satan from the South Park Mafia. He's also Evil. But wait, there's more!

He's also King Dodongo, a Chaotic! And if you thought that wasn't enough...

OMGWTFBBQ, his REAL ROLE is Kafei! AND, my uber awesome item can't detect his alignment!

I did some research, and it would seem in a previous game a townie named Kafei was converted into the mafia role King Dodongo midway through the game. Kafei became the cover role for Dodongo. So, I have a few questions, but personally I'd rather everyone just lynch the guy to have everything answered once and for all. Figure Chaotix has done NOTHING to help find the Chaotics, and in fact Ironside made some damn good points against Chaotix during his posts lambasting Diamondeye (Post 1524). Not to mention Chaotix never bothered to accuse DE, though he claimed he had very little cash to sue to his failed vigging attempts. Couple that with my interesting scan result, and you have something that must be put on the front burner to figure out. In any event, I highly doubt he's a simple Evil player, not with this many cover roles and identities. I suspect he was converted, earning a double role in the process. Satan is his original role. He was then converted to the Chaotic's side, becoming King Dodongo, while also becoming the cover role of Kafei. Death is the only way to confirm it - I doubt there's any scan out there that's more powerful than what I have.

Bet: 15 credits on Chaotix. No one needs to go overboard here, just everyone fold and vote Chaotix. We can get answers on the others later on, either through my scan or through other methods.