Realm Divide, talk about a challenge.

[The_Emperor]

Hi guys

Well my campaign hit realm divide real fast and I must admit while I enjoy the challenge it seems a bit too much.
having vassals turn on you is a mechanic that really sucked, I really do not think it should happen given they are already submissive.

I did however still manage to keep 1 ally with me after becoming shogun with all my diplomatic bonuses but i still saw that reputation was plummeting like a stone as the realm divide penalty increased turn after turn.

Suffice to say my short campaign came close to victory at 23 provinces and now the Takeda managed to land a strike force on Kyushu with my armies spread thinly and running out of cash I think it might have hit that turning point.

Does anyone have any hints on how to beat it?

[xploring]

You can get some ideas from this thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...e-Realm-Divide

The main ideas I have gathered online are:
- stall before realm divide to build up economy and war chest
- create vassals after realm divide between you and your enemy to act as buffer
- prepare for multi-offensive and strike out to capture several provinces at the same time to trigger realm divide

[Graphic]

I managed to keep the Hojo from attacking me (Hattori) after realm divide by giving them massive gifts of money to keep them in the green. If there's another superpower that you want to avoid war with, thats the ticket.

Also when you're building up before triggering realm divide, focus on making buildings that generate tax income as opposed to building up trade income, as you will lose most of your trade partners (if not all).

[TinCow]

I found it was crucial to get your economy on solid ground before Realm Divide. You need to be prepared to operate for the rest of the game without ANY trade income. If you manage to keep some, consider it a bonus, but make sure you can fund your armies without it. If your economy collapses during Realm Divide, you're toast.

Another strategy I used successfully is to break up AI alliances and provoke wars prior to Realm Divide. The AI will break alliances if you pay them enough to do it, so if there is an AI alliance that you do not want to face during Realm Divide, use diplomacy to break it, and possibly even get them to declare war on one another. The more AI v AI fighting there is at the time of Realm Divide, the easier your conquest will be.

[The_Emperor]

Cheers for the input guys.

I have some new strategies so i will reload an earlier save and provoke it after preparation.
My income did not go negative during the realm divide as I had already invested much in infrastructure but it did once one of my trade fleets was attacked by Wako (thankfully they got captured and all my ships were back in position for end of turn).

Looking at the threads I find it interesting that the realm divide penalty does not apply to vassals created after the realm divide event and I think i will use that to my advantage to "make" some friends and trading partners.

My own feelings about the event are mixed, while I do like the challenge I do think that the realm divide penalty should not hit your "Very friendly" long term allies hard enough to enter war (and should not hit vassals at all) but everyone who does not have great relations should take the big hit and side with the Shogun.

To me this would make more sense as the realm divide would be more like a civil war then with the old Shogun and his supporters vs the upcoming shogun and his supporters.

Losing all diplomacy is a real immersion killer for me with the event and I think it should be scripted better so that you keep your vassals and maybe a couple of your very faithful long standing allies vs the rest of the map (who have penalties so harsh you will never win them back), it would be more keeping with the atmosphere of the game.

[xploring]

Another guide for surviving realm divide
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...g-Realm-Divide

Marriage right before realm divide can help you keep an ally too. The diplomacy bonus from the marriage declines over time though.

[Rothe]

Cheers for the input guys.

I have some new strategies so i will reload an earlier save and provoke it after preparation.
My income did not go negative during the realm divide as I had already invested much in infrastructure but it did once one of my trade fleets was attacked by Wako (thankfully they got captured and all my ships were back in position for end of turn).

Looking at the threads I find it interesting that the realm divide penalty does not apply to vassals created after the realm divide event and I think i will use that to my advantage to "make" some friends and trading partners.

My own feelings about the event are mixed, while I do like the challenge I do think that the realm divide penalty should not hit your "Very friendly" long term allies hard enough to enter war (and should not hit vassals at all) but everyone who does not have great relations should take the big hit and side with the Shogun.

To me this would make more sense as the realm divide would be more like a civil war then with the old Shogun and his supporters vs the upcoming shogun and his supporters.

Losing all diplomacy is a real immersion killer for me with the event and I think it should be scripted better so that you keep your vassals and maybe a couple of your very faithful long standing allies vs the rest of the map (who have penalties so harsh you will never win them back), it would be more keeping with the atmosphere of the game.

In my Hard/Hard games, I have always kept one ally and perhaps 1-2 vassals after the divide. It is not that hard. All you have to do is to get their relations maxed before (long term trading, marriage) and then get some diplomacy chi advances. You'll have plenty of time before they turn on you, and you can extend that time by paying them around 3-5k when they go to 0 in relations. My economy is usually so strong that those payments are not really tough to make if I only keep one ally. Vassals I usually stomp out when I get to a point where I don't want to garrison any forces near them.

- Prepare for the divide by conquering a realm that can be defended from 2-3 points effectively.
- Max out your agent pool. Ninjas are great at stopping multi stack offensives by sabotage.
- You'll need around 4-5 armies for a long game, perhaps less for a short one, and perhaps a few smaller forces that can act as a castle defense in trouble spots.
- Keep a strong economy.
- Keep only one ally, and pick that ally carefully so that you can still fight on forward to Kyoto, but so that the ally is useful to you. I usually keep the ally on the opposite side of Japan, to keep my enemies occupied at both ends.
- Max out relations to your ally pre-divide
- Keep a fund to pay the ally if the campaign lasts so long that they might turn on you. Keep track of the diplomatic relations turn by turn.

[Shigemasa Oyamada]

I find much to my joy after the diplomatically dubious AI of previous TWs that the AI has a sense of integrity in this one (I.e. won't stab you in the back on turn 3 of your alliance or continue a war after losing for 50 years). If I take time to cultivate a strong alliance, it usually survives the Realm Divide. Typically my vassals only turn me if their powerful enough function as notable clan independantly (I had one game when I played as the Oda where I made the Tokugawa my vassal and they went crazy with conquering every one they saw until they were almost as big as me, needless to say they turned on me with the Realm Divide) so I generally make other alliances to curb them.

Developing your own Matchlock units I find helps alot. Cheap, quick to make armies with a punch really level the playing field. It also takes awhile to research them so you get time to build up your economy.

[Populus Romanus]

How big is the Realm Divide diplomatic penalty? 150 or 250? If it is 150, then I am all set. If it is 250, well, I could be in for an interesting campaign.

[The_Emperor]

How big is the Realm Divide diplomatic penalty? 150 or 250? If it is 150, then I am all set. If it is 250, well, I could be in for an interesting campaign.

The penalty starts out smaller but it can grow as high as -400 from what i hear.

Every turn played after realm divide the penalty increases in value, so while your allies may stick by you in the short term after it, long term they will go against you.

The realm divide penalty gets applied to all factions on the map when you reach the required clan fame with province expansion AND when you take Kytoto.

Vassals created after realm divide are said to not have the penalty, however they will get it when you take Kyoto if you have not already done so.

So the only way to get a lasting alliance against that level of penalty is (after taking Kyoto and being Shogun) creating a vassal out of taking their last capital province, effectively you create a new clan on the map without the penalty.

[Leptomeninges]

The penalty starts out smaller but it can grow as high as -400 from what i hear.

Every turn played after realm divide the penalty increases in value, so while your allies may stick by you in the short term after it, long term they will go against you.

The realm divide penalty gets applied to all factions on the map when you reach the required clan fame with province expansion AND when you take Kytoto.

Vassals created after realm divide are said to not have the penalty, however they will get it when you take Kyoto if you have not already done so.

So the only way to get a lasting alliance against that level of penalty is (after taking Kyoto and being Shogun) creating a vassal out of taking their last capital province, effectively you create a new clan on the map without the penalty.

I've definitely seen vassals created after RD get hit by the negative diplomatic modifier. I'm unsure if it was only after I took Kyoto. In some early games I "liberated" several vassals for trade purposes after RD and was surprised when they turned on me as I'd heard they were immune to the penalty if created after RD.

[Zarobien]

I just hit the real divide for the first time (turn 41). Playing with Takeda; I had Uesensugi Kensing attacking my Faction leader and that pushed it over the edge. I only got -30 from realm divide to diplomatics. I kept my both allies; Date with marriage and Togunawa... How ever; i got two former vassals of allies turning on me now. (I couldnt allie them because they where vassals and the trade deal wasnt enough.)

I'd like to keep the allies and trade but tbh: when it comes to diplomacy in total war games; I have yeat to see working one, and I have played from original shogun total war. I expect this to end me vs everyone no matter what (like it allways does). So I'm calculating taking on everyone.

So I guess I will be now seeing some samurai armies from kioto?

Edit: Made a vasal to test that... The vassal has no realm divider but it has -100 on past griefances.

[TinCow]

I've definitely seen vassals created after RD get hit by the negative diplomatic modifier. I'm unsure if it was only after I took Kyoto. In some early games I "liberated" several vassals for trade purposes after RD and was surprised when they turned on me as I'd heard they were immune to the penalty if created after RD.

Apparently the negative diplo modifier is applied twice; once at Realm Divide and a second time when you take Kyoto. Since that penalty applies to all factions, even vassals, you can only get perfect 'loyal' vassals by creating them after both of those events have occurred.