This is The Best My Country Has To Offer

[Strike For The South]

[Fisherking]

She needs new handlers.

You shouldn’t ever, ever let a politician out without an escort and a leash.

Of course Paul’s ride is something everyone is a bit in the dark on.

He was one of about 20 riders that night and he was the one the British captured. They let him go but kept his horse. So in a way he did warn the British something was afoot.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Meh, I bet a lot of politicians don't know basic bits of their own history.

If Palin's being stupid it's because she isn't keeping her mouth shut and being a bit more discreet about it.

[Sarmatian]

Bah, that's nothing. This is the guy who is in the Serbian government.

(video's in serbian, sorry)

He's answering the question from a reporter about his favourite singer, then proceeds to brag about how he has excellent relations will all singers and finally concludes that only Beethoven and Chopin hadn't played personally for him because he was just a kid when they were popular .

Reporter is trying to explain to him that he probably got something mixed up but he's having none of it, telling the reporter she made a mistake and for a grand finale, he asks how old was Beethoven

And people are wondering why country's going down the drain...

[Hosakawa Tito]

I thought Rick Perry was the best that the country of Texas had to offer?

[Ice]

As many posters know, out of all the right wing politicians we have, she definitely pisses me off the most. May god help us if she is elected to any office that has powers outside the state of Alaska.

[Ronin]

it's amazing how you can fail upwards in politics isn´t it?

[Lemur]

Little-known fact about Paul Revere: he was one of the officers in charge of the greatest naval defeat in U.S. history*. And his behavior during that battle was, by all accounts, cowardly and counter-productive. There's no question that he got U.S. soldiers killed needlessly. Revere was never given another military command after that.

He was a footnote of shameful episode in military history until Longfellow decided we needed a rousing nationalist poem in 1860. Much like a made-for-TV movie, the contents had only a passing relationship to reality.

-edit-

*Previous to Pearl Harbor, obviously, although that could be described more accurately as a air/sea defeat, or a combined arms defeat. For a pure naval disaster, I would hold up the Penobscot Expedition as the worst loss of all time for the U.S.A.

[tibilicus]

Maverick or moron? I'll go with option number two..

[aimlesswanderer]

Some people obviously don't have time for pesky details like knowing what the hell they're talking about. Why let that get in the way of your big mouth and ever bigger ego?

If she actually does somehow mange to get elected, expect that US relations with the rest of the world (not that she seems to know anything about the rest of the world) will be pretty much -10,000, on the Shogun2 scale. And you can bet that the country would pretty much go down the gurgler at warp speed.

[Lemur]

Actually, given that Paul Revere was a coward and a military incompetent, I think it's kind of telling if someone chooses to reference him as an example of patriotism. Kinda demonstrates they don't have the foggiest notion of what they're talking about. To then compound that by getting the (false) legend wrong, well, that's extra credit.

On the other hand, this all feels a bit gotcha. Do we really care if a reality tee-vee star knows history? Though if she were to decide to run, this sort of thing would be bad news. Palin already has an image of a lightweight who can't handle details, so making this sort of public utterance is a first-rate mistake.

[ajaxfetish]

Why isn't Miss South Carolina running for public office or providing commentary for news outlets?

Ajax

[Crazed Rabbit]

Actually, given that Paul Revere was a coward and a military incompetent, I think it's kind of telling if someone chooses to reference him as an example of patriotism. Kinda demonstrates they don't have the foggiest notion of what they're talking about. To then compound that by getting the (false) legend wrong, well, that's extra credit.

Wikipedia says he was exonerated of cowardly actions at that battle. You might be going a bit harsh on him.

On the other hand, not harsh enough on Palin. Politicians should be shamed for their ignorance. Pity that the press only really wants to do it to Republicans, and that all this press around Palin detracts from much, much better candidates.

CR

[Lemur]

Wikipedia says he was exonerated of cowardly actions at that battle. You might be going a bit harsh on him.

It's possible, but you don't get convicted of disobedience and cowardice out of nowhere. Yes, the Reveres had real money as silversmiths, and no doubt plenty of pull, but I've read a good bit about the Penobscot Expedition, and my semi-educated opinion is that Revere should have been hung rather than dismissed from service. Using his personal barge to rescue his luggage rather than soldiers was a classy move, as was his refusal do deploy artillery as ordered. Disgraceful.

In the end the whole fiasco was hung on Commodore Saltonstall, but only because there was so much blame to go around. Better to put it all on one hateful man than admit the entire chain of command was incompetent.

[Louis VI the Fat]

In the end the whole fiasco was hung on Commodore Saltonstall, but only because there was so much blame to go around. Better to put it all on one hateful man than admit the entire chain of command was incompetent.

Indeed. Well said, and may I add that personally I have always been of the same conviction. Everybody was incompetent and that's why general Paul Reverend lost the war for States Rights from the North.


* runs for office *

[Fisherking]

Wikipedia says he was exonerated of cowardly actions at that battle. You might be going a bit harsh on him.


CR

Revere was acquitted of the charges, not really exonerated.

He did have friends and this would have been a great embarrassment to them.

However, he was never reinstated to any military post. That should tell you something.

I don’t think he was necessarily a coward. I think he was just so self absorbed and worried about his personnel comfort that he didn’t care what happened.

So far as I can see, the only thing he did of worth was to identify the body of Dr. Warren.

But I am with Lemur on this one. I would have hung the

[Crazed Rabbit]

It's possible, but you don't get convicted of disobedience and cowardice out of nowhere. Yes, the Reveres had real money as silversmiths, and no doubt plenty of pull, but I've read a good bit about the Penobscot Expedition, and my semi-educated opinion is that Revere should have been hung rather than dismissed from service. Using his personal barge to rescue his luggage rather than soldiers was a classy move, as was his refusal do deploy artillery as ordered. Disgraceful.

In the end the whole fiasco was hung on Commodore Saltonstall, but only because there was so much blame to go around. Better to put it all on one hateful man than admit the entire chain of command was incompetent.

Fair enough. Consider my respect for Revere destroyed.

CR

[Lemur]

I see Conservapedia has been altered to fit the new reality.

[Ronin]

the wingnuts are trying to edit wikipedia also....

lights are on but nobody home revisionism

[Crazed Rabbit]

So I guess Sarah Palin is once again proving that it's the coverup that does the most damage, not the blunder.

Arghhhhh.....

CR

[a completely inoffensive name]

Pity that the press only really wants to do it to Republicans,
CR

Examples please?

[Crazed Rabbit]

I have read the minds of the press and know their desires.

Also, press=mainstream media, not Fox, which wants a Trump/Bachmann ticket.

CR

[PanzerJaeger]

Little-known fact about Paul Revere: he was one of the officers in charge of the greatest naval defeat in U.S. history*.-edit-

*Previous to Pearl Harbor, obviously, although that could be described more accurately as a air/sea defeat, or a combined arms defeat. For a pure naval disaster, I would hold up the Penobscot Expedition as the worst loss of all time for the U.S.A.

What about Savo Island?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What about Savo Island?

He might have excepted that because it antedates Pearl Harbor, though the second sentence seems to emphasize all time rather than pre-Pearl Harbor. Savo really was a debacle, wasn't it? And it is not as though the Java Sea hadn't happened. The USN was, or at least should have been, a LOT more respectful of both the IJN's night-fighting drill and the 615mm torps.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I have read the minds of the press and know their desires.

Daaaaaang. Someone is taking their multivitamins.

[Lemur]

What about Savo Island?

I would argue that we still had a navy after Savo Island the the associated Guadalcanal battles. The Penobscot Expedition wiped out the northern navy and gave the Brits free reign on our coasts. If not for the cheese-loving French ...

Also, the Penobscot Expedition had financial repercussions that went on for some time. The debt incurred by the loss of all of those ships was staggering for the small economy of the newborn U.S.A. By the time of Guadalcanal, by contrast, we had a much bigger economy capable of absorbing much harder shocks.

Eeek, I appear to have gotten all Monastery in the Backroom. My bad.

[Ronin]

The Insanity is spreading

CBS actually running a news about if Palin is right or not....

also she says she was tricked with a 'gotcha' question...

the insidious question posed by that tricky reporter was:
'what have you seen so far today, and what are you gonna take away from your visit?'

those tricky reporters with their words and stuff....the nerve of those people!

[Xiahou]

I heard about an interesting interview on NPR (yes, I listen to NPR) about the Palin comments. I'll post the money shot here, but I encourage you to read the whole transcript.

BLOCK: So you think basically, on the whole, Sarah Palin got her history right.

Prof. ALLISON: Well, yeah, she did. And remember, she is a politician. She's not an historian. And God help us when historians start acting like politicians, and I suppose when politicians start writing history.

I mean, let's be rational for a second... She just got out of a guided tour, would she really be so completely braindead to be 180 degrees wrong on what had just been explained to her? I think her response was inarticulate, but I don't think it was completely inaccurate.

[Ronin]

She just got out of a guided tour, would she really be so completely braindead to be 180 degrees wrong on what had just been explained to her?

judging by past public statements she made?....it's possible :D

we are talking about someone who has accused questions like "what did you just saw?" and "what do you normally read?" of being 'gotcha' questions.

I mean...how much cognitive failure are we we supposed to brush off as normal?

[PanzerJaeger]

Savo really was a debacle, wasn't it? And it is not as though the Java Sea hadn't happened. The USN was, or at least should have been, a LOT more respectful of both the IJN's night-fighting drill and the 615mm torps.

Indeed. Even after Force Z, even after Pearl Harbor, even after Java, and even after the Coral Sea, a false sense of superiority still permeated throughout the American Navy - no doubt based at least in part on institutional racism. Of course, the victory at Midway probably played a part as well.

I would argue that we still had a navy after Savo Island the the associated Guadalcanal battles. The Penobscot Expedition wiped out the northern navy and gave the Brits free reign on our coasts. If not for the cheese-loving French ...

Also, the Penobscot Expedition had financial repercussions that went on for some time. The debt incurred by the loss of all of those ships was staggering for the small economy of the newborn U.S.A. By the time of Guadalcanal, by contrast, we had a much bigger economy capable of absorbing much harder shocks.

I think that's a strong argument from a macro standpoint. Of course, had Mikawa pressed his advantage and destroyed the supply ships, he could have turned Savo Island into a catastrophe instead of the speed bump it turned out to be.

However, if we compare the actual battles - or lack thereof - I think Savo comes out on 'top' in terms of the greatest actual naval defeat suffered by the US Navy.* IIRC, the commodore in charge of the naval element of the Penobscot Expedition refused to engage the small British naval force guarding the besieged fort, and then routed immediately when the larger relief force arrived on the scene without firing a shot, so there wasn't actually much of a naval engagement at all.

On the other hand, Mikawa sailed straight down the slot with a smaller force and surprised, outfought, and routed the largely American force inflicting heavy casualties while taking few of his own.

I think the Penobscot Expedition is a better candidate for 'Greatest American Military Leadership Failure' rather than the greatest naval defeat.

Eeek, I appear to have gotten all Monastery in the Backroom. My bad.

In a thread like this, splitting hairs about naval battles seems a much more productive use of our time.


*I'm going to disqualify Pearl Harbor as a naval defeat in the classic sense as it was not achieved in open battle.