Star Wars: The Old Republic

[a completely inoffensive name]

It is indeed possible to swing either way; depending on how good the EA spins the promotion wheel, SW:TOR could be more or less successful. But in regards how other MMO's are doing recently, including RIFT, I think couple of million sold copies in the first month or two are still very reasonable assumption. After all, it is Star Wars. As for the strict numbers on when and how many players left, I can't tell, since I only observed the game for a short while. Indeed it seemed quite successful at the start, selling over one million copies; mind you, that was 2005, the year when WoW only just started, and MMO's were still a matter of obscurity. However, the quality of the game was so low, so much of it was unfinished that it was a fair statement that a game came out a year too early. It eventually turned really bad, as you said, with cca 10k people logged in at the same time. Btw, they have recently announced that they are shutting down Star Wars: Galaxies in December 2011.

I had heard differently about Galaxies. There a crap ton of old Star Wars Galaxies players on Reddit.com in the r/gaming forum and they all said that Galaxies was intensive and complex but incredibly rewarding and fun with a great community. After WoW came out, they simplified the hell out of it into a Star Wars WoW clone (classes before were fluid and could be mixed together but then suddenly became rigid and unchangeable), essentially changing the entire game in the process and causing the huge flock. Before that, it was supposedly an amazing Star Wars MMO.

Yeah, it seems so, but I can't really admit that I can figure out all the numbers, but for the several last quarters the Net Income was 201m, 322m and 151m that was from 09/2010 until 03/2011. 150m is basically the corrected net income for a bad quarter. Maybe not exactly lunch money, but still no neck-breaking number.

Agreed.

To make a cash cow that gets close to WoW may have been their initial dream indeed, but honestly, it is downright impossible to reproduce that. Blizzard is the king of the hill, they got the king Midas golden touch, and nobody else can compare to them at this given moment. Not even BioWare, and not by a long shot. I reckon they will settle for money and a mediocre success of most MMO's that have been launched recently. Also, other than BioWare, I don't really know who Lucas could have gotten to make them game half as good as BioWare guaranteed by its RPG reputation alone. Sadly, you need to insert that RPG successfully into an MMO and make a good MMORPG.

It is downright impossible to take down WoW at this point, you are right, but while us gamers recognize that, does EA or LucasArts recognize that? This is a time when publishers such as EA and Activision have actively killed dozens of companies and franchises in a pursuit to get profits that were unattainable. All the gamers knew that the fake band market was over saturated, but Activision didn't and continued to push Guitar Hero so much that they eventually killed the franchise entirely. Remember how great Maxis was? SimAnt, SimCity, Alpha Centauri, and yes, the original The Sims. Now what is Maxis pushing? A rehash of a rehash of a once great game in order to continue to milk gamers of money for each $20 Sims "expansion" consisting of additional couches to buy in game. Oh and Spore, which could be one of the most disappointing games of the past decade, directly because of meddling in the design process (they purposely made everything look childish and ridiculously silly looking in order to capture a wider audience, because scary stuff would drive away customers).

It seems the two main publishers don't really grasp what is and isn't possible in the gaming market. They feel as if they can make a "product" as fast and possible and as many times as possible and advertise/hype it to the top spot just like any other market, but it doesn't work that way. So I would not be surprised if EA and LucasArts really do have their heads in the clouds and think as if they can take down WoW because they think they finally have some sort of secret weapon that will make their MMO completely different and better than the 8 year old WoW.

I don't care much about EA's millions. I am just worried that i won't live to see a decent Star Wars or Star Trek MMO made.

From what I have heard, Galaxies was an amazing Star Wars MMO with a great experience due to a friendly community (everyone was a hardcore Star Wars fan). So it looks like there was one made, but it came and went, killed by a quest for money that wasn't there, which might be the case yet again imo, with TOR.

EDIT: I just want to say, that if LucasArts truly was looking to make a bunch of money, then all this MMO business was completely unneccessary. There are already enough great Star Wars franchises that could have continued that if made properly would have been a big money stream for a decade or more.

Instead of taking on TOR, this is what they could have been pushing:

1. A new Jedi Knight game. (last one was 2003)
2. A new Rouge Squadron game. (last one was 2003)
3. They could have made KOTOR 3, and that would have been huge.
4. A new Battlefront (last one was 2005)
5. A sequel to Republic Commando (that came out in 2005)
6. A new Empire at War. (I felt it was a very unique series that could have have been improved upon a great deal. that came out in 2006-2007).

There you go. 6 games that imo, would be guaranteed profitable, blockbuster games if they were allowed to made correctly and not rushed like KOTOR 2.

Instead they go down this MMO path, a much more risky choice and push the crap that is The Force Unleashed, a mediocre game that is solely based around the novelty of the "cool" physics and material engines they made for it.

The only rational reason I can see for abandoning all these guaranteed games for TOR is that they must have their eyes on the big prize of taking down WoW, I can't see any other reason why.

[Voigtkampf]

I had heard differently about Galaxies. There a crap ton of old Star Wars Galaxies players on Reddit.com in the r/gaming forum and they all said that Galaxies was intensive and complex but incredibly rewarding and fun with a great community. After WoW came out, they simplified the hell out of it into a Star Wars WoW clone (classes before were fluid and could be mixed together but then suddenly became rigid and unchangeable), essentially changing the entire game in the process and causing the huge flock. Before that, it was supposedly an amazing Star Wars MMO.

Yes, I'd say there is a fair combination of both the game being not all too finished at the beginning (as are all MMO's, let us be honest, but those at the early days had something new ones do not have; healthy gameplay constructions upon which one could build upon) and then SOE coming in and basically ruining the game. As I said, I gathered as much from the community feedback, I was exploring Azeroth at the time and had little thoughts about SWG

It is downright impossible to take down WoW at this point, you are right, but while us gamers recognize that, does EA or LucasArts recognize that? This is a time when publishers such as EA and Activision have actively killed dozens of companies and franchises in a pursuit to get profits that were unattainable. All the gamers knew that the fake band market was over saturated, but Activision didn't and continued to push Guitar Hero so much that they eventually killed the franchise entirely. Remember how great Maxis was? SimAnt, SimCity, Alpha Centauri, and yes, the original The Sims. Now what is Maxis pushing? A rehash of a rehash of a once great game in order to continue to milk gamers of money for each $20 Sims "expansion" consisting of additional couches to buy in game. Oh and Spore, which could be one of the most disappointing games of the past decade, directly because of meddling in the design process (they purposely made everything look childish and ridiculously silly looking in order to capture a wider audience, because scary stuff would drive away customers).

Agreed.

It seems the two main publishers don't really grasp what is and isn't possible in the gaming market. They feel as if they can make a "product" as fast and possible and as many times as possible and advertise/hype it to the top spot just like any other market, but it doesn't work that way. So I would not be surprised if EA and LucasArts really do have their heads in the clouds and think as if they can take down WoW because they think they finally have some sort of secret weapon that will make their MMO completely different and better than the 8 year old WoW.

It is easy for them to lose touch with reality; they start thinking they can dictate not only what kind of games should be made but also that they can dictate that the public should love those games. Awakening comes very slowly for them, because there is no instant cause/effect relationship between their actions and reactions of the market. Mostly, though, they are completely incompetent and only thing the big companies manage to do today is excelling in alienating gamers with their actions and comments.

Instead of taking on TOR, this is what they could have been pushing:

1. A new Jedi Knight game. (last one was 2003)
2. A new Rouge Squadron game. (last one was 2003)
3. They could have made KOTOR 3, and that would have been huge.
4. A new Battlefront (last one was 2005)
5. A sequel to Republic Commando (that came out in 2005)
6. A new Empire at War. (I felt it was a very unique series that could have have been improved upon a great deal. that came out in 2006-2007).

There you go. 6 games that imo, would be guaranteed profitable, blockbuster games if they were allowed to made correctly and not rushed like KOTOR 2.

Instead they go down this MMO path, a much more risky choice and push the crap that is The Force Unleashed, a mediocre game that is solely based around the novelty of the "cool" physics and material engines they made for it.

The only rational reason I can see for abandoning all these guaranteed games for TOR is that they must have their eyes on the big prize of taking down WoW, I can't see any other reason why.

All wonderful games, yes, but I reckon in meanwhile Lucas Arts has as much insight into what is good concerning games as they have insight into what makes up for a good movie.
To this list, I would like to add X-Wing or the ultimate fun that was TIE Fighter with expansions. How come they don't make something like that!? Or an upgraded version of rather underestimated Star Wars: Rebellion, a strategy that I would love to play again.

The problem is not going down the MMO path. Problem is they suck righteous donkey while doing so. I stare at them in utter disbelief; they have an amazing universe that million people adore. Does it seem so hard to make a half decent MMO and wedge it in there, so people would be enchanted? Seems so. Goes for Star Trek as well. Here is a suggestion for an MMO, off the top of my head, and be assured, everyone would love the damn game.

Make an MMO based on Star Wars starships; a section of galaxy held by Alliance, the other by Empire, greatest part of it though should be conquerable space. Allow players to be on either side, or to create their own space corporations (EVE style), control planets, mine them for minerals, gases. Let them produce their own ships, sell them on the market, let them fly X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Star destroyers or freight ships, all by their own choice. Enable huge fleet battles, where every ship, from a small fighter to a super class destroyer has its role. Make fighters fly like it's a flight simulation. Create a game where there will be place for ship builders, smugglers, mercenaries and wrap it in Star Wars clothing. You don't even have to be very inventive, a simple combination of EVE Online, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and Elite (only the oldies will know of this, I guess) would turn everything upside down.

Could anyone honestly say they think this would be a fail?

[Vladimir]

Make an MMO based on Star Wars starships; a section of galaxy held by Alliance, the other by Empire, greatest part of it though should be conquerable space. Allow players to be on either side, or to create their own space corporations (EVE style), control planets, mine them for minerals, gases. Let them produce their own ships, sell them on the market, let them fly X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Star destroyers or freight ships, all by their own choice. Enable huge fleet battles, where every ship, from a small fighter to a super class destroyer has its role. Make fighters fly like it's a flight simulation. Create a game where there will be place for ship builders, smugglers, mercenaries and wrap it in Star Wars clothing. You don't even have to be very inventive, a simple combination of EVE Online, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and Elite (only the oldies will know of this, I guess) would turn everything upside down.

Could anyone honestly say they think this would be a fail?

I think that would be the prefect SW MMO. As you listed, all the games, ideas, and etc are there. They just need to be updated and merged. You can have an Old Republic version, a classic Star Wars version, and a fan fiction/post episode VI setting. It could blow everything away.

[Montmorency]

Instead of taking on TOR, this is what they could have been pushing:

1. A new Jedi Knight game. (last one was 2003)
2. A new Rouge Squadron game. (last one was 2003)
3. They could have made KOTOR 3, and that would have been huge.
4. A new Battlefront (last one was 2005)
5. A sequel to Republic Commando (that came out in 2005)
6. A new Empire at War. (I felt it was a very unique series that could have have been improved upon a great deal. that came out in 2006-2007).

5. I still want to know what happened to Sev.
6. EU-style with SOTS battles. That would be nice.

Also, why the avatar change?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Also, why the avatar change?

Because I like E:TW avatar's better. My name is so long I figured people will still easily recognize me. Do I know you?

[Centurion1]

1. A new Jedi Knight game. (last one was 2003)
2. A new Rouge Squadron game. (last one was 2003)
3. They could have made KOTOR 3, and that would have been huge.
4. A new Battlefront (last one was 2005)
5. A sequel to Republic Commando (that came out in 2005)
6. A new Empire at War. (I felt it was a very unique series that could have have been improved upon a great deal. that came out in 2006-2007).

1. never played or dont remember
2. remember playing this on demo at like target and stuff, adored it and always wanted it
3. i loved that game
4. adored that game it was ridiculously enjoyable
5. THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE GAMES OF ALL TIME
6. never played always wanted too. who wasnt excited by the thought of sw strategy franchises.

[jirisys]

Where is FoCom in that list? It was an awesome game with awesome soundtrack. I don't particularly like techno, but that remix of the SW songs is just amazing. I love it. I love Rogue Squadron 1 and X-Wing alliance. Though they could have merged them into a better game. Rebellion I also played (Dear scott I'm old.), though it was more like EU (no battles, lots of managment) than any RTS, like the first game I played. Age of Empires (I'm ancient).

I moved on to SWBF. Beautiful, I cried because I couldn't run it until 2 years later, a year before SWBF2. I played both. I didn't like the AI or Multi in SWBF, but it was enjoyable.

SWRC was even better. Then came SW:EaW. Awesome, that's why I like Sins of a Solar Empire.

Then... KOTOR.

Boy! Was it awful to fight with. But I enjoyed it really.

Then KOTOR2, no big deal, I didn't pay much attention until recently.

Wow.

Now recently I saw the opening movie of TOR. I almost cried because of the sheer stupidity, and idiocy of it all. IT just felt George Lucas developped the story. 2005 George, not 1977 George.

~Jirisys ()

[Centurion1]

lol i played the original age of empires after aoe2. its what fostered a love for histroy tbh

[a completely inoffensive name]

Absolutely disgusting. Another reason why I will not be buying this game. Don't buy this game if you have principles.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Even better.

[Beskar]

Oh and Spore, which could be one of the most disappointing games of the past decade, directly because of meddling in the design process (they purposely made everything look childish and ridiculously silly looking in order to capture a wider audience, because scary stuff would drive away customers).

That wasn't what killed Spore, what killed Spore is that they directly meddled to significantly dumb down the game. Gamey/Cartoon style graphics work fine, look at Borderlands or World of Warcraft, not really known for their cutting edge. What killed Spore is they turned a really great game in concept then flushed it in a dirty toliet bowl for a couple of years and thus we got the creation that ended up on our shelves.

Also, the complete lack of autosave really killed the game when it first came up since it randomly crashed every computer within a hour or 2 of play and no one saves every 5 minutes.

[econ21]

The class system in this game looks terrible.

In what way terrible? I'm disappointed that many of the Sith/Republic classes are mirrors of each other. (A Sith force user should feel different from a Jedi one, as it did in the kotors). But otherwise, it seems wholly conventional MMO fare. I think they need dual specs tho - so healers/tanks can go dps and vice versa.

I watched a trailer which had this "instance/dungeon" and talked about group members randomly choosing decisions, etc.

I can sum it up as "Flaccid Combat" and the party-random choice as "I would never PuG in this game."

I heard that you get light side/dark side points for your decision, even if the high roller makes the opposite decision, so I am not worried about PuGing because of them.

[Major Robert Dump]

In what way terrible? I'm disappointed that many of the Sith/Republic classes are mirrors of each other. (A Sith force user should feel different from a Jedi one, as it did in the kotors). But otherwise, it seems wholly conventional MMO fare. I think they need dual specs tho - so healers/tanks can go dps and vice versa.



I heard that you get light side/dark side points for your decision, even if the high roller makes the opposite decision, so I am not worried about PuGing because of them.

A Bounty Hunter being the mirror of the Trooper? A Spy being the mirror of a Smuggler?

4 classes, with 2 sub classes per, with specializations within those subclasses. While There appears to be lots of possibilites within the subclasses and specializations, I have a strong feeling that there will be levels, pre-requisites and limitations on said skills. For example, if I wanted to make a pure melee bounty hunter, would I be able to level up only the melee skills or will there be other things attached?

I'm also not a fan of the synergy concept in the way that it is used....for example, you pick a subset skill that reduces the recharge of skills x y and z, i saw a lot of that in the videos, and when games do tht they are just setting you up for future nerfs

There are also a lot of cinematics and cinematic voice acting, which I think MMO players are notorious for not wanting if it is a grind/level based game.

My people in the beta are not impressed. They said they may buy the game eventually, but it's not something they would be serious about or spend money on preorder. That being said, if its not something to seriously play, will it be worth the subscription fee?

I want to like the game I really do. I desperately need to project my dissatisfaction with my personal life by re-taking my throne as a PvP Griefer and was hoping this game would give me such a stage. I was going to make Star Trek Online that stage and it was working well, but then I had to run off to war. When I am done with my adventures, maybe Star Wars will be worthy...

[Beskar]

I heard that you get light side/dark side points for your decision, even if the high roller makes the opposite decision, so I am not worried about PuGing because of them.

i heard the opposite, with the argument of "Because a light-side wouldn't party with a dark side person anyway". I hope you are right though.

[Major Robert Dump]

My homie is saying the faction points work more towards your alignment vs nuetral (you can't be a republic darky), and they affect the acquisition of certain awards outside the skill tree, kind of like GCW points in Galaxies worked. He said there are similar rewards for PVP. These items can affect skills in that a cerain "ending" to a quest may be better or worse for your build based on what path you choose, which makes this RPG lite just like every other game because a guide will be published so everyone knows which reward to take. Yay.

I SENSE A GREAT.....ITEM...MALL

[Beskar]

Have to admit, I would probably choose the Imperial Agent if I got this game, since I think the Imperial Agent tree probably be the most underplayed since the other 7 are appear to be more Star-wars native popular choices. (4 of them are Jedi/Sith, Bounty Hunter, Commando and Smuggler)

[rajpoot]

I got this Beta Key in my BW Social Account and I don't plan to use it so if anyone wants it they're welcome.

FB4M-ZNKL-PMTD-QB5P

You're supposed to redeem it here, before 11:59 pm November 18th (today).