Conspiracy nuts

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think the 9/11 conspiracy is a government conspiracy.

I think that telling people that 9/11 was a government conspiracy is a government conspiracy, to make people think the government is both powerful and competent at executing dastardly plans.

[Fisherking]

I think that telling people that 9/11 was a government conspiracy is a government conspiracy, to make people think the government is both powerful and competent at executing dastardly plans.

Right, there are no government conspiracies. Only Government Operations.

MKULTRA is the most famous but there are a whole laundry list of other MK and DOD operations which experimented on both US and Canadian Citizens.

Then we have the Projects. You ever hear of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Did you know that Gulf War Syndrome arose from government experiments on its own soldiers?

They admitted in 1996 that they had exposed them to various agents.

The CDC also conducted experiments using experimental vaccines on 1500 six-month old babies from black and Hispanic families with out ever informing parents. That was 1990.

Do you think they have stopped?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Right, there are no government conspiracies. Only Government Operations.

MKULTRA is the most famous but there are a whole laundry list of other MK and DOD operations which experimented on both US and Canadian Citizens.

Then we have the Projects. You ever hear of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Did you know that Gulf War Syndrome arose from government experiments on its own soldiers?

They admitted in 1996 that they had exposed them to various agents.

The CDC also conducted experiments using experimental vaccines on 1500 six-month old babies from black and Hispanic families with out ever informing parents. That was 1990.

Do you think they have stopped?

The point is not "do conspiracies exist" the point is, which ones are real, and which ones are paranoid fantasies?

Let's not muddy the waters by the delightful red herring which are real conspiracies. Show me why 9/11 is actually real, not imagined.

(Actually, don't bother.... I've seen this argument and the evidence for it many times on many threads in many forums. I defer to the vast majority of engineers and experts who have settled the matter in my mind)

[jirisys]

The point is not "do conspiracies exist" the point is, which ones are real, and which ones are paranoid fantasies?

Let's not muddy the waters by the delightful red herring which are real conspiracies. Show me why 9/11 is actually real, not imagined.

(Actually, don't bother.... I've seen this argument and the evidence for it many times on many threads in many forums. I defer to the vast majority of engineers and experts who have settled the matter in my mind)

United 93 debris is rubbish (in the, laughable sense of the word), Plane that hit the pentagon debris is rubbish. They covered up the evidence with dirt (actual dirt), why would the FBI have the need to confiscate the nearby hotel tapes that show the attack? Why would NORAD/USAF take about 80 minutes in a critical emergency response? Why is the ground mark on the United 93 crash site actually older than 9/11? How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

It's things that annoy me about the actual story. Which I have a healthy skepticism, of course, one can convince me otherwise with enough evidence.

I ask questions, not spout answers.

Pearl Harbour is said to be rubbish (since it's badly written, americans forget the U), Gulf of Tonken(sp?) is said to be rubbish, sinking of the Lusitania is absolute rubbish, intended to move the masses to WWI, the american government hid (ignoring it) from the people the actual notice from the German embassy warning of it's travel.

Also, the system is of course, against the proletariat. Even the so-called socialist countries are.

~Jirisys ()

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

As I've mentioned before, I firmly believe that FDR had prior knowledge of an imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, or at least the presence of a Japanese battle fleet sailing towards Hawaii with no apparently justifiable reason, and allowed it to happen. That's about as conspiratorial as I get.

I doubt it.

Only when it comes to you Warman. Posting "I'm outta here!" threads and a few hours later starting new threads having nothing to do with your retirement. Something evil is afoot. Those cashews are rotten and the milk has gone sour.

Maybe I was poisoned?

ITS THE JEWS ITS THE JEWS

There is still one in Hachiman - don't know about the other fora. Which one was real? None? All?

This thread is in dire need of a Rod Serling voice-over.

I'm phrasing myself out .

I think that WARMAN is a conspiracy by the Swiss Government to befuddle the wits of everyone and take over world banking.

NOOOOO, WE BEEN DISCOVERED!!

[Subotan]

United 93 debris is rubbish (in the, laughable sense of the word), Plane that hit the pentagon debris is rubbish. They covered up the evidence with dirt (actual dirt), why would the FBI have the need to confiscate the nearby hotel tapes that show the attack? Why would NORAD/USAF take about 80 minutes in a critical emergency response? Why is the ground mark on the United 93 crash site actually older than 9/11? How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

The Bush Administration couldn't conspire its way out of a paper bag.

I ask questions, not spout answers.

You sound like Glenn Beck.

Also, the system is of course, against the proletariat. Even the so-called socialist countries are.

Hehehe, I wasn't being sincere.

[Hax]

United 93 debris is rubbish (in the, laughable sense of the word), Plane that hit the pentagon debris is rubbish. They covered up the evidence with dirt (actual dirt), why would the FBI have the need to confiscate the nearby hotel tapes that show the attack? Why would NORAD/USAF take about 80 minutes in a critical emergency response? Why is the ground mark on the United 93 crash site actually older than 9/11? How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

Okay. Let me quote Bin Laden here:

"Mr. Fisk, I hope we can turn America into a shadow of its former self"

Does that answer your questions?

[Strike For The South]

LOL @ I only ask questions, as if such a stance precludes one from being a fool

In fact we have proof in this very thread that this is not the case

[jirisys]

LOL @ I only ask questions, as if such a stance precludes one from being a fool

In fact we have proof in this very thread that this is not the case

Then I'm a fool. Fool.

I must have passed on it. Oh my. Could you please kind sir redirect it to me.

Also, never compare to Glenn Beck. NEVER. Not even if I was exactly like him.

~Jirisys ()

[Centurion1]

I think that telling people that 9/11 was a government conspiracy is a government conspiracy, to make people think the government is both powerful and competent at executing dastardly plans.

i tihnk you conspired to say exactly what the person you quoted said!!!!!

[Kralizec]

i tihnk you conspired to say exactly what the person you quoted said!!!!!

Be careful, you and I know more than what's good for us...

[Strike For The South]

Then I'm a fool. Fool.

I must have passed on it. Oh my. Could you please kind sir redirect it to me.

Also, never compare to Glenn Beck. NEVER. Not even if I was exactly like him.

~Jirisys ()

Why Would I compare you to Glenn Beck?

As per your deluded fantsies of Bondesuqe intriuge....A simple game of Jenga will show you how the towers collapsed with the exact same entry points and your other questions are not really based in any sort of fact. It's like you threw a bunch of words together and took what sounded like it could pass for plausible

Also, the 0000s of people whom lost family members....I assume all paid gov't operatives?

[PanzerJaeger]

How can a building really collapse in such a way after taking less damage than even those bombed buildings on the news?

~Jirisys ()

Concentrated heat above 1470 degrees Fahrenheit weakened the steel floor trusses on the effected floors, causing them to sag and pull against the outer perimeter columns. Eventually the columns snapped and the building fell in on itself. It's clearly visible from multiple different angles.

A bomb generally does not cause the kind of sustained heat for a long enough period of time to weaken steel.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Concentrated heat above 1470 degrees Fahrenheit weakened the steel floor trusses on the effected floors, causing them to sag and pull against the outer perimeter columns. Eventually the columns snapped and the building fell in on itself. It's clearly visible from multiple different angles.

A bomb generally does not cause the kind of sustained heat for a long enough period of time to weaken steel.

Thank you. I can't recall how many times I have done a facepalm because people don't understand that you don't need to heat steel all the way up to its melting point for it to lose all structural integrity.

[Hax]

Jirisys, could you please respond to what I said. There is a motive, there is a weapon, al-Qaeda admitted to doing it. What more do you need?

[Vladimir]

Thank you. I can't recall how many times I have done a facepalm because people don't understand that you don't need to heat steel all the way up to its melting point for it to lose all structural integrity.

I get my engineering news from a more credible source, thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z40g4ubayTw

[jirisys]

Jirisys, could you please respond to what I said. There is a motive, there is a weapon, al-Qaeda admitted to doing it. What more do you need?

I understand it. I'm not saying that they didn't.

Though the Bin Laden in the post 9/11 video is much different than the one on the other videos. Even having a ring, something forbidden in islamic law (he oculd care less for all I know) and writing with the other hand (though really, many can do that).

As per your deluded fantsies of Bondesuqe intriuge....A simple game of Jenga will show you how the towers collapsed with the exact same entry points and your other questions are not really based in any sort of fact. It's like you threw a bunch of words together and took what sounded like it could pass for plausible

Also, the 0000s of people whom lost family members....I assume all paid gov't operatives?

Really? Jenga? Are you seriously telling me that the WTC buildings are built under the same fashion as the game of Jenga? That the same way a Jenga tower will lose it's integrity and resistance, so will the WTC buildings? Yet what of the mass really? Was it really that different? Wouldn't the steel columns be able to sustain the same mass, albeit worse, since some columns were damaged?

Not really, never said that. Don't believe that either.

Why Would I compare you to Glenn Beck?

I was talking to Hax.

Concentrated heat above 1470 degrees Fahrenheit weakened the steel floor trusses on the effected floors, causing them to sag and pull against the outer perimeter columns. Eventually the columns snapped and the building fell in on itself. It's clearly visible from multiple different angles.

A bomb generally does not cause the kind of sustained heat for a long enough period of time to weaken steel.

Prolongued fire? If I recall, few; if any buildings have actually collapsed because of fire. Especially those built of steel. So you are saying that if WTC1 had an uncontrollable fire, it would still have lost structural integrity? I'd imagine that they could hold on a bit longer than 12 seconds.

I'll give you that, however. Though really, collapsing in 12 seconds?

Thank you. I can't recall how many times I have done a facepalm because people don't understand that you don't need to heat steel all the way up to its melting point for it to lose all structural integrity.

Never said that, really. I guess you are projecting your own experiences with 9/11 truthers and my questions.

I get my engineering news from a more credible source, thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z40g4ubayTw

You're kidding right?

I hope you are.

Needless to say, I think people really have an enmity with 9/11 truthers, that's why people have not been quite happy with me. If you will not address the other questions I have, please then redirect me to a site where I could get an answer.

I also think that you think that I think that 9/11 victims and people who were near are unimportant, or paid by the government. No. Not at all. They are like any other human being, and I really think that their loss is tragic.

So... Lusitania, Pearl and Tonken? What's the verdict?

~Jirisys ()

[Strike For The South]

The principle is the same

And this isn't about the Lusiltania or Tonkin. Please leave the straw men at home

[a completely inoffensive name]

Prolongued fire? If I recall, few; if any buildings have actually collapsed because of fire. Especially those built of steel. So you are saying that if WTC1 had an uncontrollable fire, it would still have lost structural integrity? I'd imagine that they could hold on a bit longer than 12 seconds.

I'll give you that, however. Though really, collapsing in 12 seconds?

It doesn't matter how long the fire is as long as the steel was heated to a certain temperature where it lost structural integrity. Since the planes pretty much dumped fuel everywhere in the building and then set it on fire, it shouldn't have taken that long for the steel to get really, really hot incredibly fast.

Never said that, really. I guess you are projecting your own experiences with 9/11 truthers and my questions.

I wasn't talking about you at all. I was just expressing my happiness at PJ knowing something about heat and metal that seems to go over most people's head.

[Kralizec]

I'll give you that, however. Though really, collapsing in 12 seconds?

Uh, what? It took about an hour before the first tower went down, same for the second one.

Or are you referring to to the collapse itself, saying that this took 12 seconds?

[jirisys]

The principle is the same

And this isn't about the Lusiltania or Tonkin. Please leave the straw men at home

Huh? I talked about Lusitania, Pearl Harbour and G.of Tonkin on my first post. Not in my last one.

Uh, what? It took about an hour before the first tower went down, same for the second one.

Or are you referring to to the collapse itself, saying that this took 12 seconds?

The latter.

~Jirisys ()

[gaelic cowboy]

Prolongued fire? If I recall, few; if any buildings have actually collapsed because of fire. Especially those built of steel. So you are saying that if WTC1 had an uncontrollable fire, it would still have lost structural integrity? I'd imagine that they could hold on a bit longer than 12 seconds.

I'll give you that, however. Though really, collapsing in 12 seconds?

~Jirisys ()

g = 9.81 m/s2 allied with a little F = mg and 12 seconds is all you need







Oh and in case you think there is a gotcha moment here the two vids are saying esentially the same thing I only included the first cos it shows the weakened steel.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a inside job needs serious mental help.

[Populus Romanus]

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a inside job needs serious mental help.

Says the Martian.

[jirisys]

g = 9.81 m/s2 allied with a little F = mg and 12 seconds is all you need

Oh and in case you think there is a gotcha moment here the two vids are saying esentially the same thing I only included the first cos it shows the weakened steel.

Thank you kind sir.

Didn't they have core collumns? If they had, I imagine they would have stayed upright.

F = mg

Huh? This is the formula for calculating force, not speed. Don't you mean [v(t)= -gt + v0]?... Except this wouldn't account for resistance due to mass.

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a inside job needs serious mental help.

Nibiru will get you for that!

~Jirisys ()

[Fisherking]

I have listened to the argument about 9-11 and heard authoritative explanations given both for and against.

To me it is a mystery that will never be proven one way or the other.

One thing for certain is that conspiracies are pulled off under the nose of everyone and very few people notice. They will even support the conspirators because the argument sounds plausible on the surface.

Most people never look deeper than what they heard on the evening news.

If you want conspiracies just look at the oil industry. They are past masters at pulling off scams and jacking up prices.

The most recent that I can recall is the myth that making alcohol fuels drives up the price of food.

It was corn in the US. Well if you know anything about the beef industry you know that most corn goes for cattle feed. You also know that brewers grain is an enhanced cattle feed.

What is brewers grain? It is the mash used to make alcohol. Alcohol is made from the sugars released from the starches in grain or other vegetable matter. These starches can’t be digested by cattle so removing them improves the quality of the feed. So by making alcohol you not only get fuel but improve the original feed. But it also competes with oil...
Most everyone bough into the idea that it was driving up the cost of food but what was driving the cost of food was the high price of oil.

See how that works?

Most people know that the 1973 Gas Crises was a sham that doubled the price of fuel over night but did you know that Prohibition was pushed by old John D. Rockefeller? Alcohol was the chief competitor at the time, as a fuel.

Hemp was much the same. The efforts to make it illegal were pushed by money from the timber industry. Its champion was Hurst and all of his news papers but he was also a timber baron.
Common Hemp which had no THC was outlawed with the then recently introduced cannabis from India. It was superior for making paper and a few other products that the timber interests had their eye on but just couldn’t compete with the lower prices of hemp. And it was not enough that it was outlawed in the US, the government pushed it as a diplomatic issue around the world.

There are countless other examples both governmental and business. Everyone is a victim of them whether you know of them or believe in them. When US soldiers were exposed to chemical and biological agents in the Gulf War it was by their own people. Even though they admitted it few people are aware of it.

So, just dismiss anyone who talks about conspiracies.

That is exactly what they want you to do.

[jirisys]

I have listened to the argument about 9-11 and heard authoritative explanations given both for and against.

To me it is a mystery that will never be proven one way or the other.

Much because the government officials for some reason disturbed the areas around it, not leaving a good deal of time to analize it. And also because if it is a patriotic display of sheeps being herded and excluding those that do not follow.

Conspiracies are most of the time irrational, an excersice to measure our rationality. Other times, they will dig down enough to uncover some deal of truth in what was a lie.

So, just dismiss anyone who talks about conspiracies.

That is exactly what they want you to do.

As George Carlin once said: "And now it's conspiracy, see, they made that, something that is... That should not be entertained for a minute that powerful people might get together and have a plan! Doesn't happen! You're a cook! A conspiracy buff!"

~Jirisys ()

[gaelic cowboy]

Huh? This is the formula for calculating force, not speed. Don't you mean [v(t)= -gt + v0]?... Except this wouldn't account for resistance due to mass.

I was talking generically my good man, but yes indeed they are acceleration and force respectively and the floor still goes down because of gravity and force ie the mass of the floors allied with gravity it was all you needed to drop that tower.

Didn't they have core collumns? If they had, I imagine they would have stayed upright.

There were core columns but I imagine it would be hard for them to stand up after a jetliner cut them in half.

[gaelic cowboy]

The most recent that I can recall is the myth that making alcohol fuels drives up the price of food.

It was corn in the US. Well if you know anything about the beef industry you know that most corn goes for cattle feed. You also know that brewers grain is an enhanced cattle feed.

What is brewers grain? It is the mash used to make alcohol. Alcohol is made from the sugars released from the starches in grain or other vegetable matter. These starches can’t be digested by cattle so removing them improves the quality of the feed. So by making alcohol you not only get fuel but improve the original feed. But it also competes with oil...
Most everyone bough into the idea that it was driving up the cost of food but what was driving the cost of food was the high price of oil.

See how that works?

Yes and remember also how the NGO types were running around blaming the West for stealing food from the poor people because there was less food or something like that blah blah.

The news talked of disturbances or riots at markets where people could not afford the food apparently cos we ate it or drove it away in our cars petrol tank, now hold on if there was food in the market surely it was a food price issue not a food scarcity issue.

This was especially true in Asia where a lot of countries depended on rice imports due to low or no emergency stockpiles of the same, why had they no stockpile's well cos the rice was worth money on the open market and they figured the same market could supply the needs after they sold it.

[Strike For The South]

Dear God.

Before some of you go spouting off I would encourage you to actually read the 18th amendment

After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

I bolded it AND put it in red. It did not ban the use of alcohol for other purposes

Also prhobition was a done deal with or w/o SO because it comes out of the insanity that is 19th century American protastentism

Which....wait for it....is the exact religion Rockefeller was brought up in.

Let's also forget the fact that by the time prhobition passed SOs monopoly had been smashed

Also, what would be eaiser for Rockfeller...invest in alcohol as fuel....or throw his weight behind religous fundamentilsts (which he did only because he was one) and let that sweet train ride.

There is no logic in the arguement