Predestination, John Calvin

[TheLastDays]

Hate to break it to you but you are 0% Calvinist.

This might be true, and yet I am as much/little Arminian as I am Calvinist.
I believe that everything is predetermined and yet it all comes down to a choice based upon free will. Doesn't make sense? True, but neither does the claim that three are three and yet one.

Now I have a question for you: There are scriptures that state, that God wants everyone to be saved. If salvation comes down solely to predestination and God chooses those that get saved, leaving them no free will on the matter, why does He not simply elect everyone?

[Noncommunist]

This might be true, and yet I am as much/little Arminian as I am Calvinist.
I believe that everything is predetermined and yet it all comes down to a choice based upon free will. Doesn't make sense? True, but neither does the claim that three are three and yet one.

Now I have a question for you: There are scriptures that state, that God wants everyone to be saved. If salvation comes down solely to predestination and God chooses those that get saved, leaving them no free will on the matter, why does He not simply elect everyone?

I've heard that Rob Bell, a fairly famous christian speaker claims that God did elect everyone.

[Rhyfelwyr]

This might be true, and yet I am as much/little Arminian as I am Calvinist.
I believe that everything is predetermined and yet it all comes down to a choice based upon free will. Doesn't make sense? True, but neither does the claim that three are three and yet one.

No what you are saying doesn't make sense. I don't see how you can brush it off and just say "well the Trinity doesn't make sense either". What scriptures do you base your beliefs on?

Now I have a question for you: There are scriptures that state, that God wants everyone to be saved. If salvation comes down solely to predestination and God chooses those that get saved, leaving them no free will on the matter, why does He not simply elect everyone?

It says that God would like everyone to come to him and be saved. The problem is that nobody would.

If you are going to ask why only some were saved, I think it would be better for you to ask yourself why any are saved.

When you do that, you will learn to see things from a God-centred and not man-centred perspective.

[TheLastDays]

No what you are saying doesn't make sense. I don't see how you can brush it off and just say "well the Trinity doesn't make sense either". What scriptures do you base your beliefs on?

It says that God would like everyone to come to him and be saved. The problem is that nobody would.

If you are going to ask why only some were saved, I think it would be better for you to ask yourself why any are saved.

When you do that, you will learn to see things from a God-centred and not man-centred perspective.

You are not answering my question.
It makes no sense that God, who wants everyone to be saved, would not elect everyone to be saved. If there is no free will involved, that God could overrule but chooses not to overrule then what you are saying hints that something else is hindering God from electing/saving everyone and that's nonsense.

As I said, I don't understand the way it works completely but both concepts on their own (predestination and free will) don't work, scritpurally. Since there are scriptures supporting both I can only assume that both principles are at work somehow. The trinity is never mentioned directly in the Bible either. We base it on the faith, that we have one God yet we believe in the father, the son and the holy spirit. We have scriptures that are supporting the deity of a father, Christ and the holy spirit seperately and we have some vague scriptures mentioning some aspects of them together but in the end the trinity is not mentioned in a scripture specifically. Yet we believe it nonetheless, I do too. But from our logical point of view it makes no sense.

[Sigurd]

On trinitarianism.

There is a thread about pre-destination in here as well, but I couldn't find it.

[Rhyfelwyr]

You are not answering my question.
It makes no sense that God, who wants everyone to be saved, would not elect everyone to be saved. If there is no free will involved, that God could overrule but chooses not to overrule then what you are saying hints that something else is hindering God from electing/saving everyone and that's nonsense.

What separates us from God and hinders us from being saved is our sin. Now as you said God would really like us all to come to him freely and renounce our sins. But since we didn't he had to go and die on the cross and very specifically bore the sins for all those that he chose to actively save.

People don't like that fact that Calvinists say God only saved some. But you should consider that with your own view of things and indeed the Arminian and Catholics views, God saved nobody. Some food for thought...

[Centurion1]

What separates us from God and hinders us from being saved is our sin. Now as you said God would really like us all to come to him freely and renounce our sins. But since we didn't he had to go and die on the cross and very specifically bore the sins for all those that he chose to actively save.

People don't like that fact that Calvinists say God only saved some. But you should consider that with your own view of things and indeed the Arminian and Catholics views, God saved nobody. Some food for thought...

Calvinism is completely silly which is why such a tiny percentage of people follow it. And yes I will call it dumb since you think my religion is the Whore of Babylon.

God could have simply forgiven us, but amends still have to be made for our sins; that's why we're still held responsible for our sins even though christ died. We don't just "get forgiven". We need to make up for all of our sins. Christs crucifixion simply opened the doorway for us to be able to have that opportunity to make amends for our sins.

Not to mention you have no idea what exactly gods reasoning for was since yah know its a mystery of the faith.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Calvinism is completely silly which is why such a tiny percentage of people follow it. And yes I will call it dumb since you think my religion is the Whore of Babylon.

Wow the handbags are coming out early today...

God could have simply forgiven us, but amends still have to be made for our sins; that's why we're still held responsible for our sins even though christ died. We don't just "get forgiven". We need to make up for all of our sins. Christs crucifixion simply opened the doorway for us to be able to have that opportunity to make amends for our sins.

If God simply let our sins go unpunished then he wouldn't be a just God. That's the point in the whole coming to earth as Jesus thing - so he could forgive us by taking the punishment for our sins upon himself. That's the whole glory of what he did on the cross! Heck that's Catholic theology!

Or else what do you think the crucifixion was for?

As for making amends for sins you can never in the slightest bit making the tiniest amendment for the least of your sins. The wages of sin is death and that is so for every little sin so unless you plan on dying you are not amending your sins. That's why I'm so happy Jesus died for me!

[Centurion1]

amendment is improper word usage.

You belong to a religion where absolution from one's sins is impossible. I however, do not. I can repent of my sins and be forgiven by God. My soul is wiped clean of all sins i repent of truly. Your belief that what you said is Catholic theology is incorrect. It is said that Jesus died on the cross to open up heaven for those who came after and before him. Jesus also cured us of our innate original sin more than anything else. Sins which we as individuals commit wit hour free will are not forgiven because Jesus died on a cross. Our original sin however is healed.