The Jewish Lobby

[PanzerJaeger]

I'm going to refrain from Godwining this thread. Just know that my tact is causing me physical pain.

I don't blame you. Jews pulling strings behind the curtains at the highest levels of government in pursuit of Zionism. It sounds like something that's been ripped straight out of Germany in the '30s. It is also true.

I disagree with many of Israels tactics and cringe at their human rights abuses but the other side of the coin is even less appealing.

What is the other side of the coin, really?

After the Soviet Union fell, one of Israel's big selling points was that it was the one nation in the region that was not made up of people who largely hate America, yet the hatred for America on the Arab Street is inextricably linked to America's unqualified support of Israel.

It's really quite brilliant, in an evil sort of way. The more cavalier Israel acts in the region, the more Arabs hate it and its great benefactor, and the more Arabs express anti-Americanism, the more money we feel compelled to give Israel (despite the fact that they do not support our wars in the Middle East in any identifiable way).

Israel does more than pay lip service to having a functioning democracy in the region and they are a counterweight to Iran superhappyfuntimeland. This makes an alliance with them vital and necesary.

This is common mantra, but doesn't exactly pass the smell test.

First, on democracy. What does their form of government have to do with our foreign policy? Are we compelled to lend our support to every democracy in the world when it faces limited democratic or authoritarian regimes, regardless of said democracy's actions? That's certainly not been our policy when other democracies have been threatened by authoritarianism - not that Israel has actually been threatened by authoritarianism for quite some time.

As to the counterweight argument, you must mean Saudi Arabia? Israel is a counterweight to nothing. The country has no sway and no influence beyond being able to menace its immediate neighbors with a superior military. It's distance from Iran makes that military effectively useless, though, leaving only soft power - of which Israel has effectively none in the region.

Saudi Arabia, the home of Sunni Islam and a large, wealthy, and powerful Arab state is the natural counterweight to Iran.

In any event, Israel is clearly no counterweight to Iran for the US, but is the US a counterweight to Iran for Israel?

Putting Iran in the Crosshairs

Israelis tend to describe every threat in the starkest terms, but Iran is widely seen as their most dangerous enemy because it is the most likely adversary to acquire nuclear weapons. Virtually all Israelis regard an Islamic country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons as an existential threat. As Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben‐Eliezer remarked one month before the Iraq war: “Iraq is a problem …. But you should understand, if you ask me, today Iran is more dangerous than Iraq.”203


Sharon began publicly pushing the United States to confront Iran in November 2002, in a high profile interview in The Times (London).204 Describing Iran as the “center of world terror,” and bent on acquiring nuclear weapons, he declared that the Bush Administration should put the strong arm on Iran “the day after” it conquered Iraq. In late April 2003, Ha’aretz reported that the Israeli ambassador in Washington was now calling for regime change in Iran.205 The overthrow of Saddam, he noted, was “not enough.” In his words, America “has to follow through. We still have great threats of that magnitude coming from Syria, coming from Iran.”

Israel does have it's fair share of insanity but I trust the Israelis to do a better job of keeping there crazies in line, I also feel like many more Isrealis would have no problem putting down their guns where as many Arabs see this as a 0 sum game. That is a major difference to me.

Really? Did you miss the Palestinian Papers?

I do cringe at how buddy buddy the lobby has become but I do the same thing with the corn farmers.

The corn lobby has yet to compel us into a disastrous war in the Middle East.

I certainly don't think the lobby has been more destructive than your umberlla definition of islamic terrorism,

Why?

nor do I think they are even close to being our worst ally.

Then which nation is? Saudi Arabia's support of Wahhabism in the '90's comes to mind, but they seem to have genuinely realized that didn't turn out well.

These "authors" overplay there hand when they say American interests take a backseat to Israeli ones.

Your quotations imply condescension and/or criticism of their abilities. Is there a reason for that other than your disagreement with their conclusions?

Maybe THEIR idea of what Americas interests are do, but Americas has clearly demonstrated Isreal is crucial our stated interests.

How has that been clearly demonstrated? Israel has no oil, no real power or influence in the region, and does nothing to advance our interests in the region. In fact, a very strong, even undeniable, argument exists that it has done the exact opposite.

No, the only people's interests that our unwavering support of Israel advance are Zionist American Jews who, inexplicably, hold a ridiculous amount of sway over our government.