I'll save Reenk the trouble.
Haters gonna hate.
Discussion over.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
I'll save Reenk the trouble.
Haters gonna hate.
Discussion over.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Actually it also happens in countries where the church isn't that close to government anymore, i.e. here in Austria...
Re: This is why we separate church and state
I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that Ireland is a special case in terms of scale and awfulness.Originally Posted by TheLastDays
Re: This is why we separate church and state
And special considering the central role of the Church in Irish history and society. Not all of which negative, even I will admit. The church has both preserved Ireland and stifled it, the final verdict open to personal preference.
The Irish republic has been a virtual theocracy for most of its existence. The tremendous changes in Ireland in the past two decades coming to the fore, being played out, in the abuse case. Who'd have thought, twenty-five years ago, that Irish TD's would openly call for a severence of diplomatic ties with the Vatican? The Pope, John F. Kennedy, and Jackie Charlton, these were once the Holy Trinity of Irish aspiration, the national identity of a country. Apart from the sickening abuse, this is also about the momentuous change that has taken place in a mere two decades, a country emancipating itself from destitution and civil war and theocracy all at once. Not a thousand bailouts detract anything from that.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
I'm afraid Romania is a better candidate. Both communist and post-communist Romania have been hell for many children. I'm not going to go all Google on your ass, there is an abundance of material about child abuse in Romania. The point is that all those years there has been no church around to put the blame on. The hierarchical, secretive nature of Romanian society under communism and its successors is to be blamed.
AII
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: This is why we separate church and state
I am too afraid to Google. Cruelty to children — even just reading about it — puts me off for the whole day. I'll take your word for it, though, as well as your diagnosis. Secrecy and concentrated power make for evil, evil things.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Seperate state and church?
Shouldn't we start seperating priestly penises from choir boy bums instead?
Last edited by HoreTore; 07-21-2011 at 20:16.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: This is why we separate church and state
We definitely should. Priests doing things like this are among the people who make it the hardest for me to keep to my non violent way of life.
I really don't know much about child abuse in other countries, or rather the extent of it, because, just as Lemur, I am not keen on reading reports about it but I do know it's pretty bad here in Austria as well...
Re: This is why we separate church and state
You have to put an image though.
Also, with the massive Catholic population, a big picture of a pilgrimage at the Vatican superimposed with COME AT ME BRO is also quite good.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Is anyone really surprised anymore these Bishops dont live in the real world at all.The Cloyne report - main findings
irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 15:07
* The Vatican was “entirely unhelpful” to any bishop who wanted to implement procedures for dealing with allegations of child sexual abuse in the Irish church.
* The response of the Diocese of Cloyne was “inadequate and inappropriate".
* Primary responsibility for the failure to implement agreed child sexual abuse procedures lies with then-bishop of Cloyne John Magee.
* Bishop Magee "took little or no active interest" in the management of clerical child sexual abuse cases until 2008, 12 years after the framework document on child sexual abuse was agreed by the Irish Bishops' Conference.
* That some child sexual abuse allegations were not reported to gardaí was the diocese’s “greatest failure”.
* There were 15 cases between 1996 and 2005 which “very clearly” should have been reported by the diocese, of which nine were not.
* Given the diocese’s knowledge of clerical sexual abuse and its effects on complainants it was wrong of the diocese not to put in place a proper support system for complainants.
* The response of health authorities was “adequate”, but the commission adds it is not convinced the State’s laws and guidelines are sufficiently strong and clear for child protection.
* The report is largely complimentary about the role of gardaí, although it does raise concerns about the force’s approach in three cases.
They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.
Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy
Re: This is why we separate church and state
This is what happens when the state abets, or turns a blind eye towards unbridled papistry
[/protestant]
Re: This is why we separate church and state
The Catholic Church is great. They made a huge mistake with how they had handled the preservation of their "reputation". In hindsight, none of those decisions went so well for our reputation. I'm a Catholic, people who hushed up about these abuses should be ashamed of themselves and if they aided any felons should be in jail. but I'm a fan of the church, and most of you proddies are just looking for digs at an otherwise great church. Enda Kenny was right to say what he said. The church is in need of perpetual counter-reformations. Changes from within the universal church, rather than abandoning it and engaging in pagan protestant devil worship.
I'm not entirely sure who in their right mind put Italians in charge of anything, but I digress..
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-22-2011 at 02:28.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Reminds me of a quote from The Bad Popes, a book I read ages ago. I've lost the book somehow, but there was a wonderful quote from a 16th century theologian, responding to the rampant corruption, cronyism, murders a whoring going on in Vatican City. All of this proved that the Papacy was a direct expression of God's will, wrote the man, because any mortal institution would have collapsed under the weight of so much sin.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Fixed it for ya.
AII
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Actually, the Vatican put a German in charge of handling abuse cases. This hardliner did such a good job of protecting the church against the tortured children, they elected him pope.
That sort of thing explains the unprecedented harsh language of the Irish taoiseach, who in one single adress used more, and harsher, terminology than I have used in all my posts at the .org.
Re: This is why we separate church and state
you furriners get yourselves into all kinds of pickles, and thus justify all manner of desperate measures to prevent crisis "x" ever happening again.
fair enough, but we will continue to cope with monarchies and established church's quite successfully, albeit with a smugly understated arrogance. ;)
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: This is why we separate church and state
Of course.You have to put an image though.
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