Politicians vs Science; the Surreal War on Salt

[Koga No Goshi]

But but but you don't understand your wrong. I have friends who are doctors and they said salt is bad for you. Why do you keep listening to these "other legitimate scientists"? I know i'm right so you need to listen to me.

If you're going to troll at least do it well.

I'm fairly convinced at this point that in the time since I've left a great number of Orgers have developed rather severe reading comprehension problems. I find myself repeatedly having to respond to posts where people reply to points I did not make-- for example, I made absolutely NO mention whatsoever of support for or against ordinances where cities or counties or states require reduced salt in foods. None whatsoever. Yet Adrian II twice yells me down about how he wants his free choice when I never said *anything* about supporting laws to take away salt out of his food.

However, this thread hardly spent any time on the actual ordinance itself and directly went into deconstructing that you can trust virtually anything anyone says about what you eat, when, despite sharing a few links from the net (and as we very well know you could find "scientific studies" stating virtually anything you want, including that carbon emissions are good for you or Ann Coulter even went on television during the Fukushima meltdown citing studies and research about how radiation may actually be good for you in greater amounts than experts say is safe) and I was commenting only on that. Talking about how you can find mixed results in studies is one thing, what people should actually do with regards to their health, particularly if heart or blood pressure or medical concerns are part of the equation, isn't in my view something people should just cherry pick the most lax study they can find and go "ooh let's go with that."

Of course if you aren't worried and don't care and don't have any family history issues, do whatever you want.

So with all due respect Centurion... you can cite armchair internet research, I will listen to the medical community. I'm sorry if that offends your ego to the point where you get hostile over it.

[Adrian II]

Yet Adrian II twice yells me down about how he wants his free choice when I never said *anything* about supporting laws to take away salt out of his food.

The OP is about choice. I am responding to the OP.

I will listen to the medical community.

No you won't. You're just cherry-picking. And no one is interested in your animosity toward Centurion, it's irrelevant.

AII

[Koga No Goshi]

The OP is about choice. I am responding to the OP.



No you won't. You're just cherry-picking. And no one is interested in your animosity toward Centurion, it's irrelevant.

AII

I have no animosity towards Centurion other than the fact that he's mocking me for not sharing his point of view. And how is listening to my doctor cherry picking? Please explain this to me. Perhaps I should take the Org into my doctors appointments with me so they can explain to him that he is wrong.

[Adrian II]

And how is listening to my doctor cherry picking?

See my post #29.

AII

[Koga No Goshi]

I. Want.To.Judge.For. Myself.

Is that clear enough?

I don't want to be bullied by health officials who deny the excellent work of the Cochrane Collaboration, one of the few independent institutions left. For your information, Cochrane's meta-studies are famous throughout the world precisely because they cut through the science à la carte which pops up everywhere these days in support of health and food industries and government bureaucracies.

Have you ever looked into their work? Did you understand that scientific results can be counter-intuitive and that no amount of anecdote is going the change the outcome of evidence-based research? Do you even know what a meta-study is?

AII

The Cochrane Collaboration found that "a modest and long term reduction in population salt intake [...] would result in a lower population blood pressure, and a reduction in strokes, heart attacks and heart failure. Furthermore, our study is consistent with the fact that the lower the salt intake, the lower the blood pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt#Health_effects

Yup, I know what the study is. And how exactly does it contradict anything I have said with regards to the risk factors in my family history and what doctors have advised?

Nothing.

[Adrian II]

The Cochrane Collaboration found that "a modest and long term reduction in population salt intake [...] would result in a lower population blood pressure, and a reduction in strokes, heart attacks and heart failure. Furthermore, our study is consistent with the fact that the lower the salt intake, the lower the blood pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt#Health_effects

Yup, I know what the study is. And how exactly does it contradict anything I have said with regards to the risk factors in my family history and what doctors have advised?

Nothing.

Now you're talking. That is interesting indeed, much more so than anecdotes about Bobby's Uncle or the nice old lady next door.

Just for the record, I still support a free choice in these matters. I don't want to be subject to (as well as pay for) government 'wars' on salt, eggs, pot, beer, smoking, etcetera.

AII

[Koga No Goshi]

Now you're talking. That is interesting indeed, much more so than anecdotes about Bobby's Uncle or the nice old lady next door.

Just for the record, I still support a free choice in these matters. I don't want to be subject to (as well as pay for) government 'wars' on salt, eggs, pot, beer, smoking, etcetera.

AII

I do not agree with 'laws' regulating food other than I do think stuff like forcing the release and display of dietary information about food, particularly with fast food, has been a good thing and helps people make smarter choices. And I never advocated for things like required lower salt/fat/whatever. However, blanket handwaving away that there's any possible credible reason for anyone but someone who is apparently a mongrel and rejects science to feel that a lot of salt intake is not good for many people, particularly people with the specific health risks associated with high salt intake, is not a very good conclusion from "the science." That was my sole point.

Perhaps people should read the study findings before jumping down throats next time.

[Adrian II]

Perhaps people should read the study findings before jumping down throats next time.

I am glad we showed you the way to Cochrane, instead of relying on 'my family and friends in the medical field, as well as a history of high blood pressure on my maternal side'.

The study you quote via Wikipedia is not the same as the one quoted by the Rabbit. No one here has reading problems.

AII

[Koga No Goshi]

I am glad we showed you the way to Cochrane, instead of relying on 'my family and friends in the medical field, as well as a history of high blood pressure on my maternal side'.

The study you quote via Wikipedia is not the same as the one quoted by the Rabbit. No one here has reading problems.

AII

I was talking about you condescending and asking me if I was even aware of the study.

High horse. Off.

[classical_hero]

Quit assalting the other side. I am surprised no one said that first. The problem is that we see so many studies that contradict each other. I am sure we will have studies show that sodium chloride will be a bad thing. The best thing we should do is eat things in moderation. We can find good things and bad things about food. Some food give us cancer and yet those same foods are good for us. It is very confusing to hear the "science" behind each of these studies. I have been told to cut down my salt intake due some health problems, but so far I have not and I am not even bothered to do so, since I don't believe it will do anything.

[drone]

They can take my salt lick when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands!

[Vladimir]

They can take my salt lick when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands!

All of a man's salt ultimately, belongs to his people - to his tribe. ... There is no escape...

http://www.angelfire.com/in4/worldof...unequotes.html

[a completely inoffensive name]

I think when the science isn't conclusive, and the politicians act like it is, that means they're going against current scientific research.

Nah, it just means they are either stupid or mislead.

[HoreTore]

If the free market could've given me what I wanted, I would be all for free choice.

Unfortunately, the market can't deliver. So, I have little against a government initiative to reduce salt. Though not by bans or regulations obviously, I have a giant mancrush on taxation.

Heck, I even love my high beer prices!

3 dollars for the store-bought 0,33 american pale ale I just drank, hooray!

[Louis VI the Fat]

no one is interested in your animosity toward Centurion, it's irrelevant.

AII

Irrelephant.

[Adrian II]

Anything unrelated to Louis is illouigical.

AII