Re: London riots
Bah.
The same was said of every working class riot a century ago. Funnily, it stopped once more humane and sustainable(as in creating a smaller income difference) policies were in place.
As always, the obvious solution is more social democracy. Screw the tories.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: London riots
Go down to Hackey, ask them if they want social democracy. Ask them if they know what it is. Tell me, if they want social democracy, why is one of the main aims looting? Does stealing a 50" plasma tv help social democracy? Is that their anti-establishment message? To ruin their local businesses? Don't insult the working class by associating them with thugs and hoodlums.Originally Posted by HoreTore
"A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."
Re: London riots
I feel like I'm talking to a bourgeoisie from 1890.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: London riots
This is also what the lady in The Telegraph is saying, only slightly more eloquently.
AIIThe failure of the markets goes hand in hand with human blight. Meanwhile, the view is gaining ground that social democracy, with its safety nets, its costly education and health care for all, is unsustainable in the bleak times ahead. The reality is that it is the only solution. After the Great Crash, Britain recalibrated, for a time. Income differentials fell, the welfare state was born and skills and growth increased.
That exact model is not replicable, but nor, as Adam Smith recognised, can a well-ordered society ever develop when a sizeable number of its members are miserable and, as a consequence, dangerous. This is not a gospel of determinism, for poverty does not ordain lawlessness. Nor, however, is it sufficient to heap contempt on the rioters as if they are a pariah caste.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: London riots
I feel like i'm talking to someone oblivious to reality. If it's a political revolt, why don't these thugs go and burn down Westminster? It's not far. Instead they loot their shops. You are aware these thugs set fire to a bus before, with people on it? I wonder how many evil Tories were on that bus.
Again, you insult the working class.
"A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."
Re: London riots
I'm skeptical of most of these explanations, why do we think that people won't just riot for the sake of rioting? I mean, maybe wealthy people don't feel like leaving their air condition so they don't riot.
They didn't have plasma tv's in 1890, god man where did you learn your history.
Re: London riots
Kinda funny how people can get more harshly than I could ever be
Re: London riots
I already said the weather (and no job).
Nobody listened?
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Re: London riots
I'd embed a particular Sublime youtube vid here, but there are a few f-bombs amidst the pertinent social commentary.
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If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat
"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
Re: London riots
If that were true, we would see lots of violent riots in all the world's major cities every day, or at least every weekend.
AII
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: London riots
Now, where did I say that?
I'm saying the revolt arose out a political situation, not that the goal of the riot itself was political. If I have't already, I'll say that the motivation to riot was frustration. I also agree with Adrians linky-link.
(how could I not agree with someone who quotes Adam Smith in favour of social democratic economic thinking?)
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: London riots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqj1N9qeWXI pretty lol if you ask me. Is multiculture, enjoy the enrichment we can really learn from eachother
Last edited by Fragony; 08-08-2011 at 22:33.
Re: London riots
Adam Smith was one of the most inspiring of social democratic authors.
Smith believed governments should build roads, bridges, and canals, finance public education, fund state hospitals and set up a state-run postal system. He objected to government intervention only in the form of mercantilism. Nor did he admire wealth or entrepreneurship. "Wealth and greatness are often regarded with the respect and admiration which are due only to wisdom and virtue (Theory of the Moral Sentiments, 1756).
AII
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: London riots
Holy ****, you mean the Victorians only had LCD TVs? What did they do when they wanted a 50 incher? No wonder they were so repressed.
Re: London riots
Ah, but this is a time to re-read that brilliant social commentator Hans Magnus Enzensberger.
From his Civil WarThe fighters know very well that there will be no victory. They know that, eventually, they will lose. And yet they do everything in their power to up the stakes. Their aim is to debase everybody--not only their opponents, but also themselves. A French social worker reports from a housing estate in the suburbs of Paris:
``They have destroyed everything: letter-boxes, doors, stairways. The health center, where their younger brothers and sisters receive free medical treatment, has been demolished and looted. They recognize no rules of any sort. They smash doctors' and dentists' surgeries to pieces and tear down their schools. When they are given a new football pitch, they saw down the goalposts.''
This picture of molecular civil war resembles the full-scale event down to the last detail. A reporter tells how he witnessed an armed band smashing up a hospital in Mogadishu. This was no military operation. No one was threatening the men, and no shots had been heard in the city. The hospital was already badly damaged, equipped only with the bare essentials. The perpetrators went about their business with a fierce thoroughness. Beds were slit open, bottles containing blood serum and medicine were shattered. Then the men, in torn and dirty camouflage uniform, set about destroying the few remaining pieces of apparatus. They did not leave until they had made sure that the single X-ray machine, the sterilizer and the oxygen generator were no longer usable. Each one of these zombies knew that there was no end to the war in sight. They all realized that within hours their lives might depend on whether there was a doctor around to patch them up. And still their obvious intent was to eliminate even the smallest chance of survival.
One is tempted to call this the reductio ad insanitatem. In the collective running amok, the concept of "future" disappears. Only the present matters. Consequences do not exist. The instinct for self-preservation, with the restraining influence it brings to bear, is knocked out of action.
Last edited by Adrian II; 08-08-2011 at 23:08.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: London riots
http://www.smh.com.au/world/london-r...809-1ijmm.html
Yeah they seem highly repressed citizens fighting for a better life.Social media played an important part in the rapid spread of unrest, police said.
Youths used sites such as Twitter and messaging services on Blackberry handsets to co-ordinate attacks.
Many messages sent using at least one of the services, called Blackberry Messenger, are untraceable by police, unlike conventional SMS, telephone calls or emails.
Blackberry said it would do what it could to help authorities manage the problem, the BBC reported.
Some youths posted photos of damage on Twitter and Facebook.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/london-r...#ixzz1UTgFbZMA
The looters are just oppourtunisitic thugs. I disagree with the idea that they are anymore then unorganised brownshirts. They are all little Robin Hoods who are giving back to themselves.
I don't think the penalty for common theft should be shooting. However when it is organised arson and looting for ones own enjoyment I hope they get the book thrown at them.
The looters are not making a political statement, they might be the end result of political policies... There are plenty more people in those same communities who were peacefully protesting or keeping out of the riots.
Semi-organised crime, using an oppourtunity with technology as a lever. Not oppressed masses heaving under the strain of 14hr working days and a poverty wage.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: London riots
Only if their hockey team has lost or their baseball team has won or some other spark...
Re: London riots
Welcome to Philadelphia;
I think all it takes is a large crowd of people with the right (or wrong, as it happens) mindset and a spark. Poverty, politics - it doesn't matter. We humans may not be as civilized as we like to think, and mob violence may be just a shift in the mood of a crowd away.The latest ‘mob’ cut right through the heart of Center City and now the Mayor is promising changes on how the city handles the problem.
The sudden, random violence of these mobs we’ve seen in the city and Upper Darby make them hard to predict and even harder to prevent.
In all, 59 people were beaten and briefly hospitalized.
I'm going to blame, in part, the welfare state. How many young people are unemployed and yet given money they have not earned? They have no respect for property because they do nothing to earn theirs.
And I recommend the Koreans-in-LA approach to property defense.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: London riots
There are stories of a group of Turks standing together and warding off a gang of rioters in one area.
Re: London riots
Looting is never committed by politically motivated citizens. It is a bunch of thugs who want a free tv.
And about instituting martial law.... I agree it shouldn't be used. However, there can be times of such great danger to the state and its populace that it is necessary
Re: London riots
I always figured that most riots begin with citizens who have legitimate reasons for protesting, but once the violence starts by one dude who is just a little bit too angry, then all the anarchists and ******** who riot for the fun of it swoop in and by the end of the day, the whole thing just looks like one big disgusting insult to society, although in all likeliness it probably didn't start with those intentions.
Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 08-09-2011 at 05:39. Reason: All letters of a profanity to be asterisked out
Re: London riots
What about the massive riots in LA that follow the lakers winning NBA championships?
Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 08-09-2011 at 05:40. Reason: Edited quote
Re: London riots
There is no reason to keep civil society. We all live once, it might as well be short, violent and exciting. I think people around the world are starting to get it - of all colors and creeds. down with authority, up with chaos.
The irony is that, in the Islamic Mediterranean, the rioting is due to the state abusing its people for generations and, just now trying to blackmail them to shutup. In the west, it is in response to the government being suckled bloody by its ravenous citizens, attempting to take a break, recuperate and get back to suckling.
I want to see heads roll in every direction. Like a giant fire hydrant of blood exploding all over the west, the east and everything in between. Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates, blowing up their local deli because it doesn't carry the right kind of pastrami, or because their bacon is never as crisp as you know you need it to be. Muslims raping and pillaging their local mosque because one of the women lifted her veil. Christians tearing open the bellies of the people who they believe ate all of their gold. Read the book of revelation on mushrooms, hanging from your pull-up bar if you want to see the world to come.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 08-09-2011 at 04:39.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: London riots
Yeah well if you jump dont expect everyone to follow you off that cliff. In my opinion anyone who harms, or even takes others with him, while "going out with a bang" is an utter waste of a good life.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: London riots
Ehhhh. This stuff is as interesting as he'll. I've never been as excited about the future as I have been over the past 3 years.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: London riots
No different. Bunch of drunk people celebrating the Lakers winning then one person throws a beer bottle at the guy wearing the Celtics jersey and suddenly you got a bunch of dudes coming out of their house snowballing the situation. Notice how when the cops are there in force directing the crowd as they leave the Staples center, nothing really happens much. The crowd doesn't just run out of the stadium as soon as the game is over and starts setting fires, throwing rocks at cops. These things are agitated or fed by outsiders.
Re: London riots
Cancer.
Re: London riots
I love when you do that
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: London riots
No doubt.
Re: London riots
Is this what the Org has become? Thinly veilied plagerism of one of the most widley read works of political philosiphy?
The rest of your post is stereotypical nhilism, like a college freshman after he reads fight club. Chaos runs contrary to progress and while curroption runs part and parcel with government, anarchy is simple stagnintation. So after chaos ensues and the system breaks, what then?
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
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