Euro Area

[Papewaio]

I know a lot of my post are barbed tongue in cheek... I just find it annoying when states fail at things that they should be good at and that others have managed to get their head around.

I think variations in social expectations does create tension, but not always bad. If society allows social mobility and the tension is not too great it can energise a nation and allow it to grow.

Both China and Japan tried to cut themselves off from the rest of the world only to have their nations fall backwards compared with the hustle and bustle of the trading European and American nations.

One wants to maintain a gentle simmer however and minimise the boil overs.

=][=
One of the reasons touted in getting rid of the Euro is the ability of nations to manage their debt by inflation... just remember it might be currency speculators doing the managing and the damaging instead.

I think governments need to look into more ways to cool off or warm up an economy instead of very broad measures like currency devaluation or increasing interest rates... what those tools could be well I'm not an economist... but it would be nicer to see some scapel instruments used rather then sledgehammers... I'm also against the manner in which interest rates are changed based on changes in the CPI due to increases in non-discretionary parts of the economy... raise petrol, CPI goes up therefore interest goes up because CPI rose... that and banks at least here raise and lower there interest rates based on the world economy not the local one.

[Furunculus]

Both China and Japan tried to cut themselves off from the rest of the world only to have their nations fall backwards compared with the hustle and bustle of the trading European and American nations.

you're conflating not wanting to be part of a federal entity with being insular and isolationist.

that is rather absurd, as we are one of the most open economies in the world, and already have free movement of people and goods within the european common market. britain isn't going to join the federal party, but many of the eurozone might if the currency is to survive, so it's about time that their governments sought mandate from their peoples don't you think?

One of the reasons touted in getting rid of the Euro is the ability of nations to manage their debt by inflation... just remember it might be currency speculators doing the managing and the damaging instead.

and to set an interest rate appropriate to that economies stage in its economic cycle. interests rates in the eurozone have been set to german preferences, i.e. too low for the rest, hence rampant borrowing from the olive nations that realised they'd never had it so good!

[Papewaio]

you're conflating not wanting to be part of a federal entity with being insular and isolationist.

that is rather absurd, as we are one of the most open economies in the world, and already have free movement of people and goods within the european common market. britain isn't going to join the federal party, but many of the eurozone might if the currency is to survive, so it's about time that their governments sought mandate from their peoples don't you think?

No what I'm worried about is too much "me-ism" and a potential backlash/over correction caused by over eager politicians who aren't the most subtle at times particularly when trying to read the murky crystal ball of opinion polls. The federated version I was thinking of was soverign nations check, with the EU politicans elected directly by the people. Allow a lot of autonomy for defence, eductation and hospitals, just try and unite the economy (but allow the people who are deciding this to be directly voted upon).

I think a mandate from their peoples should have been sought first and foremost before they let other countries meddle with their economic policies... which obviously effect their quality of life... not sure if I would be a fan of diminished soverignty for soverigns.

[Furunculus]

The federated version I was thinking of was soverign nations check, with the EU politicans elected directly by the people.

Small problem; no-one wants it.*



* other than beskar and six other people.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think a mandate from their peoples should have been sought first and foremost before they let other countries meddle with their economic policies... which obviously effect their quality of life... not sure if I would be a fan of diminished soverignty for soverigns.

This has been the British gripe for about 20 years, it's not EU integration per se Brits don't like, it's the fact that no one asked us.

[gaelic cowboy]

The federated version I was thinking of was soverign nations check, with the EU politicans elected directly by the people.

I can guarantee you that no one wants that here at all.

1921 for dominion status and 1948 for the declaration of the republic, it not long enough ago to be complacent about it, people are still very twitchy about having our own government. (hence all the NO votes and the crises that went with them)

No will be NO the next time just wait and see.

[Papewaio]

Free trade does not require the EU. Freedom of movement... well that is just a reciprocal visa arrangement... no need for an EU.

National budgets are what I elect my government to handle. I don't agree with the idea of having another nation decide my countries budget or a group of indirectly elected individuals doing so either.

I can understand loans between nations requiring it to be traded in a certain currency or bullion.

Having a bunch of rules that even the best economies don't follow either means the rules are stupid or there is no intention of following the rules. With no way or will to enforce rules, it seems stupid to create them in the first place. So it looks like all the worst attributes of government have been created. A bureaucracy for the pure sake of itself to make rules to keep itself in power that are of little to no benefit to anyone, with the political echelon selected by themselves... at least Napoleon and Hitler had pretty uniforms.

[Furunculus]

Free trade does not require the EU. Freedom of movement... well that is just a reciprocal visa arrangement... no need for an EU.

National budgets are what I elect my government to handle. I don't agree with the idea of having another nation decide my countries budget or a group of indirectly elected individuals doing so either.

I can understand loans between nations requiring it to be traded in a certain currency or bullion.

Having a bunch of rules that even the best economies don't follow either means the rules are stupid or there is no intention of following the rules. With no way or will to enforce rules, it seems stupid to create them in the first place. So it looks like all the worst attributes of government have been created. A bureaucracy for the pure sake of itself to make rules to keep itself in power that are of little to no benefit to anyone, with the political echelon selected by themselves... at least Napoleon and Hitler had pretty uniforms.

quite, i was perfectly content with the European Economic Community, precursor to the European Community, which itself was the precursor of today's EU.

[Fragony]

Finland says screw you to that Flemish ferret and his band. Extra cheese?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So it looks like all the worst attributes of government have been created. A bureaucracy for the pure sake of itself to make rules to keep itself in power that are of little to no benefit to anyone, with the political echelon selected by themselves... at least Napoleon and Hitler had pretty uniforms.

There you go, welcome to our world.

[Kralizec]

olive nations

I'm writing that one down.

Your Telegraph article is pretty selective in translating bits of Wullf's words. His full speech:
http://www.bundespraesident.de/Share...istraeger.html

Was wird da eigentlich verlangt? Mit wem würden Sie persönlich einen gemeinsamen Kredit aufnehmen? Auf wen soll Ihre Bonität zu Ihren Lasten ausgedehnt werden? Für wen würden Sie persönlich bürgen? Und warum? Für die eigenen Kinder – hoffentlich ja! Für die Verwandtschaft – da wird es schon schwieriger. Vielleicht würden wir bürgen, wenn nur so der andere die Chance bekommt, wieder auf die eigenen Füße zu kommen. Sonst doch nur dann, wenn wir wüssten, dass wir uns nicht übernehmen und die Bürgschaft in unserem, dessen und dem gemeinsamen Interesse ist. Auch der Bürge kann sich unmoralisch verhalten, wenn er die Insolvenz nur hinauszögert.

Paraphrased:
Would you put forward garantues for your children? Hopefully yes! For other relatives this question is more difficult. Perhaps we will lend garantues, when this is the only way to help the other get back on his feet. But only if it's in ours, theirs and the common interest. Even the garantuer can act unethically, when all he does is postpone insolvency.

Erst recht, wenn die obersten Währungshüter dafür auch noch weit über ihr Mandat hinausgehen und massiv Staatsanleihen - derzeit im Volumen von über 110 Milliarden Euro - aufkaufen. Dies kann auf Dauer nicht gut gehen und kann allenfalls übergangsweise toleriert werden. Auch die Währungshüter müssen schnell zu den vereinbarten Grundsätzen zurückkehren.

...the "currency guardian" (ECB) goes far beyond it's mandate by buying massive amounts of government bonds - exceeding 110 billion EURo. This can't go well in the long run and can only be tolerated as a transitional measure. The [ECB], too, must soon return to the agreed/established principles.

Und einen weiteren Befund finde ich bemerkenswert: Für die europäischen Länder ist ein enger Zusammenhang zwischen der Lebenszufriedenheit und dem Vertrauen in die Mitmenschen gemessen worden. Einander Vertrauen zu schenken, ehrlich miteinander zu sein, ist die Grundlage für menschliches Wohlbefinden, für Kooperation und Zusammenhalt. Gerade hier schließt sich der Kreis zur monetären Wirtschaft. Einander Kredit gewähren ist die Grundlage für eine funktionierende Marktwirtschaft und solides Wachstum. Auf Vertrauen kommt es an. Wir müssen ehrlich miteinander und mit uns selbst sein.

One other conclusion I find worth mentioning: for the European countries there is a narrow correlation between satisfaction in life and trust in the fellow man. To trust one another, to be honest with eachother, is the foundation of human welfare, for cooperation and cohesion. This is the exact point where the economic circle closes. To give eachother credit is the foundation of a functioning market economy and a solid growth rate. It depends on trust. We must be honest with eachother and ourselves.

....

That's just a few bits, of course. I've read the entire speech, and while it does contain criticism, it seems to me that the Telegraph has misrepresented it.