Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

[DaVinci]

I´m sorry, i did of course exagerate, but I was playing as Chokosabe and was expacting more emphasis on bowunits. I own 14 provinces on very hard settings but in total I can only recruit about 5 yumi ashigaru units + 3 Arquebus and 3 Yumi Samurai. When I said only Yari, I ment that for most of the other units it would say: you can´t recruit because you already have too many or something...

I didn´t really know about a lack of samurai in late Sengoku, while it sounds plausible, i find it a strange decission gameplaywise. However I would like to be able to recruit 1/3 Archery&Arquebus insted of a meagre 12 units all together...

greetz

Chosokabe has emphasis on bowunits: Most and best Ashi and Samurai archers in the mod.
And i just recommend the Jidai unit pack (DLC), so you'll get one more excellent Bow Samurai.

[Gervasi]

Chosokabe has emphasis on bowunits: Most and best Ashi and Samurai archers in the mod.
And i just recommend the Jidai unit pack (DLC), so you'll get one more excellent Bow Samurai.

sorry for posting again, just trying to get my point through. Those unit limits are really restricting. Chokosabe has emphasis on bowunits, so why, even if i have united the whole of Japan i can only recruit 5 Yumi Ashigaru and a grand total of 3 Yumi Samurai (looked it up in the pack file)? This seems pretty ridiculous to me (about 800 standard Archers for all of Japan) I would find it much better if you would have to have a ratio like you could have 1/3 samurai units, 1/3 ranged units and 1/3 Spear to reflect historic conditions and being limited by income, but than i don´t know if this is doable.

To mee it seems like the wrong approach to dictat armycomposition via unit limit.

[GShock]

I have witnessed first hand and agree with your thoughts in line of principle but take the example of shimazu. They have 4 katana sam and 2 ashi sams.
When you get higher in the tech tree, you can build the Nag ashi and one extra lesser kat sam. You also get the yari ashi with another tech but you need to have the blacksmith (which is in Satsuma).

So, as Chosokabe, you must access some resource + tech and conquer the provinces with blacksmith in order to be able to build more unit types. I can't relate to Chosokabe because I played only Shimazu and, occasionally and only for testing purposes, Date but I suppose the concept is the same.

You get more troopers once you have more provinces with different dojos and own the right resources... given the complexity of this recruitment system I recommend you to play for long and conquer different provinces in each game, then report back.

I am sure if something has been missed it will be added. I repeat, this IS a difficult recruitment system and it is both for the player AND for the modder. :)

[DaVinci]

GShock is talking about an internal wip-version, he relates it above to Shimazu's factionspecific units, that is not valid for other factions.

I might add some explanation to the Units Guide thread, when i've released the update.

[DaVinci]

sorry for posting again, just trying to get my point through. Those unit limits are really restricting. Chokosabe has emphasis on bowunits, so why, even if i have united the whole of Japan i can only recruit 5 Yumi Ashigaru and a grand total of 3 Yumi Samurai (looked it up in the pack file)? This seems pretty ridiculous to me (about 800 standard Archers for all of Japan) I would find it much better if you would have to have a ratio like you could have 1/3 samurai units, 1/3 ranged units and 1/3 Spear to reflect historic conditions and being limited by income, but than i don´t know if this is doable.

To mee it seems like the wrong approach to dictat armycomposition via unit limit.

In terms of realism-modding approaches, you are just wrong.

Here, check that, for a quick rough idea (DeMolay's post #6): http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=479507
And this for a closer picture: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=441983

If i would not use unit limitation, then the game would go with an ahistorical vanilla/campaign arcade system. There are mods like Darth Mod or Radious Mod mere of that direction, maybe those are more of your taste, they have no unit limitation, afaik, campaign-balancing is just not based on realism backgounds.

[Gervasi]

Apparently I constantly fail to make my point clear. So I try one more example of what buggs me.
Say Japan is devided in 5 clans, all those clans together could have about 20 Yumi Ashigaru. If I were to conquer all those clans and thus make them one huge area i could all of a sudden only have 5 Yumi Ahigaru (in case of Chokosabe). That doesn´t make sense.
Unfortunately I do not know about the mechanics of modding this game and if what I wish for could be achieved, but with the current system, I cannot compose my army historically (in what I perceive as historically correct mainly based on books of the Osprey Series). I would e.g. like to have 1/3 Archers and Arquebus without taking stupid Wakko pirate Archers, but if you have more than one major army that is near impossible.

I do very much like a hardcore realism approach to games, thats why I chose this mod and gameplay felt quite good, until I hit those severe restrictions.
What I would like to see, isn´t it possible to have kind of fixed recruitment lists for the KI? So they wouldn´t spam one unit or whatever? And wouldn´t it be a better approach to restrict access to units by regions owned, say province a -> 2 Samurai units 2 Archer and 4 Spear?

I´m sorry if I sounded too negativ or something, I just felt that to be a bad design choice that takes away a lot of fun in gameplay, it might be the best aproach to realizing realistic army compositions but i do not find it satisfying.

The one reason why I could not play any other mod is your Bow Samurai Units! Finaly someone who understands that a samurai using a bow would still be a capable melee fighter. I do love this design decission of yours!!!!

[DaVinci]

Say Japan is devided in 5 clans, all those clans together could have about 20 Yumi Ashigaru. If I were to conquer all those clans and thus make them one huge area i could all of a sudden only have 5 Yumi Ahigaru (in case of Chokosabe). That doesn´t make sense.

Right, i'm working on that.
The modding of the game into this direction needs unit-additions, and the recruitment of those unit additions via certain buildings. I'm currently working on the system, that allows a kind of ZoR/AoR units, but i won't really make them region-resource dependent, but building- and art-researchment dependent to delay their availability. While also, i'm doing it with faction-consideration, not all factions shall have the same abilities.

A system with region-resource-dependence is in TROM3, needs a lot of time modding that approach, and is just another approach, i like it, but i won't realise that, because S2R+ is not at the start, plus it would mirror TROM3 with a slight other design only .. however, main reason is, S2R+ is vastly advanced, and starting from scratch would need another half-year (or longer) until i have it balanced like i want it.

[DaVinci]

Just info:

S2R+ version 2.9 will be released after CA's big patch release.

V 2.9 will have a lot alterations. Modding contents are (again) overworking the gameplay, realism, BAI and CAI aspects.

We developed and tested/discussed internally, since the public release of v2.6.
Means, we have dozens 2.7x.x versions and currently multiple 2.8x.x versions in the making.

[GShock]

11 days to go for the patch. :)