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Thread: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

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  1. #1
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    If you wonder if you have it, you probably do.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster View Post
    If you wonder if you have it, you probably do.
    I disagree with this. People in general are stupid and as I have said above, they like to throw that word around everywhere. People in Arizona will wonder if there is fascism running around because the state government put red light cameras at intersections to prevent speeding. Whether or not this is a good policy is besides the point. It certainly ain't fascism, despite the tea party "wondering" out loud if it is so.


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    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    One day you have speed cameras, the next you're invading Poland. Say it ain't so.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  4. #4
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    "Fascism" is unfortunately one of those words that now has a lot of different meanings which are seen as legitimate.

    You can use it to describe authoritarian policies nowadays, or you can use it to describe a political movement (or maybe more accurately a series of political movements) that came about in the twentieth century.

    For the latter, what regimes count as fascist really depends on how strict you are with the definition of it. If you just go along with the rampant nationalism part, then Franco's Spain and Salazar's Portugal come under it. But then if you look at the attitudes that it supposedly takes towards modernisation and embracing industrialisation, then they don't. Nazi Germany's obsession with racial purity was unique. Mussolini wasn't particularly antisemitic.

    I also don't agree with the first article in that fascist movements isolate themselves and don't attempt to export their models to other countries. Oswald Mosley was a big fan of creating a EU-style fascist superstate.

    If I had to define fascism I would say that it was a 'third way' between capitalism and communism. Most fascist movements had a working-class/lower middle-class core, and so it shoudln't be surprising that they took a very left-leaning, socialist approach to the economy (at least in their theory in the early days, before necessity took them down another route). What made them different from the left was that they combined this with the nationalism of the right.

    Remember what Mussolini said he didn't like about the left was that it was too materialistic... fascism was basically leftism with a bunch of emotional/abstract social values added on.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    a slight burning sensation when going to the bathroom is normally the first indication. :P

    the term is hard to define.....for example here in Portugal we normal refer to Salazar's regime as fascist even if it does not meet every single bullet point........it felt fascist enough for the people sent to jail for thought crimes and maybe that's enough of a definition.
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    Facism is force, it can come from all directions, left, right, green or brown it doesn't really matter where it's comming from. It's the murder of individualism

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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    The best I can remember from history class is that it rejects socialism by being against ideas of the class system, promoting instead national unity, and focuses on a bunch of things that are supposed to make the country more unified like war, purity based on ancestry or race, common education, with a push for strength and so on. I read part of the first article but he seemed to be overcomplicating things.

    hmm, this is what I remember reading:

    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/m...ni-fascism.asp

    Benito Mussolini (1883-1945) over the course of his lifetime went from Socialism - he was editor of Avanti, a socialist newspaper - to the leadership of a new political movement called "fascism" [after "fasces", the symbol of bound sticks used a totem of power in ancient Rome].

    Mussolini came to power after the "March on Rome" in 1922, and was appointed Prime Minister by King Victor Emmanuel.

    In 1932 Mussolini wrote (with the help of Giovanni Gentile) and entry for the Italian Encyclopedia on the definition of fascism.

    *********

    Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death....

    ...The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after...

    ...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

    After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

    ...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absur[d] conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress....

    ...iven that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....

    The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State. The conception of the Liberal State is not that of a directing force, guiding the play and development, both material and spiritual, of a collective body, but merely a force limited to the function of recording results: on the other hand, the Fascist State is itself conscious and has itself a will and a personality -- thus it may be called the "ethic" State....

    ...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

    ...For Fascism, the growth of empire, that is to say the expansion of the nation, is an essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite a sign of decadence. Peoples which are rising, or rising again after a period of decadence, are always imperialist; and renunciation is a sign of decay and of death. Fascism is the doctrine best adapted to represent the tendencies and the aspirations of a people, like the people of Italy, who are rising again after many centuries of abasement and foreign servitude. But empire demands discipline, the coordination of all forces and a deeply felt sense of duty and sacrifice: this fact explains many aspects of the practical working of the regime, the character of many forces in the State, and the necessarily severe measures which must be taken against those who would oppose this spontaneous and inevitable movement of Italy in the twentieth century, and would oppose it by recalling the outworn ideology of the nineteenth century - repudiated wheresoever there has been the courage to undertake great experiments of social and political transformation; for never before has the nation stood more in need of authority, of direction and order. If every age has its own characteristic doctrine, there are a thousand signs which point to Fascism as the characteristic doctrine of our time. For if a doctrine must be a living thing, this is proved by the fact that Fascism has created a living faith; and that this faith is very powerful in the minds of men is demonstrated by those who have suffered and died for it.

    Anyway, it's misused so much that I don't trust anyone who just drops the word without a more detailed explanation. And don't get me started on the "neo-[loaded word]" formulation that some people with just enough intellect to be intellectually dishonest use.

    1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.


    On my own browsing, I would have skipped that article simply based on the title "Fascism, Anyone?". Where does "[],anyone?" come from anyway? Glad to see my filter works that efficiently.

    Add "proto[loaded word]" formulations to what I said about "neo" above. Also "Modern [fill in]" formulations as well.

  8. #8
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is fascism and how do we know we have it?

    Classical facism is a class-based ultra-nationalist militaristic society, so any nation state really (yes that came from me)
    Last edited by Fragony; 09-10-2011 at 10:07.

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