Capo di Tutti Capi IV [Concluded]

[The Stranger]

I don't personally trust sources that give unclear investigations results.



Since detectives are not listed as able to obtain unclear results, you are either in contact with a third party or a mafioso, and none of them are nominally town aligned. Cough them up.

Unvote:, Vote: Erebus

detectives also register as unclear so your mistrust is misguided.

from my townie pm

1. If you are investigated by a detective, it is likely that you will be evaluated as “innocent.” A minority of townies, however, will register as “unclear,” while an even smaller percentage will register as “criminal” because of a mis-spent youth or poor choice of associates.

[God Emperor]

untrue.. from the rules: A townie has no special abilities – at least at the start. Most Townies will appear as “innocent” if investigated by a detective, though a minority will appear as “unclear” and a very small minority as “criominal.” If investigated by a made, the most will be “innocent,” some “unclear,” and a minority “criminal.”

[ULC]

detectives also register as unclear so your mistrust is misguided.

from my townie pm

And yet the rules state that Detectives obtain Innocent, Criminal, and Guilty. Nothing is made mention of "Unclear". I standby my statements, especially since being in contact with two detectives when the vast majority of those capable of investigating are Mades and third parties...yea, no.

[God Emperor]

To me there is only one way to procede from here: Subotan must inform us of which kill(s) he is responsible for. Or if anyone can do this for him

[The Stranger]

And yet the rules state that Detectives obtain Innocent, Criminal, and Guilty. Nothing is made mention of "Unclear". I standby my statements, especially since being in contact with two detectives when the vast majority of those capable of investigating are Mades and third parties...yea, no.

so if you are proven wrong on that point you will reconsider? because you are wrong!

you obviously dont have a townie pm or havent read it correctly. go read it -_- if you want one pm me and ill send it to you... or check the rules townie pms are posted there i guess.

[ULC]

you obviously dont have a townie pm or havent read it correctly. go read it -_-

I've read it, and I can potentially appear as unclear, but the rules, which are plastered in the summary thread, state that Detectives do not get unclear results. SECOND, Erebus essentially claims being in contact with two detectives, which I find extremely unlikely. The weight of numbers says that ONE of his contacts is an anti-town investigator, likely the one that came up with an unclear result.

Technically, it could be cleared up with another night of investigation - the investigators switch, and the results should come up the same IF they are the same role. Differing roles will obtain different results, but any single type of role will always obtain the same investigation results. My only issue is - how do I trust Erebus to report back truthfully?

[Montmorency]

To me there is only one way to procede from here: Subotan must inform us of which kill(s) he is responsible for. Or if anyone can do this for him

Last night, he claims to have attacked me. Must be Blackadder if he did kill.

Now why would he want to kill Blackadder on N1? What's the rationale?

[The Stranger]

I've read it, and I can potentially appear as unclear, but the rules, which are plastered in the summary thread, state that Detectives do not get unclear results. SECOND, Erebus essentially claims being in contact with two detectives, which I find extremely unlikely. The weight of numbers says that ONE of his contacts is an anti-town investigator, likely the one that came up with an unclear result.

Technically, it could be cleared up with another night of investigation - the investigators switch, and the results should come up the same IF they are the same role. Differing roles will obtain different results, but any single type of role will always obtain the same investigation results. My only issue is - how do I trust Erebus to report back truthfully?

i dont see the problem. this mightve been a good idea in the case of criminal but guilty is unifrormly and there never is a mistake. as a towny you are scanned guilty ONLY when you have killed someone.

so the problem is yes, is the source valid, but this has nothing to do with the other detective...

the rules seem to conflict then. but i think what is in the townie pm is what we should go with. maybe a pm to seamus can solve this matter.

[Xenoneb]

Last night, he claims to have attacked me. Must be Blackadder if he did kill.

Now why would he want to kill Blackadder on N1? What's the rationale?

He doesn't like Mr. Bean?

[ULC]

Last night, he claims to have attacked me. Must be Blackadder if he did kill.

Now why would he want to kill Blackadder on N1? What's the rationale?

Or he is a wiseguy, and needs to be forced into a protection group to prevent being turned into a made.

[The Stranger]

Last night, he claims to have attacked me. Must be Blackadder if he did kill.

Now why would he want to kill Blackadder on N1? What's the rationale?

no he is also listed as guilty on the night of the kill so he can also be listed guilty for any of the n2 kills.

[ULC]

so if you are proven wrong on that point you will reconsider? because you are wrong!

Somewhat, I'll move from outright suspicion to leery, simply because being in contact with two detectives so early is heavily improbable, with one likely being mafia or third party by sheer weight of numbers.

i dont see the problem. this mightve been a good idea in the case of criminal but guilty is unifrormly and there never is a mistake. as a towny you are scanned guilty ONLY when you have killed someone.

the rules seem to conflict then. but i think what is in the townie pm is what we should go with. maybe a pm to seamus can solve this matter.

I don't see an issue with the detectives switching around to confirm themselves and Erebus as being legitimate sources. Unclear is the worst result you can get and anything to further clarify that is a good thing. Are we being evasive about having your alignment checked again?

[Montmorency]

no he is also listed as guilty on the night of the kill so he can also be listed guilty for any of the n2 kills.

See below.

Or he is a wiseguy, and needs to be forced into a protection group to prevent being turned into a made.

Or? That has nothing to do with what I said. If he read as guilty, then he must have killed someone. He claims to have participated on the vig on me N2. Ergo, he could only have killed N1. The only player killed N1 was Blackadder, ergo Subotan helped kill Blackadder.

[The Stranger]

no. i dont mind being checked again. i have nothing to hide.

but if the result on subo is genuine and he is not a townie but a made or sumthing he wont show up as guilty next night if he doesnt kill. if he is a townie he should show up as guilty again i guess.

[Suburban Plankton]

So we've got Subotan being investigated as "guilty", ACIN still a liar from Yesterday, and MRD suspicious for his overreaction to being found "criminal".

I'm still unclear what to make of the dustup between Subotan and The Stranger overNight, and I'm not a fan at all of the bandwagon on Montmorency.

For the moment I'll stick with my first instinct:

Vote: ACIN

Does anyone have a current vote count?

[Kennigit]

Unvote; Vote:Subotan

I think the scan result is solid to warrant him answering whats up.

[ULC]

Or? That has nothing to do with what I said. If he read as guilty, then he must have killed someone. He claims to have participated on the vig on me N2. Ergo, he could only have killed N1. The only player killed N1 was Blackadder, ergo Subotan helped kill Blackadder.

Yes, but looking at the kill on Blackadder would still likely make him a Wiseguy, likely going for Made - thus actually answering your question. He's not mafia now but likely going for mafia, which puts him and ACIN in the same traitorous boat.

[Winston Hughes]

I've read it, and I can potentially appear as unclear, but the rules, which are plastered in the summary thread, state that Detectives do not get unclear results. SECOND, Erebus essentially claims being in contact with two detectives, which I find extremely unlikely. The weight of numbers says that ONE of his contacts is an anti-town investigator, likely the one that came up with an unclear result.

Where does Erebus say he has two detectives reporting to him?

Also, you're wrong about the unclear thing; it's stated quite clearly:

Most Townies will appear as “innocent” if investigated by a detective, though a minority will appear as “unclear” and a very small minority as “criominal."

[The Stranger]

Yes, but looking at the kill on Blackadder would still likely make him a Wiseguy, likely going for Made - thus actually answering your question. He's not mafia now but likely going for mafia, which puts him and ACIN in the same traitorous boat.

that is if he was involved in that. i doubt it cuz GH who seems to know what he has done and it was GH who claimed he was vigging montmerency, it wasnt subo himself who hasnt said a thing yet. anyway GH said he was guilty cuz he tried to kill montmerency, this is clearly wrong. but if he also vigged blackadder, then why didnt GH just say that?

[Xenoneb]

Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise Guy or Townie who has killed – you either get the current kill or their whole track record as well). Acts as a Townie in other respects. Reads as “innocent” if investigated.

Guys, he only needs to now one detective to name two people. He would need to know two Mades to do any other way.

[TinCow]

Unvote; Vote: Subotan

Erebus' detectives deserve some scrutiny, but that doesn't really invalidate the results. The rules say that Mades get innocent, criminal, and unclear; no mention of guilty. There's no real reason for scum to falsify detective results at this point. Plus, if the results are faked we will know it when Subotan explains what he was doing, plus we'll get the full autopsy on him in three days. At that point, and falsifications by the detective claimer will be apparent and the person can be exposed and lynched. This lynch is win-win.

[ULC]

Where does Erebus say he has two detectives reporting to him?

Also, you're wrong about the unclear thing; it's stated quite clearly:

A guilty result means it wasn't an FBI detective since there has only been two nights and you can't get guilty until you have killed, correct me if I am wrong. So I am assuming he is not in contact with anything other then different sources. Also, those are odd choices to make on N1, that happen to be pertinent choices on D2/3.

And back to this again - look at the Detective role, it does not state the detective can get unclear, and if it's an FBI detective, then it's even less likely to get unclear if at all. Finally, I've already shot Seamus a PM to clarify.

[GeneralHankerchief]

To be fair, I was only trying to put what I thought was two and two together, since Subo told me he was going Nazi hunting last night and then the whole thing with Monty coming out and being a Nazi mason. I was also under the assumption that one got a "guilty" result even if the kill had failed, which clearly isn't the case.

[The Stranger]

i think the unclear thing is new and so doesnt list in the old pms. tho its weird that townie pms about detectives conflict with what detective pms say about townies... must be some mix up.

[ULC]

Unvote; Vote: Subotan

Erebus' detectives deserve some scrutiny, but that doesn't really invalidate the results. The rules say that Mades get innocent, criminal, and unclear; no mention of guilty. There's no real reason for scum to falsify detective results at this point. Plus, if the results are faked we will know it when Subotan explains what he was doing, plus we'll get the full autopsy on him in three days. At that point, and falsifications by the detective claimer will be apparent and the person can be exposed and lynched. This lynch is win-win.

I don't think Subo's investigation is wrong, perse, but that whomever investigated TS is questionable.

[The Stranger]

To be fair, I was only trying to put what I thought was two and two together, since Subo told me he was going Nazi hunting last night and then the whole thing with Monty coming out and being a Nazi mason. I was also under the assumption that one got a "guilty" result even if the kill had failed, which clearly isn't the case.

now you are backing up on something you put forward rather easily as a sure claim. isnt it odd that subo knew already about montmerencys nazi thing but hasnt said a thing about it during the entire discussion?

it seems u and subo are kinda close, care to elaborate?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Not to brag, but I figured out the SSV thing was a code word about five seconds after Subo posted it the second time, and PM'd him saying to keep me in the loop. He has, to an extent.

[TinCow]

I don't think Subo's investigation is wrong, perse, but that whomever investigated TS is questionable.

Agreed.

[Beskar]

To be fair, I was only trying to put what I thought was two and two together, since Subo told me he was going Nazi hunting last night and then the whole thing with Monty coming out and being a Nazi mason. I was also under the assumption that one got a "guilty" result even if the kill had failed, which clearly isn't the case.

There are Nazi's in this game? o_O

[The Stranger]

Not to brag, but I figured out the SSV thing was a code word about five seconds after Subo posted it the second time, and PM'd him saying to keep me in the loop. He has, to an extent.

subo claims it was no code but that he has been using it even before mafia started. and that he kept using it so he might draw some 3rd parties...

so is a code? or is he just pretending that it is a code?