End of the Third Age

[Zim]

That's kind of the way I see it. Plus, after the retreat the enemy has the chance to take them at the point they retreated from as the owning player can't move them out of danger.

But then NB might have thought Denethor was out of bounds per the rule and not attacked him for that reason.

[phonicsmonkey]

But then NB might have thought Denethor was out of bounds per the rule and not attacked him for that reason.

Denethor was in Osgiliath right?

In which case he gets no immunity even if the rule is in place, so if NB thought that he would have been mistaken:

- An army which is beaten in battle may not be attacked on the following turn (because it is immobilized either by the game mechanic or by the rule above) by any faction unless it has retreated to a fort or settlement.

[Zim]

Nah, last turn I used Denethor to attack the army sieging West Osgiliath against a superior Orcish army. I lost the abttle and was not able to relieve the siege, and Denthor had retreated a bit southwest of the city. Osgiliath fell and I only took it this turn because the army within appeared as reinforcements to the one I attacked.

I don't think Denethor was attacked and defeated in the meantime on Mordor's turn as his bodyguard unit was about full size and he was in the spot I remembered (if he had been then he shouldn't have been able to mvoe this turn) but I'd need verification from NB to be sure.

[phonicsmonkey]

Nah, last turn I used Denethor to attack the army sieging West Osgiliath against a superior Orcish army. I lost the abttle and was not able to relieve the siege, and Denthor had retreated a bit southwest of the city. Osgiliath fell and I only took it this turn because the army within appeared as reinforcements to the one I attacked.

I don't think Denethor was attacked and defeated in the meantime on Mordor's turn as his bodyguard unit was about full size and he was in the spot I remembered (if he had been then he shouldn't have been able to mvoe this turn) but I'd need verification from NB to be sure.

Ah, I see. And you did state (incorrectly ) in your post at the end of your last turn that he was immune.

I guess it just hinges on whether NB would have attacked him on his turn if he had the chance or not. You might need to go back to Mordor's turn for the replay.

[Zim]

So if there was a mistake I caused it.

We'll see what NB thinks when he gets back. I think as far as replaying turns It'd be better to just leave Denethor where he is a further turn rather than go through all the turns. Mordor can still kill him and it will take less time to sort out than replays.

Ah, I see. And you did state (incorrectly ) in your post at the end of your last turn that he was immune.

I guess it just hinges on whether NB would have attacked him on his turn if he had the chance or not. You might need to go back to Mordor's turn for the replay.

[Nightbringer]

Ya, I wanted to attack Denethor who was just outside the city but couldn't because of that rule. I could easily see him and he was all on his own with a full stack of orcs next to him. I don't want to make people replay their turns so I don't need to go back and attack him on mine. I think what would be best is if he is left where he is right now for this turn as that is what Zim had said in his previous post. In the future we can change it so peoples own defeated armies are not subject to this rule.

[phonicsmonkey]

So if there was a mistake I caused it.

We'll see what NB thinks when he gets back. I think as far as replaying turns It'd be better to just leave Denethor where he is a further turn rather than go through all the turns. Mordor can still kill him and it will take less time to sort out than replays.

Makes sense.

[Zim]

I'll replay in the morning.

While we have a chance there were a couple other things I've been wondering about. The former happened on the previous turns, the latter then and on mine.

When you siege a settlement in TATW it appears to use the mod trick of creating an impassable zone around the settlement that prevents anyone that isn't attacking from moving through the space (represented on map by the little tents around the besieged settlement. I counted on this to protect my main army when I sieged East Osgiliath. However, clicking on the army sieging the settlement allows you to go through it. Or more, accurately, you pass into the otherwise impassable tile next to the city and then stop.

The second thing, which I thought of as additional protection, was the freezing of a unit upon hitting a tile next to an enemy/neutral settlement. Apparently an army frozen in such a manner can still move a tile if they have an adjacent enemy to click on. I assume this is in game to be able to attack settlements (you freeze entering the tile next to a settlement but can still click on and attack it. The game program doesn't know the difference between the settlement and adkacent armies for moving purposes). NB did this after passing through the siege tents, and I did it with Denethor to hit his army on the bridge.

Imagine my surprise when my doubly protected army was defeated by an enemy that bypassed the settlement that had to be taken before you can enter the bridge west of it.

These are tricks that I think the AI is incapable of. I'm not sure if a rule is needed for this (there are probably a hundred different little unintended "exploits" that can't all be ruled on) but at least would like to warn players of this particular looparound for getting around/through chokepoints.

[Nightbringer]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, I know all I did was right click on your army. I have noticed a lot of strange things that happen with osgiliath in this mod. Having a bridge between two adjacent settlements seem to create some very odd occurrences, at least in my experience playing SP.

[Zim]

When you siege a settlement insome mods it creates an impassable one tile layer covering the little pixelated tents around the city, so that you cannot go onto any tile adjacent to the city unless you click on the city itself or on something past the city and get stopped next to it. Checking an old save this appears not to be the case in TATW so I was mistaken.

Usually you also cannot attack an army on the other side of a settlement that's not your unless you take the long way around or click on the opposing army, get stopped by passing the town, then click on the army again (at least, I think that works). The bridge between the Osgiliaths seems to be some wierd sort of bug or exception since you can somehow move diagonally past the settlement to immediately attack someone in between, but only if an army is on the bridge. I checked it and with no army to target between the cities you get stuck and cannot bypass one to get onto the bridge (not in a single turn at least).

I was counting on the fact you would not be able to past rebel East Osgiliath to attack my army on the bridge. Finding that rebel settlement could somehow be bypassed was quite shocking. I'm not complaining (I did it back to you the turn after, with less successful results) but it's a wierd enough bug (or whatever we want to call it) tha I wanted the other players to be aware of it just in case it causes issues with other choke points. Aorry that my last post was a bit of a jumble. I was rushing off to work when I made it, and got some of the mechanics wrong.

This save should be fixed.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=205&id=9638

[Nightbringer]

no problem, I just wanted to be sure I didn't do something I shouldn't. I guess I wasn't suprised by that because I have played this mod enough in SP to know that that bridge is very odd.

[Myth]

Sorry but which faction is due to play now? I see only links to the saves but not who is up :)

[Zim]

Rohan, which I understand is still in need of a sub.

[slysnake]

Has he actually quit? RexLegend may be able to take his place...

[Zim]

I guess he said in a TWC thread that he was quitting hotseats for a while. I'll pm him and see if I can get ahold of him but given his last activity date I'm not optimistic.

Last Activity: 10-03-11 15:18

[Zim]

No response. Any allies willing to sub? I'd like to wait a couple turns before deciding whether to turn the faction AI or not.

[Myth]

I'll sub tonight.

[RexLegend]

Birdie on the tree told me ya that there's something causin' problem? I'm interested about this, but I need to take a look on save to make decision. Is it ok? :)

[Myth]

Zim should I play Rohan's turn or do we give it to RexLegend?

[Zim]

If he's interested he's welcome to take a look.

I see a new password was set for the faction. Would you be able to send it to him or is it something you use for your own factions in other games?

[RexLegend]

Bump.

Well, if turn has crucial importance, then I think Myth could play it. Either password needs resetting or sent to me via PM, so I could take a look.

[Mithridate]

If possible Id like to join up as well. Is there a spot?

I have to say, I LOVE the dales :)

[Nightbringer]

rohan is available, and it is there turn right now.

PS, welcome to the game!!
I caught it this time :)

[phonicsmonkey]

In the absence of Zim I'll say I think Rex was first in best dressed to take over Rohan. However he needs the pw cleared so he can look at the save and I don't have TATW installed so I can't help...I will keep an eye out for Zim and alert him to this. Maybe in the meantime Myth should sub to keep the game moving.

[Nightbringer]

oh woops, sorry, I didn't realize rex had accepted the offer.

[Myth]

Sure.

[phonicsmonkey]

oh woops, sorry, I didn't realize rex had accepted the offer.

that's the impression I got but I think he wanted to look at the save before committing to it

[Myth]

If you have the admin PW I can clear the save for our new player. I swear not to abuse it for anything else, and when Zim comes he can change it.

[phonicsmonkey]

If you have the admin PW I can clear the save for our new player. I swear not to abuse it for anything else, and when Zim comes he can change it.

Actually you can't change it after the game has started and he might use it elsewhere so I would rather wait for him if that's ok

[Myth]

Well if you can't change it there's no way I'd want to know it :)