Euro Area

[phonicsmonkey]

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that Britain would not be handing over it's sovereignty because it can just ignore the law. Is that really any better? If you sign something because you think it's unenforceable, what do you do if it becomes enforceable in the future? Or what if it's not clear if it's enforceable? In fact, this is the same logic that the south used to justify seceding from the US and which started the Civil War.

Cecil, I'm not saying they should have signed it because it wouldn't have been enforceable. I'm saying that even if they had decided to sign it, for whatever reason, that wouldn't have represented a handover of sovereignty because it's a treaty between nations which can be revoked by Parliament at any time.

Nation states enter into treaties all the time which impact on their sovereign powers (for example a mutual defence pact which 'compels' the nation to go to war under certain circumstances) without actually giving up sovereignty. As long as you can break a treaty you are still sovereign.

Interesting example of the US civil war. Under my analysis you could say the South was asserting its sovereignty and by winning the war the North asserted its own and removed the South's. In fact invasion (or surrender in the face of it) is really the only way to transfer or expunge a nations' sovereignty in the truest sense.

As it goes I'm not sure whether they should have signed it or not - a lot will depend on what position the UK is now able to occupy within the larger EU negotiating group and whether it can now secure outcomes in the UK interest. The cost to the UK of signing (tobin tax etc) might have been worth the benefit of being on the inside, might not - I don't feel able to take a position on that right now.

PVC, I'm not currently living in England and haven't for some years to I'm not best placed to comment on the party political situation, but it does appear that Cameron is being held hostage by the crazy right wing of his party (see John Redwood's leadership bid in 1995 and the living dead that supported it - these are the people currently in charge of Britain!) and that Clegg is better placed to put up and shut up...his protestations are merely grand standing for the benefit of his own party as he cannot afford to force an election and go to the polls.