The continuation of my Israel experience thread

[Pannonian]

Do I really have to act surprised if there are religious nutjobs in the middle-east?

But why do you take the side of these religious nutjobs, to the point of excusing everything they do?

[Fragony]

But why do you take the side of these religious nutjobs, to the point of excusing everything they do?

I do that? There are just worse things happening in the world. These ultra orthodox jews are sufficiently disliked by normal Israeli

[a completely inoffensive name]

To be honest, after reading what Hooahguy has said I have changed my mind about a few things.

A. If Israel wants to exist as a Jewish state and not a Democratically Jewish state, I don't feel like the US should give it foreign aid.
B. I don't buy into Fragony's muslim bashing. But it seems all attempts at multiculturalism is blocked by stubborn immigrants from the middle east, I don't want Western civilization torn apart from the inside from all this friction.
C. I still think that Israel has every right to defend itself and take actions against Iran as it sees fit as long as the US isn't dragged into it.
D. However, I feel that Israel should disclose its nuclear capabilities. Everyone knows they have them, but to keep the charade going is not making sense to me. If someone can explain the realpolitik of it, that would be great.

[lars573]

D. However, I feel that Israel should disclose its nuclear capabilities. Everyone knows they have them, but to keep the charade going is not making sense to me. If someone can explain the realpolitik of it, that would be great.

It's because of how they got them. Some western nation (France, US, both) gave nuclear weapons to Israel. In direct violation of about a dozen arms trade and non-proliferation treaties. So if they admit it, the next question is how did you get them. And whom ever is the answer to that question doesn't want it answered.

[Hooahguy]

I find out tomorrow if Ill be going home for good.
Though Im pretty sure that I am coming home, I never know with my parents...

EDIT: Turns out Im not finding out if I go home today. My parents called saying that they will send me an email later, possibly tomorrow, with various concerns and ideas, and they said that the final decision will be made in like a month.

[Hooahguy]

So today an admin for my institution came into my room while I was not there (though there were witnesses) and tore down my American flag, which I put up after my roommates said I could.
Get me the out of here.

[Hooahguy]

Ok, latest horrific story from the "front lines" of religious extremism:

So a few days ago I was sitting in my apartment's lounge area reading a book about a British EOD team in Iraq, minding my own business when two guys from my apartment come in. They are both 2nd year students at my institution, something called "Shana Bet (year two).

Now let me fill you in on the "Shana Bet" and how they work. A year ago they were normal teens, but for some reason coming back for a 2nd year changes them. They look at all the first year guys and think of how horrible they were just a year ago and promptly begin to criticize every little thing that they view is wrong, from looking at picures of girls on facebook to reading non-jewish books. I can tell you, its really annoying, though there are a couple of 2nd year guys who are really nice and dont annoy the out of everyone by preaching to them.

Anyhow, so I was sitting there reading when one of these guys comments "Its going to be hilarious when America starts passing laws decriminating against Jews."
I could have gone into a long explanation why that would never happen, but I decided to keep quiet.

Then they sat down near me and began talking about random things. Somehow they got to the topic of Arabs.

One of them said that all Arabs were disgusting people, and that they are the cause of the world's problems.

I replied, "well, I think that greed, resentment and hate are the causes of the world's problems. You cant pin all problems on a certain people."

"Well yeah of course but that doesnt hide the fact that Arabs are horrible people."

"I know a few Arabs and they are very nice people. You shouldnt say things like that."

"But they are. The Palestinians hate us."

"Well, if someone came in and kicked you out of your land, then you would hate them too."

"Is that an excuse for blowing up bombs in civilian areas?"

"No, did I say it was?"

No reply from this guy.

I then told him "you cant say that all Arabs are evil people. Saying things like that validates other people saying that all Jews are evil. Saying stuff like that makes you no better than them."

Furious, he got up and left, with his friend giving me a nasty glare and leaving with him.

Sadly, opinions like his are in the vast majority of people here.
Its sad that in their own hate they do not see their own ignorance and hypocrisy.

[Pannonian]

I do that? There are just worse things happening in the world. These ultra orthodox jews are sufficiently disliked by normal Israeli

You've defended the West Bank settlements as the result of war. But it's not the result of any secular war, as Fatah and Israel are supposedly on peaceful relations with each other, with Fatah having recognised Israel's existence. You've ascribed the loss of the West Bank land to the continued activities of Hamas, who are the power in Gaza, not the area where Israel is taking land. So how does your justification of the continued Israeli expansion in the West Bank work out? Is it because you think all Arabs are the same, and so what one group does can legitimately result in the punishment of another? Or is it because you support the biblical Greater Israel that the religious wingnuts are trying to recreate?

[Fragony]

Me supprting biblical Israel that's a good one, never noticed that I am no fan of religion, whatever one. You are looking for hypocrisy where there isn't any.

'Is it because you think all Arabs are the same'

What makes you think I think that, kinda puzzled here. What's with the 'all' and 'everything' thing anyway

'Is it because you think all Arabs are the same'
'to the point of excusing everything they do'

Neither mia muca