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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    I've always thought one of the great strengths of Christianity is that we do not, in the majority, regard the Bible as the literal word of God. As an earlier poster said, it's not a book; it's a library, cobbled together over millennia. It's full of poetry, wisdom, mutually contradictory instructions, stories, weirdness, sublime passages, the works.

    A childhood friend of mine became a monk. He had an interesting take on the ritual and mind-bending contradictions of the Bible: "All of that **** is poetry. God doesn't care about it, just that we do good works and live good lives." Which coincides nicely with Rabbi Hillel's take on scripture: "That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
    That is close to Quakerism. Most high churches aren't going to say all their heirachy, money and power is tacked on and not required. Women are still not ordained, priests don't marry due to dogma.

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Women are still not ordained, priests don't marry due to dogma.
    Not ordaining women and maintaining celibacy have good reasons behind them. I see no problem with that.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Not ordaining women and maintaining celibacy have good reasons behind them. I see no problem with that.
    Care to elaborate?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Care to elaborate?

    Sure. Women do not get ordained for the simple reason that all of Apostles were men. Jesus deliberately only chose men for those roles.

    As for maintaining celibacy, I'm a husband and a father, there's no way I can fully dedicate my life to God. 1st Book of the Corinthians puts it best:
    "I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, gnot to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord."
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Sure. Women do not get ordained for the simple reason that all of Apostles were men. Jesus deliberately only chose men for those roles.
    What about Mary Magdelen? She even had her own gospel until some 4th century Assyrians got rid of it.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    What about Mary Magdelen? She even had her own gospel until some 4th century Assyrians got rid of it.
    It becomes a self-fulfilling argument - they are all men because everything that we choose to view as "authentic" showed they were men. It is merely coincidence that any evidence that points to women having a broader role in the church isn't properly Christian.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    What about Mary Magdelen? She even had her own gospel until some 4th century Assyrians got rid of it.
    She was not an apostle.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    She was not an apostle.
    She was. She isn't now.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    What about Mary Magdelen? She even had her own gospel until some 4th century Assyrians got rid of it.
    Have you read said Gospel? All extant evidence point to Mary of Bethany a.k.a. Mary Magdelene as most likely Jesus "wife", not an Apostle, in the sense of one of his inner "managerial" circle of followers, that does not mean she is not an "Apostle" in the literal sense and indeed the Roman Church describes her as "Apostle to the Apostles" because she brought them the news of the resurrection.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church leaders do not believe in a literal understanding of the Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Have you read said Gospel? All extant evidence point to Mary of Bethany a.k.a. Mary Magdelene as most likely Jesus "wife", not an Apostle, in the sense of one of his inner "managerial" circle of followers, that does not mean she is not an "Apostle" in the literal sense and indeed the Roman Church describes her as "Apostle to the Apostles" because she brought them the news of the resurrection.

    So does that mean that women can be popes but not priests?

    Or is it just another story to pick and choose at like the rest of the Bible?
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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