Legalizing Prostitution in Canada

[Kralizec]

I'm quite aware that prostitution in the Netherlands isn't the best work environment ever, allthough I admit I don't know anything about it except general knowledge. And I join CountArach in not understanding your arguments at all- for starters,

1) why should legalized prostitution be more expensive? It shouldn't be, unless it's seriously overtaxed
2) for those prostitutes operating outside the law, why would they be worse off if they have competition from legal prostitution?

[Fragony]

I'm quite aware that prostitution in the Netherlands isn't the best work environment ever, allthough I admit I don't know anything about it except general knowledge. And I join CountArach in not understanding your arguments at all- for starters,

1) why should legalized prostitution be more expensive? It shouldn't be, unless it's seriously overtaxed
2) for those prostitutes operating outside the law, why would they be worse off if they have competition from legal prostitution?

They have to pay taxes so they are more expensive, state as a pimp it's disgusting.

Take a drive to the Europalaan if you want to see what it really looks like

[CountArach]

They have to pay taxes so they are more expensive, state as a pimp it's disgusting.

I'm not suggesting nationalising prostitution

Frag, if you aren't going to provide any argument or substantiation of your claims then there is no point discussing this with you.

[Fragony]

I'm not suggesting nationalising prostitution

Frag, if you aren't going to provide any argument or substantiation of your claims then there is no point discussing this with you.

Are you a bit daft perhaps? If you tax it it will be more expensive. No?

[CountArach]

Are you a bit daft perhaps? If you tax it it will be more expensive. No?

If it is illegal it will be more expensive. Because you are breaking the law. Which implies risk. It isn't that hard to figure out.

[Fragony]

If it is illegal it will be more expensive. Because you are breaking the law. Which implies risk. It isn't that hard to figure out.

Sorry but I disagree, there is nothing that will see it like that. CAN YOU PLEASE wise up

[Montmorency]

Fragony: are you, by any chance, in favor of legalizing slavery?

[Kralizec]

Having a bad day?

Of course it's a no-brainer that taxing something will add expense. On the other hand, CountArach is also right that illegal activities carry their risks and that, too, inevitably adds expense. Provided that the government puts serious effort into fighting illegal prostitution, pimps and ho's will realize that the risks of avoiding taxes and other regulations outweigh the burdens of respecting them; then the vast majority will abide by the rules. Of course there will always be a niche for the illegal market, the whole point is to keep that niche as small as possible.

[Andres]

Without taking a stance on whether it should be legal or illegal, it should be noted that Fragony may have a point.

Illegal: no regulations whatsoever to respect (not sure if that's a good thing, obviously...);
Legal: you'll need an accountant. Taxes. VAT (do you know how much paperwork VAT takes for an honest business(wo)man? It's insane, at least in Belgium it is, certainly if you're a small one-(wo)man business, it's really hard to deal with it. And if you're alone, hiring somebody to do it for you is very expensive). Taxes. Oh, and taxes. And of course taxes. You'll probably also need some sort of a license, various permits, civil servants and politicians to deal with, probably a few disgruntled neighours who don't agree with a brothel next to them and let's face it, paying a lawyer to defend you in some lawsuit is more expensive then hiring some muscles to make the neighbour shut up. Or just let the annoying neighbour visit your business once a month for free. Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork, because governments have a tendency to give an honest business(wo)man shiploads of paperwork to do, etc etc. Paperwork increases costs. Insurance will be needed as well. Maybe some strict regulations on let's say safety. And we're not even talking about all the paperwork that needs to be done when you hire employees. And social security. Oh yes, that too. So no, making it legal won't make it cheaper for the customer, on the contrary. The government and all its' regulations will be way more expensive then even the most greedy pimp.

I'm also not sure that, given the sphere in which this particular profession takes place, making it legal will improve the working conditions.

By making it legal, you'll be suffocating the honest businessmen and women involved in prostitution.

[CountArach]

Why is price an issue anyway?

I'm also not sure that, given the sphere in which this particular profession takes place, making it legal will improve the working conditions.

Mandatory health checks and such will improve it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm quite aware that prostitution in the Netherlands isn't the best work environment ever, allthough I admit I don't know anything about it except general knowledge. And I join CountArach in not understanding your arguments at all- for starters,

1) why should legalized prostitution be more expensive? It shouldn't be, unless it's seriously overtaxed
2) for those prostitutes operating outside the law, why would they be worse off if they have competition from legal prostitution?

Smoking is legal, but there is still a thriving black market. Prostitutes are either self-employed or they have pimps. My guess is that most of the pretty ones are unready well paid and self employed, their margins go up, they put the prices up, they spend a bit more time at the gym, eat more citrus fruit. The pimps? They beat the whores more because the prices have gone up, or they don't go legal and they suck in formally independant prostitues to their brothals because they can't afford to put their prices up. Don't forget, quite a few women on the game have habits to fund or can't manage to find other work.

What Frag is saying is that legalising it doesn't get rid of the ugle underbelly, it just distracts you from it.

[gaelic cowboy]

Smoking is legal, but there is still a thriving black market.

What Frag is saying is that legalising it doesn't get rid of the ugle underbelly, it just distracts you from it.

But thats cos the government duty is high in order to drive government revenues up.

They say it's to make people give up but I doubt it to be honest, notice how they always seem to ensure it doesnt drive inflation up too much when they rise the price.

[Kralizec]

But thats cos the government duty is high in order to drive government revenues up.

They say it's to make people give up but I doubt it to be honest, notice how they always seem to ensure it doesnt drive inflation up too much when they rise the price.

That's one of the reasons proponents put forward, but I've never heard a politician say it. Our government has never made it a secret that it's a source of income, everything else seems to be afterthought.

Not unlike that Russian minister who encouraged the people to smoke and drink more in order to help the treasury.

[gaelic cowboy]

That's one of the reasons proponents put forward, but I've never heard a politician say it. Our government has never made it a secret that it's a source of income, everything else seems to be afterthought.

Not unlike that Russian minister who encouraged the people to smoke and drink more in order to help the treasury.

We havent put the price of Drink up in a while here cos the industry itself has had to raise prices due to rising commodities, so we can be fairly sure governments are ensuring revenue by not making it conducive to give up drinking.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But thats cos the government duty is high in order to drive government revenues up.

They say it's to make people give up but I doubt it to be honest, notice how they always seem to ensure it doesnt drive inflation up too much when they rise the price.

I think it's because, politically speaking, they have to be seen to be doing something to discourage people. High taxes on cigs are a political win-win viz raising taxes.

I imagine prostitution would be the same.

[HopAlongBunny]

The good news is that it brings at least part of the trade within the law. The people involved in a legitimate exchange of services have recourse to the law; huge step in the right direction.

Will there be illegitimate activity? Yes. The good news is that resources now spent chasing "no harm no foul" types of cases can be re-directed to deal with activity that causes real harm.

As to the "moral" dimension: I believe Christ did not exclude prostitutes from the congregation; should we then exclude them from society and the protection they deserve as citizens?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The good news is that it brings at least part of the trade within the law. The people involved in a legitimate exchange of services have recourse to the law; huge step in the right direction.

Will there be illegitimate activity? Yes. The good news is that resources now spent chasing "no harm no foul" types of cases can be re-directed to deal with activity that causes real harm.

Will that happen though?

Also, you have to ask, after this will girls still be "forced into prostitution" or will they just be "working in poor conditions."

There's a siesmic shift in making such an inherrently seedy and morally ambiguous proffession legal and legitimate - it ceses to be seen as a form of abuse, which is a big part of why it was made illegal to begin with.

[/quote]As to the "moral" dimension: I believe Christ did not exclude prostitutes from the congregation; should we then exclude them from society and the protection they deserve as citizens?[/QUOTE]

He excluded no one who repented - but is line on sexual mores is unremittingly harsh and draconian.

[PanzerJaeger]

There's a siesmic shift in making such an inherrently seedy and morally ambiguous proffession legal and legitimate - it ceses to be seen as a form of abuse, which is a big part of why it was made illegal to begin with.

I think you are conflating prostitution and abuse. The two can be separated, and often are.