Obama and Europe - two of the silliest things ever

[Greyblades]

Keep thinking that.

[Lemur]

Most epic derailed thread ever. Although, given the flimsiness of the OP, I guess that's the best possible outcome.

I like pictures of cats with humorous text superimposed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I like pictures of cats with humorous text superimposed.

By superimposed I take it you mean branded. I believe banquo had his pet cat branded by some sociopathic highschoolers, you better not let him catch you joking about such things.

[PanzerJaeger]

The kenya one is the one I googled:
http://www.opendemocracy.net/david-e...ycling-fantasy

Basically my theory (which makes me sad) is that a great many people move past the high school version of history (which is perfectly fine--because it's for kids) and then go for an equally silly version of history which they don't treat skeptically because "the high school version is so obviously false". I'm thinking of pvc's "the nazi's were pretty horrific, but the allies were no saints" talk, no offense pvc.

There's enough good history books out there. Having a western perspective is a good thing. It's not like self-criticism isn't a feature of western thinking.

@pj:If you take our past as generally good and steadily improving, you naturally reject any radical political views. Thus people with radical political views are strongly motivated to attack the past. They usually attack the present too, and present a glorious future to give something for people to be passionate about. This is why no history written by radicals is worth reading. There's plenty written by regular conservatives and liberals.

This is why it is generally preferable to read the source material before reading critical deconstructions of it. The blog author portrays the high end of an estimate made in the book as an 'assertion'. Elkins made clear in the text that it was indeed only a rough and wide ranging estimate. IIRC, the lower end was ~100,000, but the blog author does not mention that. The problem with any numbers coming out of Kenya at the time is that they rely on notoriously unreliable census data and the very people in question were the most likely to avoid the censuses. Oh, and the British destroyed many of their records before they left. That is why, as Elkins points, the number could be much higher.

Elkins is hardly a radical. She is a historian and professor at Harvard University. As far as I know she has not attacked the present and has not offered a vision for the future. Her book is certainly biased against imperialism, but most histories are biased in some way or another. Some of the best historical revision is born out of such work. The book received some predictable pushback in Britain, but was largely vindicated upon the discovery of troves of hidden government documents on the subject. It is important to view such critiques through the same editorial filter that you apply to the source material.

A Western perspective can be good or bad. It certainly is not without its own blind spots. Most high school students can recite with great confidence that six million Jews died at the hands of Adolf Hitler. How many can name the number of Indians that died at the hands of Winston Churchill in the very same conflict?

I do not understand what you mean by conservative and liberal historians when it comes to this subject.

[gaelic cowboy]

Huh, the way you say it, it sounds like both native irish and indians rebelled because they were too dumb to find those other foods. :P

First off I didnt say what you think I SAID I said there was no proper reason for the famine as there was plenty of food available. Naturally I assumed people understood that the greatest single tragedy to happen in the 19th century Western Europe was not some natural disaster but a result of government policy.

This is why it is so wrong to look at the Indian Famine as benign neglect as I said earlier they lesson had or should have been learned, as a result there can be no excuse for the larger Indian Famines.

And the reason they didnt rebel or find new sources of food is cos they starved to death watching cartloads of food leave there villages literally at gunpoint.

Government policy made the Irish Famine into the single largest natural disater not just in Ireland but in the British Isles and Western Europe in the whole of the 19th century. Lets just think on that for a minute the most powerful country in Europe and by definition the world let people starve to death for want of a crust of bread. (Which was too dear anyway because of interference in the grain market by the corn laws)

Right there with the Corn Laws the claims for the protection of trade by contemporary Governments during the famine are the most hollow babbling of all because the internal market for goods in Ireland was anything but free.








The Famine is the line through which we as a people divide our historical narrative in Ireland, we do not define it by Pre and Post Independence but by Pre Famine and Post Famine.

The famine itself having it's own epoch seeing as it lasted around a decade in parts, Ireland is free today purely because of a bitterness from that event. People literally never talked about it because they felt deep deep shame for having survived, this shame was the reason people seemed at least to Britains eyes to aboutface so quickly politically in the early 20th century.

The reality is that people were haunted by it so much that the dam broke because of the 1916 executions and it litteraly swept your hold on my country away like a gorse fire.








It's not that people dont make Famine jokes I'm sure they do BUT Famine jokes are generally to be avoided because unless your a very very good comedian your attempt at humour will come across as being in poor taste.

[Sarmatian]

Ok, so Obama said that Germany was punching above its weight and than Hitler got angry because Obama said the same thing for Poland and decided to invade Poland, US and the rest of the world which in turn lead to Irish and Indian Famines who then emigrated to Kenya and made Allies look almost as bad as Nazis?

Does this sum up the thread?

Actually, coupled with erotic connotations from the pictures in the OP, that would make for an excellent summer hit in Hollywood.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I like pictures of cats with humorous text superimposed.

WHAT??? What about bacon? Surely you don't like cats more than bacon?

Bacon-haters are the WORST KIND OF EXTREMIST.

I hear that Wendy's sells the Bacon-hater for a reasonable price. Yum.

[gaelic cowboy]

Ok, so Obama said that Germany was punching above its weight and than Hitler got angry because Obama said the same thing for Poland and decided to invade Poland, US and the rest of the world which in turn lead to Irish and Indian Famines who then emigrated to Kenya and made Allies look almost as bad as Nazis?

Does this sum up the thread?

Actually, coupled with erotic connotations from the pictures in the OP, that would make for an excellent summer hit in Hollywood.

It could be a kind of Euro Trip 2 with a bit of Beerfest seasoning for hilarious consequences and major laughs

[InsaneApache]

I wonder if there's any way of working gay marriage into this thread?

[Vuk]

I wonder if there's any way of working gay marriage into this thread?

You just did.

[gaelic cowboy]

I wonder if there's any way of working gay marriage into this thread?

Likely other threads are now suffering from a severe lack of Godwins an Thought Preventing Memes and naturally various other Internet Tropes requires to end a thread.

It's like a blackhole at the center of the galaxy or summit

[Vuk]

To bring this thread back on track:
Here is an article I found on Yahoo. (Yes, I am still in complete shock that they allowed an article like this to be published on Yahoo. It is the first time I have ever seen a conservative, anti-Obama article on Yahoo!)

[drone]

Likely other threads are now suffering from a severe lack of Godwins an Thought Preventing Memes and naturally various other Internet Tropes requires to end a thread.

It's like a blackhole at the center of the galaxy or summit

Won't somebody please think of the children!

[Greyblades]

It's not that people dont make Famine jokes I'm sure they do BUT Famine jokes are generally to be avoided because unless your a very very good comedian your attempt at humour will come across as being in poor taste.

...I wasnt making a famine joke, I was making a joke at how your choice of words resulted in implied unfortunate implications.

It is without doubt one of the largest stains on the empire that both India and Ireland suffered famines when there was absolutely no need for it.
There was no millitary, economic or even a proper agricultural reason for the famine to occur, both places had plenty of other foods available that the people could eat.

See to make the point I think you were making you would have said something along the lines of "but instead of letting the populous eat said foods the british sold them overseas and let the natives starve."
But you didn't, leaving the "plenty of other foods" statement hang, open for interpretation which my first interpritation was that you had said: the natives starved because they didnt know about the foods they could have eaten in thier own homeland.
I found that kinda funny considering how absurd it sounded coming from you, sure I had figured out what you had meant but it seemed like a good chance for levity in this quite morbid thread so I pointed it out.
Unfortunately in the words of the joker: if you have to explain a joke, there is no joke!

[Lemur]

Here is an article I found on Yahoo.

They had me at "like a cornered badger." There's noplace to go from there; perfection has been achieved.

In truth, both conservatives and liberals like to rail at the courts when things don't go their way. Obama is neither the first nor the most bloody-minded.

Seems to me that when a court strikes down a law a politico disagrees with, they're exercising their right and proper Constitutional role. When a court strikes down a law a politico agrees with, they are unelected dictators defying the will of the public. Exemplum gratum:

Republican presidential candidates Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich on Tuesday decried the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals for striking down California's Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage -- both of them targeting the judiciary system for invoking what Gingrich described as a "radical overreach" of power. [...]

Romney, meanwhile, released a statement castigating "unelected judges" for ignoring "the will of the people of California."

"Today, unelected judges cast aside the will of the people of California who voted to protect traditional marriage," Romney said in a statement. "This decision does not end this fight, and I expect it to go to the Supreme Court. That prospect underscores the vital importance of this election and the movement to preserve our values."

Romney emphasized his belief that "marriage is between a man and a woman" and vowed that "as president, I will protect traditional marriage and appoint judges who interpret the Constitution as it is written and not according to their own politics and prejudices."

In other news, water wet, fire hot.

[gaelic cowboy]

Won't somebody please think of the children!

Think we have the all we need now we just need to inculde the internet tubes and were spent.

[CountArach]

To bring this thread back on track:
Here is an article I found on Yahoo. (Yes, I am still in complete shock that they allowed an article like this to be published on Yahoo. It is the first time I have ever seen a conservative, anti-Obama article on Yahoo!)

Article is a strong word, when this is the author:

John Hull was born and raised on the lower south side of Youngstown, Ohio. He is a Christian conservative, married and a father of three.

Formerly a Youngstown police officer, he now has settled into a peaceful life on a small poultry and game bird farm.

His journalistic qualifications are second to none.

[Vuk]

Article is a strong word, when this is the author:

His journalistic qualifications are second to none.

It's an opinion piece. You don't have to be a trained journalist to be a Yahoo contributer.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

His journalistic qualifications are second to none.

If you say so

[CountArach]

It's an opinion piece. You don't have to be a trained journalist to be a Yahoo contributer.

That was apparent.

[Vuk]

That was apparent.

Does that make his opinion any less valid, or what he said any less true? If not, then who cares?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

...I wasnt making a famine joke, I was making a joke at how your choice of words resulted in implied unfortunate implications.


See to make the point I think you were making you would have said something along the lines of "but instead of letting the populous eat said foods the british sold them overseas and let the natives starve."
But you didn't, leaving the "plenty of other foods" statement hang, open for interpretation which my first interpritation was that you had said: the natives starved because they didnt know about the foods they could have eaten in thier own homeland.
I found that kinda funny considering how absurd it sounded coming from you, sure I had figured out what you had meant but it seemed like a good chance for levity in this quite morbid thread so I pointed it out.
Unfortunately in the words of the joker: if you have to explain a joke, there is no joke!

In fairness, I did warn you and you chose not to listen.

[Lemur]

Does that make his opinion any less valid, or what he said any less true? If not, then who cares?

He opened with "like a cornered badger," so I think it's time for him to go pro.

And as I said, it's customary for politicians to scream and yowl when a court rules against them. This is a truth that transcends party and ideology.

The only remarkable thing about this case is that (a) the court hasn't ruled against him yet, and (b) looks like he's positioning the court as a foil for the fall election.

But anyone who wants to proclaim this the end of democracy is free to do so.

[Greyblades]

In fairness, I did warn you and you chose not to listen.

A warning is useless after the fact especially when it is made under a false assumption and unlike some I have learned to face up to my mistakes, not try to hide them. So if you would excuse another mistake PVC, kiss my asphalt.

I await my infraction points with great self satisfaction.

[rvg]

Us British invented the concentration camp during the Boer Wars.

Actually no. The dubious honor of creating the first bona fide concentration camps lies with the good ole Rebs from the days of the U.S. Civil War. They ran some camps in Georgia with a kind of diet for the inmates that would make Auschwitz look like Holiday Inn.

[Greyblades]

And ever since the serving of macdonalds fries in POW camps been classified as a warcrime.

[Vuk]

Actually no. The dubious honor of creating the first bona fide concentration camps lies with the good ole Rebs from the days of the U.S. Civil War. They ran some camps in Georgia with a kind of diet for the inmates that would make Auschwitz look like Holiday Inn.

Actually, the Spanish set up the first true concentration camps in modern times during the Spanish-Cuban-American War.

[Lemur]

The dubious honor of creating the first bona fide concentration camps lies with the good ole Rebs from the days of the U.S. Civil War.

I believe you're referencing Andersonville. (Warning, at least one image is incredibly grisly.)

Although Andersonville was hardly the first time prisoners of war were systematically starved to death.

[rvg]

Actually, the Spanish set up the first true concentration camps in modern times during the Spanish-Cuban-American War.

No, rebel camps predate that by about 30 years.

I believe you're referencing Andersonville. (Warning, at least one image is incredibly grisly.)

Although Andersonville was hardly the first time prisoners of war were systematically starved to death.

That's it.

[Vuk]

No, rebel camps predate that by about 30 years.




That's it.

A prisoner of war camp is not the same thing as a concentration or re-concentration camp though. People being treated poorly or starved in POW camps happened nearly everywhere in the world where there was warfare.