Merkel Is Getting Me All Hot And Bothered

[gaelic cowboy]

In my experience you support the national team of whatever nation you identify with even if they are rubbish. I should know, I'm Scottish.

Exactly Rhy

The original question was faulty anyway because you dont pick your team you inherit it

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

In my experience you support the national team of whatever nation you identify with even if they are rubbish. I should know, I'm Scottish.

Yes, but yours are a beligerant people, and not everyone has only one identity

Even better then. The question becomes: can we find Konrad and Franz?

Counter question: If he's called Johan, does that make him Yiddish?

[Hax]

It's a fershlugginer question. What are you, meshuggina​?

[rvg]

Counter question: If he's called Johan, does that make him Yiddish?

No, it'll make him German.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Excessive modern tribalism over sports teams is a disfunction leading to all sorts of mental issues.

Omg, thank you. I just tell people I am an Oakland Raiders fan because every sports argument with my friends turns into a "ur just a **** bandwagoner." No one can accuse me of hopping on any bandwagon now.

[gaelic cowboy]

Omg, thank you. I just tell people I am an Oakland Raiders fan because every sports argument with my friends turns into a "ur just a **** bandwagoner." No one can accuse me of hopping on any bandwagon now.

but but being on the wagon is where all the cool people are at yes/no and there is a band on it too hey look it's going somewhere.

[Kagemusha]

First the Englishman insults the Kebab, which is heretic beyond pardon as it is. Next he starts talking about switching teams! Are there any limits for this madness?!

[Husar]

I guess I'm not a real German then because I often root for the dutch team when they play against Germany.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I guess I'm not a real German then because I often root for the dutch team when they play against Germany.

Well, but think of all the dysfunctional mental issues you've avoided by doing so!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

First the Englishman insults the Kebab, which is heretic beyond pardon as it is. Next he starts talking about switching teams! Are there any limits for this madness?!

Oh calm down, it's only football, not cricket or Rugger.

You're thinking of the other Englishman.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Yes, but yours are a beligerant people, and not everyone has only one identity

Most Scottish people say they feel at least "partly British", yet just support the Scottish team. Of course the thing is there isn't a British team. But there will be at the Olympics. Not that anybody cares about them though. I'm being serious, I've never known anybody to follow the Olympics at all.

But I think you'll find that the Scottish example in this case is more the norm. Outside the little bubble of polite middle-class England people in general tend to be beligerant and intolerant.

And although horribly off-topic, do you identify with Cornwall nationalism? I was amazed to hear you have the "Cornwall National Liberation Army" and previously the An Gof. I read one of their statements somewhere and presumed it was a spoof on the INLA, but apparently they really exist.

[Sarmatian]

I guess I'm not a real German then because I often root for the dutch team when they play against Germany.

Blasphemy!!!

After a... well, forever, we have a German team that's actually likeable in addition to being good and you say THAT?

You sir, are an insult, to the German nation and the sport of football and Mario Goetze.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And although horribly off-topic, do you identify with Cornwall nationalism? I was amazed to hear you have the "Cornwall National Liberation Army" and previously the An Gof. I read one of their statements somewhere and presumed it was a spoof on the INLA, but apparently they really exist.

I'm not Cornish, I'm part Welsh. What I know is that the Cornish language died out and there have been recent efforts to rivive it, with mixed results, that Cornish nationalism is inherrently racist (membership of certain Cornish pressure groups requires x number of Cornish ancestors) and that most of the calls for independence are based on a misunderstanding of what the "Stannery" Parliament was for.

I also note that the Cornish word for Cornwall is "Kernow" rather than "Cernou" which somewhat diminishes tha argument for continuity (the Welsh is "Cernu", compare with "Cymru" for "Wales".

As far as Scottish football goes, just consider that when England play the opposing shirt is automatically stocked and often sells out, if Scotland have already been eliminated from the Tournament.

Which proves both that Scots will support of teams when it suits them, and that not supporting England has more to do with Anglo-Scottish relations than football.

[rvg]

I'm not Cornish, I'm part Welsh. What I know is that the Cornish language died out and there have been recent efforts to rivive it, with mixed results, that Cornish nationalism is inherrently racist (membership of certain Cornish pressure groups requires x number of Cornish ancestors).

Interesting. I wonder how does Cornish culture stand apart from English culture. With their language not being used and all, what does make one Cornish, is it last names or something? On a related note WTF is going on with this independence epidemic in Britain? Is it a new phenomenon?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm not Cornish, I'm part Welsh. What I know is that the Cornish language died out and there have been recent efforts to rivive it, with mixed results, that Cornish nationalism is inherrently racist (membership of certain Cornish pressure groups requires x number of Cornish ancestors) and that most of the calls for independence are based on a misunderstanding of what the "Stannery" Parliament was for.

I also note that the Cornish word for Cornwall is "Kernow" rather than "Cernou" which somewhat diminishes tha argument for continuity (the Welsh is "Cernu", compare with "Cymru" for "Wales".

Well that is surprising, usually the nationalisms of the smaller Celtic fringe places tends to be more civic-orientated and left-leaning, and certainly not racist. You do live in Cornwall, right?

As far as Scottish football goes, just consider that when England play the opposing shirt is automatically stocked and often sells out, if Scotland have already been eliminated from the Tournament.

Which proves both that Scots will support of teams when it suits them, and that not supporting England has more to do with Anglo-Scottish relations than football.

On the other hand, they sell England tops at Ibrox and a lot of Rangers fans like to wear them, to the dismay of everyone else.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Interesting. I wonder how does Cornish culture stand apart from English culture. With their language not being used and all, what does make one Cornish, is it last names or something? On a related note WTF is going on with this independence epidemic in Britain? Is it a new phenomenon?

Look at the Troubles in Ireland, very few Catholics could speak any degree of Irish Gaelic.

This trend towards separatism and devolution to the regions is a trend across all of Europe.

[rvg]

This trend towards separatism and devolution to the regions is a trend across all of Europe.

Oh, I can see that. What I fail to see is logic behind that, at least when it comes to Western Europe.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Interesting. I wonder how does Cornish culture stand apart from English culture. With their language not being used and all, what does make one Cornish, is it last names or something? On a related note WTF is going on with this independence epidemic in Britain? Is it a new phenomenon?

Is it a new phenomonen? No.

Partly, it has to do with the expansion of the franchise, accross Europe the old Elite had more in common with each other than the people they rules - and those people often had nothing in commen at all. Boradly, the Celts HATE, and I mean that, the English. It's pure and naked racism, a Welshman/Scotsman/Irishman, which actually say to your face, "I hate the English, but you're alright" just the same as "I hate balcks, but you're alright." The reality is that the "English" don't really exist, IA and I have less in commen probably than I have with the Welsh and he with the Scots, but there are 50 million "English" and the "Celtic Fringe" together make only 10 million, so "Englishness" tends to dominate through sheer numbers.

As to how English culture and Cornish culture differ, that depends, between Devon, Cornwall and Somerset there's much of muchness at first glance, but the Cornish dialect a varient on the West Saxon spoken on the other side of the border which contains more Cornish remnants, but the major difference is that the Cornish are primarily miners and sheep herders, with some milk cows, whilst in Devon we primarily produce beef, lamb, corn, oats, and apples.

That may not sound like a difference to you, but it affects our civil institutions, such as the "Stannery" Parliament in Cornwall created to air the views of Cornish Tin Miners.

Well that is surprising, usually the nationalisms of the smaller Celtic fringe places tends to be more civic-orientated and left-leaning, and certainly not racist. You do live in Cornwall, right?

They're still left-wingish but there is a far more overtyl geneticist view of "Cornishness" because of the blurry of the line between Devon and Cornwall, and I actually live on the English side of the border.

On the other hand, they sell England tops at Ibrox and a lot of Rangers fans like to wear them, to the dismay of everyone else.

Exception that proves the rule?

Oh, I can see that. What I fail to see is logic behind that, at least when it comes to Western Europe.

Pan-Europeanism seeks to dismantle the Nation-State so we can all live together in Peace and Harmony, wht we are beggining to see though is that the Nation State held together lots of belligerant regional or ethnic fiefdoms. Rhy mentioned the IRA, but what is almost never mention are the analogous Welsh and Cornish terrorists, mostly because they only destroyed property and not people.

Also, grudges are nursed over centuries here, the Scottish National Party's referendum on independance will be held on the 700th Anniversary of Bannockburn (the bit at the end of Braveheart).

[rvg]

Partly, it has to do with the expansion of the franchise, accross Europe the old Elite had more in common with each other than the people they rules - and those people often had nothing in commen at all. Boradly, the Celts HATE, and I mean that, the English. It's pure and naked racism, a Welshman/Scotsman/Irishman, which actually say to your face, "I hate the English, but you're alright" just the same as "I hate balcks, but you're alright."

Oy carramba, this is childish. Do they even know why they hate the English?

As to how English culture and Cornish culture differ, that depends, between Devon, Cornwall and Somerset there's much of muchness at first glance, but the Cornish dialect a varient on the West Saxon spoken on the other side of the border which contains more Cornish remnants, but the major difference is that the Cornish are primarily miners and sheep herders, with some milk cows, whilst in Devon we primarily produce beef, lamb, corn, oats, and apples.

Okay, but how does being part of England impede their daily lives?

That may not sound like a difference to you, but it affects our civil institutions, such as the "Stannery" Parliament in Cornwall created to air the views of Cornish Tin Miners.

You're right, it doesn't.

Pan-Europeanism seeks to dismantle the Nation-State so we can all live together in Peace and Harmony, wht we are beggining to see though is that the Nation State held together lots of belligerant regional or ethnic fiefdoms. Rhy mentioned the IRA, but what is almost never mention are the analogous Welsh and Cornish terrorists, mostly because they only destroyed property and not people.

This is one thing that has always puzzled me about the Old World: they nurture these centuries old hatreds as if those hatreds were backed by practical reasons, while in reality of course these are just tantrums that have absolutely no place in the 3rd millenium.

Also, grudges are nursed over centuries here, the Scottish National Party's referendum on independance will be held on the 700th Anniversary of Bannockburn (the bit at the end of Braveheart).

Yes, I remember, it went something like this: "and so, in the year 1314 the Scottish army, starving and outnumbered faced off against the English crown in a final battle, but we do not have the budget to show it. The End."

[Husar]

Blasphemy!!!

After a... well, forever, we have a German team that's actually likeable in addition to being good and you say THAT?

You sir, are an insult, to the German nation and the sport of football and Mario Goetze.

That's why I was rooting for both during the last world cup.
I'm still an insult to the sport of football though because I hardly care about it.

Which probably makes me even less of a proper german.

But then what am I? I was born in german, hold a german passport, german is my native language etc.
Yet I do not qualify for holding the most precious of german cultural traits!
Except for being overly correct perhaps.

[gaelic cowboy]

@PVC Well seeing as we are a seperate nation were dam well allowed to root for the other guy did Arsenal fans cheer Man U in the champions league.
I always root for the other team when England are playing it's what we do I suppose it's because of who my family were and what they believed.







However England have a poor history of preperation for finals and there record is not stellar, naturally when having to watch a lot of British tellevision this fact is overlooked and if your not part of the english tribe then it becomes a point of ridicule. So people feel there supporting the little guy even if it's Brazil but then most everyone likes Brazil.

Essentially it is a way to innoculate the populace from violence at least in Ireland ye know tiny bit of disease to immunise you.

[gaelic cowboy]

Look at the Troubles in Ireland, very few Catholics could speak any degree of Irish Gaelic.

This trend towards separatism and devolution to the regions is a trend across all of Europe.

The separitism trend is to an extent aping the separtism and secularising trend of earlier times in Europe in places like France, Hungary and the Czech Republic. These places had movements of Protestants joining forces with more moderate elements in Catholism the outcome and driving forces were different in each of the cases.

Essentially in Scotland I detect a simmilar dynamic though the need for secularisation is not the driving force here obviously. If I had to guess I would say the Protesstant/Unionist/Loyalist community is arguing amongst itself about the future(not neccessarily indpendence) and people outside that dynamic be they Catholics, immigrants or otherwise are allying with non-unionists.

[Greyblades]

Bah! Football stopped being fun to watch back when there was still around 80 a side, weapons were commonplace, and fatalities were merely a way of keeping score.

[gaelic cowboy]

Bah! Football stopped being fun to watch back when there was still around 80 a side, weapons were commonplace, and fatalities were merely a way of keeping score.

Problem solved.

Weapons included and 15 a side team game Jackie Tyrrell Big Hits Collection (for some reason it's overly bright for about ten seconds)



THE BIGGEST HITS IN GAA 1

an it goes all the way up to 16

THE BIGGEST HITS IN GAA 16

[Greyblades]

Ach its not the same, no sport is fun to watch without the liberal application of mob violence!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oy carramba, this is childish. Do they even know why they hate the English?

Mostly because we created England, and then we made the remaining Celts speak English instead of their native language, see the demise of the Cornish language. In the case of the Cornish though, to a certain extent they are aping the Welsh. However, see below as well.

Okay, but how does being part of England impede their daily lives?

For the Cornish? Not much at all, not practically. To an extent though their lives are impeded by Westminster Centralism, the Cornish lobby sees this as "English vs Cornish" when in fact people in Devon have all the same problems.

You're right, it doesn't.

Except that the price of lamb remained static as £10 a head for 20 years and all the mines closed. Cornwall's economy relied on tin, but the mines are no longer profitable, so the county relies on Tourism but is still basically held up by central government funding, much like Alaska in the US it is incapable of self sufficiency.

At the same time, cultural regions in Europe are much smaller than the US, if you live in a particular place you can tell the difference between someone who lives 20 miles away and someone who lives 40, certainly you should be able to tell the next county over. As the child of parents who moved in from three counties over I am sometimes considered "foriegn" here in Devon, though that has to do with the difficulty of assimilating as much as actual prejudice.

This is one thing that has always puzzled me about the Old World: they nurture these centuries old hatreds as if those hatreds were backed by practical reasons, while in reality of course these are just tantrums that have absolutely no place in the 3rd millenium.

Is it really so puzzling though? It isn't everyone, and the US has similar cultural ticks focused on Europe. You also have the Southern attitude to "Yankies" and Lincoln, I don't expect that will change any time soon.

Yes, I remember, it went something like this: "and so, in the year 1314 the Scottish army, starving and outnumbered faced off against the English crown in a final battle, but we do not have the budget to show it. The End."

You'll note Mel hates the English too, he also made "The Patriot".

@PVC Well seeing as we are a seperate nation were dam well allowed to root for the other guy did Arsenal fans cheer Man U in the champions league.
I always root for the other team when England are playing it's what we do I suppose it's because of who my family were and what they believed.

However England have a poor history of preperation for finals and there record is not stellar, naturally when having to watch a lot of British tellevision this fact is overlooked and if your not part of the english tribe then it becomes a point of ridicule. So people feel there supporting the little guy even if it's Brazil but then most everyone likes Brazil.
Essentially it is a way to innoculate the populace from violence at least in Ireland ye know tiny bit of disease to immunise you.

Right....

but this can still lead to absurdities like the Irish supporting SA against England or a team from a country I have never heard of, rather than the people just over the way who are some of your closest kin.

[gaelic cowboy]

Right....

but this can still lead to absurdities like the Irish supporting SA against England or a team from a country I have never heard of, rather than the people just over the way who are some of your closest kin.

Absurdities??? eh I dont understand the question PVC I like the english people to be honest ..............................................................................but obviously I want to see the defeated in things like war and sport


I see it as just part of the natural order of things, you will get the odd Irish person who might keep an eye out for England but to be honest it's not the dominant view. Really it's about how we view ourselves in relation to England and how each region defines itself simply put supporting the other team is an easy way to announce to the world "Not English"

Also of all the regions I think were due a few sneaky shouts 1169-1921 is a long time, of course some people argue it should read 1169-present but I think were going beyond that now.

But sure never know England could meet France in Poland/Ukraine I promise to NOT cheer for France

[rvg]

Is it really so puzzling though? It isn't everyone, and the US has similar cultural ticks focused on Europe. You also have the Southern attitude to "Yankies" and Lincoln, I don't expect that will change any time soon.

No, not even close. Civil War was fought over ideology, not ethnic strife. While the South does have its distinct cuisine, culture and manner of speech, they still consider themselves American, moreso in fact than some liberals in Massachusetts or California. The ones I've met at least, and I've met many. As for ethnicity in general, it means nothing here. Race still matters, but ethnicity does not.

[Husar]

Oh hey, there's a new, relevant Amnesty International report.

Turns out that freedom of religion, often touted as one of the pillars of our cultural superiority, only applies to Catholics and Protestants or so.
In our strife to stay better than the Muslims who don't allow Christians any freedoms in their countries, we are becoming more and more like them.

Is that the way forward or a step backwards?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Absurdities??? eh I dont understand the question PVC I like the english people to be honest ..............................................................................but obviously I want to see the defeated in things like war and sport


I see it as just part of the natural order of things, you will get the odd Irish person who might keep an eye out for England but to be honest it's not the dominant view. Really it's about how we view ourselves in relation to England and how each region defines itself simply put supporting the other team is an easy way to announce to the world "Not English"

Also of all the regions I think were due a few sneaky shouts 1169-1921 is a long time, of course some people argue it should read 1169-present but I think were going beyond that now.

But sure never know England could meet France in Poland/Ukraine I promise to NOT cheer for France

Right, so it's about anti-Englishness, friendly or otherwise it amounts to the same thing. The idea that the most important thing is to not be seen as English, to differentiage oneself.

Meanwhile, the average poor bloody Englishman is wondering what he or his ancestors ever did to the Irish or the Welsh that the Irish or Welsh didn't do to him at the behest of the same Norman magnates - if he thinks about it at all.

No, not even close. Civil War was fought over ideology, not ethnic strife. While the South does have its distinct cuisine, culture and manner of speech, they still consider themselves American, moreso in fact than some liberals in Massachusetts or California. The ones I've met at least, and I've met many. As for ethnicity in general, it means nothing here. Race still matters, but ethnicity does not.

Are you sure?

The Civil War was fought primarily over the issue of centre vs regionalism. The Southerners were regionalists more than slave-owners, what they resented was Washington's diktats. You'll note that Rhy has said that most Scots view themselves as "partly British" despite the prevelence of anti-English feeling North of the border.

We need a Southerner here to answer this question.

Also, I think you are somewhat confused about how "ethnicity" and "race" work in Europe - very differently to in the Americas. For starters, we don't subscribe to the "one drop" mentality.