ORG, TWC, and the Official Forum - what would the ORG specialize in?

[Secura]

honestly, and to be very blunt, some of things that can make you get infracted by overly leftist moderators here are perfectly fine on TWC, for example is name calling some of those abominable lewd behaviours

We do not and will not condone bullying at the Org, and name-calling is a form of that. Personal attacks are not appropriate, regardless of your opinions/feelings of that person; if you don't like them, there's an Ignore feature.

I am willing to embrace a great deal of change if the community wants it (be it forum appearance/structure, content, staff behaviour/rules, whatever), but bullying is one thing I truly stand against and won't budge over.

and ORG is the only place you can get infracted by just being "unfriendly" to certain idiot member.... ckckck

I'm more than willing to discuss these infractions with you at your discretion.

[Andres]

I agree with Secura that we can't allow bullying. That said, perhaps Cute Wolf's point has merit. It's not always easy to draw the line; moderating has never been exact science. Is two members getting a bit "rougher" against each other immediately a problem? Should we wait longer before stepping in, in the hopes members will simply work it out for themselves. I've seen it happening on a few occasions; stumbling upon a thread with a post that made me cringe, but no moderator intervention. Then a page further, you see members moderated themselves and get along just fine again. Such threads warm my heart.

What about off topic posts and frivolous spam? Should staff act against that or should we allow more "forum chemistry". After all, the idea of this place is to have fun and threads full of good old fashioned completely nonsensic spam posts are usually the most funny threads. I can understand there's a difference between the Guides fora, where people look for specific information and where spam is really annoying, but maybe we should be more relaxed in other areas? Just me spouting random thoughts here. How does the membership feel? As I said, we need to be open for everything. Can I hear some thoughts on this, please?

[a completely inoffensive name]

I agree with Secura that we can't allow bullying. That said, perhaps Cute Wolf's point has merit. It's not always easy to draw the line; moderating has never been exact science. Is two members getting a bit "rougher" against each other immediately a problem? Should we wait longer before stepping in, in the hopes members will simply work it out for themselves. I've seen it happening on a few occasions; stumbling upon a thread with a post that made me cringe, but no moderator intervention. Then a page further, you see members moderated themselves and get along just fine again. Such threads warm my heart.

What about off topic posts and frivolous spam? Should staff act against that or should we allow more "forum chemistry". After all, the idea of this place is to have fun and threads full of good old fashioned completely nonsensic spam posts are usually the most funny threads. I can understand there's a difference between the Guides fora, where people look for specific information and where spam is really annoying, but maybe we should be more relaxed in other areas? Just me spouting random thoughts here. How does the membership feel? As I said, we need to be open for everything. Can I hear some thoughts on this, please?

I think the moderators should just admit that the most exhilarating and interesting period was when me and the rest of the tavern was being super active and spammy. There was something happening every day.

[johnhughthom]

I think the moderators should just admit that the most exhilarating and interesting period was when me and the rest of the tavern was being super active and spammy. There was something happening every day.

Or you could admit that just because you found it interesting and exhilarating does not mean others did. I found the EB Tavern, and the associated posting from the time, pretty juvenile and embarrassing to be honest.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Or you could admit that just because you found it interesting and exhilarating does not mean others did. I found the EB Tavern, and the associated posting from the time, pretty juvenile and embarrassing to be honest.

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

Or maybe YOU could admit that his admission would not be admissible!

[Andres]

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

You're being lazy

I value your opinion ACIN. I'm interested to hear your opinion about the rules, current style of moderation and other aspects and what you think should change. I want your input and ideas, so stop being lazy by limiting yourself to one liners that come down to complaining about the past. Let your brains work and spout brilliant ideas

@Axalon, I appreciate your bluntness, I'll address your post later on, bit limited on time right now.

[johnhughthom]

Or you could admit that you can't recognize facetiousness.

Indeed, I have never made a facetious post myself. I wouldn't recognise a facetious post if it came up to me and called me an offensive name.

[Axalon]

I'll post my actual ideas later on... In the mean time, some comments of my own to various stuff...

The org is based around what TW was 8-10 years ago and it catered to people that played the then TW games

In short, I think this is BS... A quick look at the ORG-news coverage over past 6 months and I got all I need to dismiss that statement all the way back to the stone age.

That my own humble modding effort for MTW was voted mod of the year here is embarassing to say the least.

You said it, but I agree. It is embarrassing, and that in more ways then one. It can't get much worse then as is. Then again you did not protest at all, you were just fine with all that, or so you said at the time. The only thing you protested against was the fact that I had the "indecency" to protest against the whole damn thing and refused to participate because of general principles. Bunching up TW-engines, the total apathy to scale, traits and circumstances, general practice etc. etc. Nope, you were clearly fine with all that, thus you don't get to also say that it was embarrassing as well. Your actions and words here strikes me as that of an unbothered hypocrite. That certainly deserves to be pointed out. And this is not the first time either, now is it? That's why I have such a hard time condoning it, like others do. At least I will greet it with scorn.

You don't need only veteran minded people that are more mature here. Froggy guides won't get you new people in. You need the younger lads and ladies that play newer TW as well

I certainly agree with that. This place needs all people interested in TW it can get, as it is, and this regardless the game. The game, age and gender are actually irrelevant, the interest in TW is not. If that happens to be RTW or MTW1, so be it. Same thing applies to ETW and STW2.

- and without people that play the games there isn't anything to discuss,

True... Without people that post either - there is nothing to discuss in the first place. People must post in order for a discussion to be possible at all... I know this first hand.

As for becoming TWC copycats, its too late to worry about that - the org has already copied TWC policies/means and devices.

I think there is some truth to that... Then again, does it matter?

...

Precisely. One simple "Thank you!" can mean a lot - there's a reason why it's considered a vital part of polite conversation out in the real world. Too often people's efforts go unrecognised, people don't take the time to post some thanks. The button system was supposed to help counter this by making it possible for people to show appreciation without feeling like spammers.

I can certainly see your point and I agree totally, it could be a very useful and effective tool. Assuming that it will not be overused and lose all meaning... Like the stars on threads.... It has ended up in 5 stars or no stars and usually completely arbitrary, or so I believe. As I understand it, this star-stuff is strictly a staff-thing/option, so I guess you guys are to blame for all that.... :)

It's hardly a disaster somehow, but I do think that the use and practice of the stars can be improved somehow. As it is now it has basically lost all meaning, it's fluff, to me at least. I wonder, is it even possible to remove the stars completely from a thread? I would actually be intersted in getting a solid answer on that.

That one died a slow death due to lack of interest amongst those we hoped would use it.

So, put it in stasis then... Things might just change some day...

- A

[Axalon]

And another post...

It's not always easy to draw the line; moderating has never been exact science.

True.... However that does not mean that it can't be, or at least should strive for being more "exacter", now does it? I think it should at least try to be... Right or wrong there is much at the ORG that strikes me as arbitrary and I can't say that I think that is a good thing on general terms. I would say that it is a bad thing actually... This goes for moderation as well. I think the TWC, which far from perfect somehow, has managed that problem better on general terms. And, at least they have it more specified - this openly and publicly - and that strikes me as a much better solution. The ORG could very well learn a thing or two by that, or so I believe. I am open to hear out the arguments against it - if there actually are any?

What about off topic posts and frivolous spam? Should staff act against that or should we allow more "forum chemistry". After all, the idea of this place is to have fun and threads full of good old fashioned completely nonsensic spam posts are usually the most funny threads. I can understand there's a difference between the Guides fora, where people look for specific information and where spam is really annoying, but maybe we should be more relaxed in other areas? Just me spouting random thoughts here. How does the membership feel? As I said, we need to be open for everything. Can I hear some thoughts on this, please?

Personally, I say kill it and do us all a favour, at least in the TW-sections. To me it is just annoying and gets in the way. Prejudice or not, I think the ORG is too lax on this stuff in general and could certainly try to change (for the better). The TWC seems to have gotten worse as well I think, that's the impression I get anyhow...

If it addresses the topic somehow by all means go right ahead and joke - but - address the topic at hand and most of this kind of crap fails to do that and that's why it is extra annoying. Maybe I have been just unlucky in my experiences on these boards. I'll say this much anyways - it is usually the same members that does it - over and over again and usually in others threads. Personally, I think that can so easily become arrogant and rude, showing disrespect for a topic that somebody else is interested in, enough to start a thread about it. If I want to know about matter X, I don't want to go thru all that crap and I find it hard to believe that I am the only one that thinks that.

Our currency here is information, not jokes and spam. Or so I would like to believe. At least I come here for information or to provide information and so, I am very fond of sticking to the topic in general. I have also noticed that some people have problems determining what is actually relevant or even lack the capacity to recognize that the question has already been answered by somebody else. What do they do? They answer it all over again - as if the previous answer never existed... That just rude and annoying... As if the answer only get valid when they have delivered it.... I have a very hard time accepting that and quite frankly I have little regard for it. Again, certain members excel in that routine as well - and they have earned my thorough dislike because of it. If you got nothing to add - then don't post.

If people spam and joke in the tavern, I have no problem with that as that whole area is essentially about spam and nonsense anyways (that's my experience at least). In a TW-thread that also deals with TW somehow (not even that is a certainty here), it's just annoying and topicality should be enforced because that might actually be something used for future reference some day. Because of that, I do advocate the enforcement of topicality and just delete the personal chatter. I simply don't care about some internal jokes or whatever crap people cook up. This is a public space, not a personal one and some people seem to have forgotten that. In some cases it seems like they are just fishing for attention somehow - that's just annoying. Especially since they are usually not worthy of any attention to begin with, for me anyways...

Maybe I am just overly harsh and Spartan like - it is possible. Anyways, I'm sure there are people that will disagree with all this. Well, just speaking my mind here as well.

- A

[frogbeastegg]

I can certainly see your point and I agree totally, it could be a very useful and effective tool. Assuming that it will not be overused and lose all meaning... Like the stars on threads.... It has ended up in 5 stars or no stars and usually completely arbitrary, or so I believe. As I understand it, this star-stuff is strictly a staff-thing/option, so I guess you guys are to blame for all that.... :)

Staff normally use the tool to draw attention to the thread they feel is noteworthy in some way. One person's opinion of what's notable is not always another's, and at the moment there's no way for that second opinion to change the thread's average rating. Since we want to encourage people to post, staff are not likely to mark topics down. That would be giving them an official "Boring!" sign, one step away from closing them as spam. At least a closed topic gets a note from the person responsible, making it less ... callous. A public system wouldn't have quite the same sting to it.

The system may or may not work. We'd need to see how people react to it. If people started spamming 5 or 1 star ratings on everything the feature would be disabled again.

I wonder, is it even possible to remove the stars completely from a thread? I would actually be intersted in getting a solid answer on that.

Possible, yes. Easy, no. It needs to be changed manually on a per-thread basis. Only admin can do that.

So, put it in stasis then... Things might just change some day...

It's in with our other zombie ideas, shambling about and wailing "Braaaaaains!" whilst it waits for the day when it can return.

[Axalon]

Alright Andres, I'll reply to your post in bit and pieces over multiple posts and work my self down on it whenever I might have some comments for it. So, first up...

About treating all games and their communities equal. Each and every single TW game has their own subfora already.

That is not true... CA's NTW has no own section/sub-fora at the ORG (whatever you want to call it). It is all bunched up with ETW. If NTW had it's own section, your claim would be true. As it has not, your claim falls apart.

Personally, I don't give a flying rats ass about NTW - never even bothered with it. However, I can look beyond myself and at the bigger picture here - and then it certainly does have a strong symbolical importance. If all ALL released TW-PC-games were to have each a section as per game. The ORG will then at least have a rhetorical ace that no other fan-forum can counter or compete with. "We seriously deal with all TW, not just with some TW". Namely, "one game, one section - we treat every game seriously enough to have that".... Get my drift? If you ask me, it's worthwhile to do it just to be able to say that - and it might even convince some NTW-fan or two to sign up here as well - and I fail to see the harm in that. You could use the same personnel as now, if that works fine as it is? Their responsibilities would probably be the about the same even if it in a strictly formal sense it would be "doubled" due to another TW-section.

Personally, I always valued the ORG due to its egalitarian tendencies towards TW, to me that is a major strength of this place - as no such tendencies are truly found and practiced elsewhere (so far, that can change as well). ALL other fan sites bunches games together somehow or possibly fail to address some game(s) completely. Its a classic and standard mistake and I fail to see any good reason why the ORG should do it as well... And yet again lose another possible edge to other sites. Why?

Because the games are older, there's less activity, less members.

I agree. However a heavier focus on mods may very well slow that process down significantly - hell even reverse it somewhat. It has happened before (in other games), and I think it can again - if we work on it. MTW2 is still the biggest TW over at the TWC and its hardly because the original game is exceptional somehow - it's because of the mods for it. I do suggest that we should at least try to consider ways to retain and activate the remaining existing "regular" members of section X. Instead of just leaving it be. I think it is at least worth to consider, not just passively stand by and let it fade away - staff included, because this is not solely the members responsibility - it is the staffs as well. I think TinCow is right, in the way that a few regular posts here and there on your "fave game" could do "plenty of bang" in relation to the actual effort. I think it is well worth a try, I mean what do we have to lose by trying it? About zero it seems?

The resources are here for everybody. But except for the EB fora, where there are regular screenshot contests and other activities, there aren't many people around asking for our resources.

Oh... That does set things in a different light, doesn't it? Well, at least we should try to consider ways to change that reality, no? I'll be happy to use some resources, I'll just have to find ways in which it is warranted to do so.


As for the branches of staff...

I have no objections to that outlined model, it looks good in general. My gripe is basically that the content-branch don't seem to operate beyond STW2 (do they at all?) - which I believe they should. There are 5-6(?) of these guys and I have yet to see them post or show any sort of presence in the MTW1 section for instance (this since the branch was set up). They should search for news, content and stuff in every TW-section to promote, and I can pretty much guarantee that they will be able to find something somewhere because of it. The one-sided focus on STW2 does not cut it. It is a poor implementation of an otherwise good idea, the practice should be changed as to include ALL TW and what goes on here and not just for STW2. That's, essentially my criticism here.

I'll use my own stuff as an example to prove my point. Now, I seriously doubt that had I not posted up my notes on the front-page myself - the content-branch would have missed it completely that I had a major release in April 2012. I mean, this is a grand-scale mod - some 7000+ files strong (this in total, the mod as such is about 6800 files, latest version). Hell even the folks over at the TWC realize that such stuff is news and so that stuff has been reported on - several times - in their publications over the years and it will probably be so again some day, over there. That's the TWC... The place that usually don't give a damn about MTW1 or STW1 essentially... Here, at the ORG however, no such thing has ever been attempted - even once - this since the content-branch was first created and I have now had 4 major releases since then. So, is it fair to say that the content-branch could do a better job? I think it is very reasonable to say so... Because if they are able to miss something like that - god knows what else they have missed around here that is not STW2. Get my drift?

As I understand things, it should not have been me that posted the existing notes on my stuff, it should have been them... I mean, it certainly strikes me as something that falls under aspect of, and I quote "maintain and promote content". Or did I get that declaration completely wrong somehow?

The ORG needs to take better care of the mods and stuff it actually has and make sure that the people that really do provide actual "content" here on their own (modders etc.) can feel recognized and supported here by staff. Not by some pretty words, but by active and regular action, hell even a post or two to show for it (not just to the modders, but to the rest of the world as well).... If you pull that off and do it seriously - and regularly - then you will eventually have more modders that feels it might just be worthwhile to start operate here and that will clearly work beneficial for the site. More modders and mods = more traffic. Just saying...

I'll do more comments later on...

- A

[Axalon]

As for post: 149-151....

If people want to question or disagree with my post:148 , at least read it (properly) first. After having done that, you can disagree with everything in it as much as you want. Preferably, by providing some solid reasons for it.

- A

[Peasant Phill]

...As for the branches of staff...

I have no objections to that outlined model, it looks good in general. My gripe is basically that the content-branch don't seem to operate beyond STW2 (do they at all?) - which I believe they should. There are 5-6(?) of these guys and I have yet to see them post or show any sort of presence in the MTW1 section for instance (this since the branch was set up). They should search for news, content and stuff in every TW-section to promote, and I can pretty much guarantee that they will be able to find something somewhere because of it. The one-sided focus on STW2 does not cut it. It is a poor implementation of an otherwise good idea, the practice should be changed as to include ALL TW and what goes on here and not just for STW2. That's, essentially my criticism here.

I'll use my own stuff as an example to prove my point. Now, I seriously doubt that had I not posted up my notes on the front-page myself - the content-branch would have missed it completely that I had a major release in April 2012. I mean, this is a grand-scale mod - some 7000+ files strong (this in total, the mod as such is about 6800 files, latest version). Hell even the folks over at the TWC realize that such stuff is news and so that stuff has been reported on - several times - in their publications over the years and it will probably be so again some day, over there. That's the TWC... The place that usually don't give a damn about MTW1 or STW1 essentially... Here, at the ORG however, no such thing has ever been attempted - even once - this since the content-branch was first created and I have now had 4 major releases since then. So, is it fair to say that the content-branch could do a better job? I think it is very reasonable to say so... Because if they are able to miss something like that - god knows what else they have missed around here that is not STW2. Get my drift?

As I understand things, it should not have been me that posted the existing notes on my stuff, it should have been them... I mean, it certainly strikes me as something that falls under aspect of, and I quote "maintain and promote content". Or did I get that declaration completely wrong somehow?

The ORG needs to take better care of the mods and stuff it actually has and make sure that the people that really do provide actual "content" here on their own (modders etc.) can feel recognized and supported here by staff. Not by some pretty words, but by active and regular action, hell even a post or two to show for it (not just to the modders, but to the rest of the world as well).... If you pull that off and do it seriously - and regularly - then you will eventually have more modders that feels it might just be worthwhile to start operate here and that will clearly work beneficial for the site. More modders and mods = more traffic. Just saying...

I'll do more comments later on...

- A

Hi @Axalon, I appreciate your input. I'm not taking anything you say personal and anything I say shouldn't be viewed solely as a way to evade my respsonsabilities. Rather as an explenation of the current situation and a base from which suggestions can be brought forward.

As a CM I feel I must respond to your comments above. The content staff is rather small. There are 5 of us at the moment, I believe, 2 with an assigned task (throne room for example). That leaves 3 for the entire Org. Keeping that number up has been very dificult. CM's seem to burn out fast and new ones are hard to find.
I probably spent around 1,5 to 2 hours on the Org every day (with some exeptions of course) reading and posting in no less than 7 subfora (staff subfora included). That doesn't include small side tasks originating from being a CM. I can honestly say I can do no more (unles I get payed).
I'm sure great content is missed on a daily basis. At the moment it can't be helped. That's why the tools have been provided to post your own articles on the front page, to make your own blog on the Org. You say it's the job of a CM to find every worthwile contribution and put it in a spotlight. I say the possibility is here to put your contributions in the spotlight and the CM's are here to help if you would need it. If that makes me obselete in your eyes, I will gladly step down (I could do with a sabatical).

Concerning the so-called overemphasis on Shogun 2, I can say that this is a deliberate strategy. New TW titles bring in new members. As staff (certainly the CM's), we agreed that Shogun 2 and it's following games would get priority (together with one or two other subfora). It's only logical. I wish we had enough CM's (and time) to give every subforum equal attention but that just isn't the case.

So what to do about it?
One simple word: emancipation. The CM's can't be everywhere so you (every member) have to draw our attention. If you have contributed something worthwhile or have seen such a contribution by another member, just PM me or Graphic or Voigtkampf. We'll gladly put it in the spotlight.

Hope to have cleared a few things up.
PP

[edyzmedieval]

I do kinda miss the old spam threads, they were quite funny and only had friendly banter.

[Andres]

I do kinda miss the old spam threads, they were quite funny and only had friendly banter.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I just wanted to let the membership know that staff is having a serious discussion concurrently with this one about how to reform the .Org, and all of your ideas are being weighed. There is an extremely good chance of there being changes, so please speak up if you have any ideas.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I think the real problem that the ORG has is that we don't really advertise what actually makes this place a fun forum. Which is the community and not at all the discussion about TotalWar games. It's been very evident that if you can group the residents of the ORG into two groups it's 1. People here for EB. 2. People who checked this place out a bit, but no longer play TW games.

I think we need to seriously re-evaluate what this entire forum and the website is going to be about if we want this place to have a little more action occurring here. I see everyone talking about how TWC operates and how they managed to secure all the traffic following the series, but one thing I have not heard people talk is about is how the ORG, which once had all the Clans and strategy talk happening around here, managed to lose it all to the TWC in the first place. Nor do I see people really want to take on TWC to take back the spot as #1 place for everything TotalWar (the reason why is evident as I will say below). So obviously nothing is going to happen regarding the traffic here because none of the changes have any direction to them, in terms of bestowing a defining characteristic to the org. What we have been doing is just general accessibility, and convenience updates that make using the site more functional but have not made the site more appealing.

I can take a look at the general forum page right now and see that all of the sections regarding TotalWar with the exception of the EB forums are for all intents and purposes, dead. What the kindle in this place is, and has been since 2009-2010, is the Tavern. We should honestly be focusing on cultivating our mafia community and making the front/backrooms out as a nice place for people to have fun, passionate, light hearted but not 4chan-ish topics/discussions.

In all honestly, I am just going to say this and it will come off as elitist, but whatever. As the TotalWar series went hardcore popular after Rome we got a major dumbing down of the average person who enjoys the series in terms of age, and if my experience at TWC tells me anything...in IQ as well. The way that you guys want this place to conduct itself is not conductive to most people who want to communicate at the level of xbox live kiddies. When I post in the political sections in TWC I get 4 right wingers and 4 left wingers shouting ad-hominems and non-sequitors while talking in the most dickish way possible. And when I say dickish, I know I seem like the kettle calling the pot cast iron here, but these people are dicks.

In all honesty, I think the era of mature men and women who want a friendly and more importantly structured discussion about TotalWar is long gone from here. There are just too many people who are at that teenage level of discussion that I was just at until recently. I mean I am looking at TWC's section for Bethesda games, and it all looks like the comments section for a Kotaku article.

So this is my completely untenable idea. Either we find a way to beat TWC at their own game, or this whole place will have be retweaked. If you guys don't like that because obviously the place is called "TotalWar.org" then that is understandable. One thing that Lemur told me when I got my first infraction here is that the moderators and community here have higher expectations in regards to conduct, if you want 4chan go to 4chan. However, one thing I seem to find every other website I go to is that most people just don't want to conform to a higher standard. I've seen it with reddit in many, many wonderful communities/subreddits where try-hards want to be be a part of something nice and ruin it for everyone because they never understood what the community was about in the first place.

I'm being a bitter old man right now and I am going to download what remaining updates the Fallout New Vegas modding community has provided for my mods before it had died earlier this year.

[Cute Wolf]

We do not and will not condone bullying at the Org, and name-calling is a form of that. Personal attacks are not appropriate, regardless of your opinions/feelings of that person; if you don't like them, there's an Ignore feature.

I am willing to embrace a great deal of change if the community wants it (be it forum appearance/structure, content, staff behaviour/rules, whatever), but bullying is one thing I truly stand against and won't budge over.



I'm more than willing to discuss these infractions with you at your discretion.

It's not bullying, it's only matter on how to express disgusts, and it's actually allready a mild form, it's barely an insult.

and about the problem with Pharoah, he's perma-banned on TWC because the moderators and admins there are also modders and they know how disruptive and annoying Pharoah is, while here, you decide to cradle and put him in soft spot... *@)**#@

[Tuuvi]

It's not bullying, it's only matter on how to express disgusts, and it's actually allready a mild form, it's barely an insult.

and about the problem with Pharoah, he's perma-banned on TWC because the moderators and admins there are also modders and they know how disruptive and annoying Pharoah is, while here, you decide to cradle and put him in soft spot... *@)**#@

Is Pharoah a troll? Is he trying to be disruptive? I've never gotten that vibe from him, I think he just wants to be a modder. It would be a lot more constructive to show him the errors of his ways and to help him become a better modder than to put him down. The TWC mods sound like jackasses to me.

[Cute Wolf]

Is Pharoah a troll? Is he trying to be disruptive? I've never gotten that vibe from him, I think he just wants to be a modder. It would be a lot more constructive to show him the errors of his ways and to help him become a better modder than to put him down. The TWC mods sound like jackasses to me.

seriously, VMs and PMs Spam to a modder who rejects "his plea for helping him to make his own mod" , initially we reply politely and some, including I, did put some constructive supports and stuffs, but after "PWEASE HELP ME MAKING BIRTH OF CIVILIZATION TW, WITH EGYPT, ASSUR, BABOLON, I KNOW YOU HAVE TIME TO HEWP ME!" "PWEASE HELP MEH MAKING BWA BWA BWA - TOTAL WAR" spam in your inbox and VMs (ask TWC Admins if you do not believe this, and this not only happened to me but to a very large numbers of modders) , making new threads on WIP sections and spam-posting other's threads... he's obviously a troll...

and when I found him also spam my ORG PMs and VMs I only ask him to go out of my profile, (albeit with harsh words, but the very same response on TWC didn't yield anything, but Secura infract me on the basis of unfriendliness)...

well I admit I go over the usual stuffs here at the org, one time asking him to commit suicide... but... nah, this time I don't get infracted of it, but I found it hillarious...

Hi Cute Wolf/Spike,


If a member harasses you with visitor messages, then you can report the unwanted messages. It is also possible to put a certain user on your ignore list. You also have the possiblity to delete visitor messages made by other patrons on your profile page. As a last resort, you can also switch VM's off in your profile.

Posting links to sites with explanations on how to commit suicide on another patrons' profile, however, goes a step too far.

Please, don't.

Thanks in advance,

Andres.

[Secura]

It's not bullying, it's only matter on how to express disgusts, and it's actually allready a mild form, it's barely an insult.

Telling someone they have no shame is one thing, sending them links on committing suicide is another. I allowed the former to slide, it was clearly just a statement of your frustration, but the latter quantifies as bullying, and a pretty extreme form at that; we've seen in the past that this type of comment can be taken very seriously by the victim (the Frontroom has had issues with this in the past), and thus they're taken very seriously by staff if we see such things.

Ultimately, there's no need to express your disdain for Pharoah, it has been suggested to you on multiple occasions that you can use the Ignore function at any time. As you have chosen not to follow this advice, one can only assume that you either enjoy the drama of your altercations (if you can call it an altercation, Pharoah doesn't really reciprocate) or you simply enjoy insulting a child. Either of these things is detrimental to your character and casts you in a bad light, as you're a pretty likeable guy otherwise.

and about the problem with Pharoah, he's perma-banned on TWC because the moderators and admins there are also modders and they know how disruptive and annoying Pharoah is, while here, you decide to cradle and put him in soft spot... *@)**#@

For the record, Pharoah was given the exact same treatment as you; had you reported him for harassing you, it would have been dealt with as severely as if you had continued insulting him, as outlined in my PMs to you both.

well I admit I go over the usual stuffs here at the org, one time asking him to commit suicide... but... nah, this time I don't get infracted of it, but I found it hillarious...

We don't usually moderate Visitor Messages in the manner we would normal things, and the message in question was already deleted by Pharoah by the time Andres spotted it, hence the simple PM rather than anything further.

It would be a lot more constructive to show him the errors of his ways and to help him become a better modder than to put him down.

This is a very good point, I think Pharoah could really benefit from a mentor of sorts and it is something I have suggested before but ultimately my words fell on deaf ears. I'm glad he's integrating himself with the modding community. :3

[Andres]

Cute Wolf, allthough I'm open to all suggestions, including loosening the rules and being more relaxed, some things will never be ok around here. Directing another member to "help sites" on how to commit suicide is one of those things. It's not because maybe the balance has shifted too much to one side of the spectrum that we're now going to shift the balance towards the other extreme, i.e. everything goes.

[Cute Wolf]

haha, sorry then... never tought that advising member to suicide is counted as extreme form of bullying....

darn, shouldn't listen what AP said then...

[Kagemusha]

So what do people actually want from Org? Nothing? Something? Is TWC and COM already delivering everything that people interested in TW want?

As an ex staffer.I can say that before and ever since Tosa passed away, great pains have been taken to make the forum more accessible and creating more content for it. Still staff cant do it all. Please people, state what is putting you on or off about the Org. This whole forum is created just for you, the forum members and your input is what can change the forum into your desired direction, but only if you voice that input.

Please speak out.