The Elephant in the room.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The comparisons being made between this case and that of other abuse rings simply don't cut it.

First off, the victims were targeted solely because of their racial profile. Eastern Europeans women may become trapped in prostitution rings because of their poverty. Vietnamese girls may be targeted by European men because they are able to get away with it in that country. In these cases the ethnic group of the victims is not the reason why they were targeted. What makes the case with these Pakistani men unique is that they targeted their victims purely because of their race.

Secondly, another reason why the comparison doesn't work is the relationship of the perpetrators with society. European men have to travel to Vietnam to find their victims because that sort of thing would never be tolerated by European society. Pedophiles are completley ostracised, vulnerable to vigilante-justice and generally regarded as the scum of the earth. On the other hand questions are being asked about whether the nature of the Pakistani community in Britain allowed these men to operate unhindered for so long.

Thirdly, there is the question over whether political motivitions had an impact on the ability of the police to do their job. This point is still really speculation but it's worth considering, especially given that we know the police had been aware for some time that this ring was active. I find it hard to believe this is par for the course when it comes to gathering evidence - effectively sacrificing more young girls so that they could make a stronger criminal conviction. Really?

[rvg]

The comparisons being made between this case and that of other abuse rings simply don't cut it.

First off, the victims were targeted solely because of their racial profile. Eastern Europeans women may become trapped in prostitution rings because of their poverty. Vietnamese girls may be targeted by European men because they are able to get away with it in that country. In these cases the ethnic group of the victims is not the reason why they were targeted. What makes the case with these Pakistani men unique is that they targeted their victims purely because of their race.

Or is it religion? Or the fact that they thought they could do it to those girls without the fear of being lynched by their neighbors?

Secondly, another reason why the comparison doesn't work is the relationship of the perpetrators with society. European men have to travel to Vietnam to find their victims because that sort of thing would never be tolerated by European society. Pedophiles are completley ostracised, vulnerable to vigilante-justice and generally regarded as the scum of the earth. On the other hand questions are being asked about whether the nature of the Pakistani community in Britain allowed these men to operate unhindered for so long.

Now this is a valid point.

Thirdly, there is the question over whether political motivitions had an impact on the ability of the police to do their job. This point is still really speculation but it's worth considering, especially given that we know the police had been aware for some time that this ring was active. I find it hard to believe this is par for the course when it comes to gathering evidence - effectively sacrificing more young girls so that they could make a stronger criminal conviction. Really?

So who's the real monster here, the silent majority or the cops whose duty is to protect the people?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Or is it religion? Or the fact that they thought they could do it to those girls without the fear of being lynched by their neighbors?

Well religion is really synonymous with race for our purposes here, ultimately the Pakistani community as a whole regards white women as trash. Although they seem to frame it in racial terms themselves. As we heard earlier, "white women are for fun".

As to the perpetrators possibly picking white girls because their community would not allow them to attack their own, even if that was the case (which is unlikely given the above), it would only show how deep the racism was in the wider community.

So who's the real monster here, the silent majority or the cops whose duty is to protect the people?

Well we don't know the particulars yet, although it is possible that it is down to an accumulation of errors.

[rvg]

Well religion is really synonymous with race for our purposes here, ultimately the Pakistani community as a whole regards white women as trash. Although they seem to frame it in racial terms themselves. As we heard earlier, "white women are for fun".

Let me ask you this, would they have extended the same kind of treatment to muslim girls (of any race) or to Christian Pakistani girls(yes, they do exist)? Keep in mind that I'm not trying to sugarcoat what they did (personally, I'd rather see them dead or in an American prison picking up the soap for the aryan brotherhood), but there's a huge difference between a racial hatred and ideological one.

[InsaneApache]

It's not religious. It's cultural. rather explodes multi-culturism wouldn't you think?

[rvg]

It's not religious. It's cultural. rather explodes multi-culturism wouldn't you think?

Never been a fan of multiculturalism myself. Speaking of culture though, don't Italian men oftentimes act pretty much the same (i.e. like complete pigs) way if they see an unescorted blonde on the streets of, say, Naples?
I can buy the cultural argument, but I can't consider this to be an indication of racism.

[InsaneApache]

Never been a fan of multiculturalism myself. Speaking of culture though, don't Italian men oftentimes act pretty much the same (i.e. like complete pigs) way if they see an unescorted blonde on the streets of, say, Naples?
I can buy the cultural argument, but I can't consider this to be an indication of racism.

Once you get away from northern europe/scandanavia women are, pretty much, in the main regarded as slabs of meat. To be used. At whim.*

*OK broad brush but made to make a point.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Let me ask you this, would they have extended the same kind of treatment to muslim girls (of any race) or to Christian Pakistani girls(yes, they do exist)?

I'm well aware of Pakistani Christians, they make up 50% of the population in one of the cities there, can't remember what one.

And the answer to your question is "no", no they do not treat Pakistani Christian girls that way, there are quite a few of them in the diaspora in Britain.

In their eyes, white girls are trash and their white skin is a clear indication of their trashy status. Not Pakistani Christian girls. Not Jewish girls. Not East Asian girls. Not any other group of girls that don't happen to be Muslim. Just white girls.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to sugarcoat what they did (personally, I'd rather see them dead or in an American prison picking up the soap for the aryan brotherhood), but there's a huge difference between a racial hatred and ideological one.

Speaking of prison gangs the Islamists are getting massive in the UK prisons. Forcing young inmates from their community to convert to al-Qaeda ideology, taking down posters of women, banning music on their wings, smuggling tapes of suicide bomber memorials etc.

From what I've heard UK prisons are starting to sound a lot more like American prisons. Divided along racial lines and nastier in general. Another things we can thank diversity for.