Euro Area

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

with your

With your monopoly money how do you even dare to interfere. Dollar is bancrupt.Even with its current low point euro/emu area is stronger then dollar. You invented this idea of living of debt and likes of fururnculus still continue shouting the mantra. US debt will be equal to US GDP in less then 10 years and everybody and few others know it already.

So i understand that you would like nothing better then euro to fail, but its not happening anytime soon.

Just take good care of yourselfs my big brother from other side of pond when china owns 2/3rds of your national debt.

The Euro area is in recession, the US is recovering.

The US Dollar is also a reserve currency.

The US has viable natural resources to exploit - and a strong industrial base (not as strong as it was, admittedly).

The Euro-Area is much weaker than the US, it lacks political cohesion, economic output is depressed and falling, and it is not a reserve currency.

In other words: You're wrong, which is why everyone will by Us Bonds and nobody wants Greek ones, or Italian, Spanish, Portugese, or Irish ones much either.

[Kagemusha]

The Euro area is in recession, the US is recovering.

The US Dollar is also a reserve currency.

The US has viable natural resources to exploit - and a strong industrial base (not as strong as it was, admittedly).

The Euro-Area is much weaker than the US, it lacks political cohesion, economic output is depressed and falling, and it is not a reserve currency.

In other words: You're wrong, which is why everyone will by Us Bonds and nobody wants Greek ones, or Italian, Spanish, Portugese, or Irish ones much either.

Economical strength is compared by GDP, please take a look.You think continental europe and its holdings is bare wasteland? Like is said, please join the US. British products will get cheaper along the way.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Economical strength is compared by GDP, please take a look.You think continental europe and its holdings is bare wasteland? Like is said, please join the US. British products will get cheaper along the way.

GDP measures output not base strength. In any case the US is still the world's largest economy and the Eurozone's GDP is currently contracting, Europe is getting poorer, US GDP is expanding, the US is getting richer.

China is buying US bonds, yes, but so is Norway, Britain - everyone is buying them.

They are buying them quicker even than they are buying German debt.

The US has also not seen governmental collapse, like Greece, Italy and the Netherlands.

The US has economic problems - but it also has a responsible Federal Bank and it issues only one bond for it's debts vs the 17 for the Eurozone.

Edit: Oh, and "European Union GDP" includes we British "leeches" - given that Britain alone accounts for over 2.4 billion of EU GDP "Continental" Europe is a palty ~150,000 ahead of the US, and falling.

Edit 2:

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_GDP_(nominal)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'd also like to know what makes us "leeches" and not the debtor countries in the Eurozone - except the Irish, who are apparently bastards to Kage for some reason.

[HopAlongBunny]

My take on this is, even if things worked perfectly Greece would default.

Assuming perfect labour mobility, people would move from the depressed areas (Greece, Spain, Portugal etc.) to where the jobs are.

Germany benefits from declining wages as labour flows in, cheapening its manufactures and boosting its productivity Hurrah!

Greece is faced with a declining need for new debt as population flows ease the demand on its resources, but is faced with a declining tax base to service what was already viewed as an unsustainable level of debt.

It took centuries to get the "fiction" of Britain, Germany, France etc to work. It took a lot of negotiation, violence and failure to get those to work; Europa will be no different.

[Tellos Athenaios]

@Philip: government collapse is a bit of a strong word for what happened in the Netherlands. To have something collapse you first need it to be in some shape or form that can actually collapse. The Dutch government never was in such shape or form, and the Euro does not have anything to do with that.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

@Philip: government collapse is a bit of a strong word for what happened in the Netherlands. To have something collapse you first need it to be in some shape or form that can actually collapse. The Dutch government never was in such shape or form, and the Euro does not have anything to do with that.

Yes collapse is a bit strong, but it still represents a worse situation than even the debt deadlock in the US. Kage wants to paint the EU as economically stronger than the US - but the EU lacks a central government to make sure debts etc. are paid when a State's government breaks down.

It doesn't directly have anything to do with the Euro (although Wilders walked out over FU) but it contributes to the argument that the Euro area is weak politically.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yes collapse is a bit strong, but it still represents a worse situation than even the debt deadlock in the US.

Nope. Suddenly assorted parties on the right found out that it is better to deal with left wing parties than right wing populists. Which is better for the Netherlands and better for the EU as the resulting agreement on the budget is much better at the cost of ignoring a couple of populist talking points. Plus, the populists don't get the credit, which hopefully translates into less votes come the election.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Nope. Suddenly assorted parties on the right found out that it is better to deal with left wing parties than right wing populists. Which is better for the Netherlands and better for the EU as the resulting agreement on the budget is much better at the cost of ignoring a couple of populist talking points. Plus, the populists don't get the credit, which hopefully translates into less votes come the election.

Sorry?

What was that?

I'm afraid my brain is no longer capable of processing positive news from the Eurozone.

Still - there is still Greece et al.

[gaelic cowboy]

Economical strength is compared by GDP, please take a look.You think continental europe and its holdings is bare wasteland? Like is said, please join the US. British products will get cheaper along the way.

I never seen a country yet that gets to spend it's GDP.

GNP is the key

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I never seen a country yet that gets to spend it's GDP.

GNP is the key

He's wrong anyay - Eurozone GDP is below US GDP.

[gaelic cowboy]

He's wrong anyay - Eurozone GDP is below US GDP.

And interestingly the US is a country that has a higher GNP than GDP or at least it did the last time I checked.

[Furunculus]

another good one from the ECFR:

http://ecfr.eu/content/entry/how_fra...ke_europe_work

“The weakness of the system is not about spending and how to promote growth, but about legitimacy”, said a [german] finance ministry official.
It may be possible to put off treaty change for a few more years. But the provisions of the Fiscal Compact, the pressure on Germany, the weaknesses of the Lisbon Treaty and the imperative need to give the eurozone strong, representative and accountable political authorities will ensure that the issue returns to the agenda sooner than many expect.

[Beskar]

Being honest, the real method to solving this would be for the ECB to simply buy the debt of Greece. I am sure lots of investors would be willing to sell their debt on for a low price just to make some return. Then the ECB simply kills off all interest payments so the only money Greece pays to the ECB for the debt simply reduces the total debt amount. (Debt only increases/decreases via Euro inflation)

As for austerity measures, simply start getting a Euro-wide average, lets say, Greece has to have the same retirement age as the Germans. Therefore, Greece is only being asked simply to align itself to the other powers within the Eurozone.

This would make repayments completely affordable for Greece and the "Euro is saved".

Now start doing this for the other countries such as Spain, Ireland, Italy with the ECB slowly buying, consolidating and cancelling the inter-eurozone debt. This is what I would have done economy wise near the start of the crisis.

As I said donkeys ago, lets say Furunculus owes me £100 and I owe him £90, we simply cancel the debt out so ultimately Furunculus just owes me £10 which is a significant reduction for his expenses.

[Kagemusha]

The Euro area is in recession, the US is recovering.

The US Dollar is also a reserve currency.

The US has viable natural resources to exploit - and a strong industrial base (not as strong as it was, admittedly).


The Euro-Area is much weaker than the US, it lacks political cohesion, economic output is depressed and falling, and it is not a reserve currency.

In other words: You're wrong, which is why everyone will by Us Bonds and nobody wants Greek ones, or Italian, Spanish, Portugese, or Irish ones much either.

btw who is buying US bonds? please elaborate?Except china ofcourse