Magna Mundi Cancelled

[CountArach]

Everything I ever wanted in a game... gone...

Linky

Hi all,

today Paradox Interactive decided to cancel Magna Mundi. It will not see the light of day under the current set up: Universo Virtual (UV) will not be part of this project any more.

The reasons for cancelling the contract with Universo Virtual include the following:

- Lack of progress; we have seen this project drag on and the code we have gotten has not shown significant improvement for many months. Some old and known problems persists and new ones appear with each delivery.

- Lack of trust; the leadership of UV has given a sunshine version of the project to Paradox and reacted with irritation and anger when we have pointed out obvious problems with the deliveries. It has come to a point where they claim the project is done, and the game is ready for release – despite the many critical issues found and reported on our end.

- Internal strife within the MM team; we have gotten information from members within the MM team desperate to save the project whom report to us that the project lacks active leadership. Key personnel in the project see what Paradox sees but instead gets silenced by the UV leadership.

All in all, these are not circumstances under which we can work with a team and it will now stop. At this point we have no more news than the above.

Sincerely and regretfully,
Mattias Lilja
Executive Producer for Magna Mundi

[rickinator9]

It will not see the light of day under the current set up: Universo Virtual (UV) will not be part of this project any more.

Paradox is prolly gonna complete it. The devs said everything is largely done, but that there are crashes and might have been a reason to sack that team.

[Vladimir]

Sux.

[TinCow]

- Lack of trust; the leadership of UV has given a sunshine version of the project to Paradox and reacted with irritation and anger when we have pointed out obvious problems with the deliveries. It has come to a point where they claim the project is done, and the game is ready for release – despite the many critical issues found and reported on our end.

This doesn't surprise me at all. I used to play a lot of Magna Mundi, and frequently read the subforum over at the Paradox site. Ubik always struck me as incredibly stuck-up and self-centered, with no interest in anyone's opinion other than his own. Clearly his attitude was an actual character flaw and not just frustration with having to deal with a lot of whiny players. It shows a distinct lack of professionalism to let something like this impact employment.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

He posts here sometimes :P Or at least he did. :/

[Monk]

He posts here sometimes :P Or at least he did. :/

He only posted here to talk about the standalone version of MM and then only after someone, I think TC, expressed doubt this would ever actually amount to something.

As for the news: Sad. Always sad to see a professional relationship breakdown but not really surprising given the media they had been releasing of MM. Had a bad feeling about this one for a while. The thread linked in the OP is pretty entertaining, though. Apologists are funny.

[TinCow]

He only posted here to talk about the standalone version of MM and then only after someone, I think TC, expressed doubt this would ever actually amount to something.

Wasn't me, but basically yes. He probably found the thread via google or something. I remember his first post well, as it struck me as typically ubik. He basically registered and posted just to say that if people found the game difficult, they were playing it wrong, and any imbecile should be able to see that. It wasn't so much the content of his response that was wrong (he was correct about what he was saying), it was the delivery. It was very confrontational and belittling, and pretty much stated that criticisms of the game were because the criticizers were dumb. That's a poor attitude to take when actively going out to boost support for your first foray into professional development. That single post pretty much eliminated any desire I had to buy a finished version of the game, despite having put hundreds of hours into the mod version.

[Beskar]

Never underestimate our ability (mine in particular) to screw things!

Looks like he was right after all.

[Jolt]

Looks like he was right after all.

Teehee!

New developments though!

Greetings Magna Mundi fans,

I am just writing this post to let you know that Universo Virtual and myself will answer in the proper legal forum to the weird "cancellation" of the game. I'd also like to make it known the "cancellation" issue is just a detail on everything that's going to be settled there.

I am not going to allow that my name and my credibility are to be placed in jeopardy as they have been for some time now. I intend to come out of this with a big smile in my face and my name clean.


In the following days Universo Virtual legal team will make a public statement about this issue.


Thank you for your support,

Carlos Gustavo Benavente

This was posted in the Magna Mundi's own forum. So, who shall bring the popcorn?

[Monk]

Teehee!

New developments though!



This was posted in the Magna Mundi's own forum. So, who shall bring the popcorn?

Oh lawd here we go.

[Monk]

Oh what a tangled web. It looks like our dear ubik and his legal team will be going it alone, as many of his development team posted this earlier today:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ng-Magna-Mundi

We know that many of you have been wondering about the MM developers and there have been few statements. Some of us have thought long and hard about what we want to say and have decided to issue a joint statement.

A lot has happened behind the scenes, but none of it matters now. We have each terminated our contracts with Universo Virtual since we were only ever interested in the fate of Magna Mundi. While we wish Universo Virtual the best of luck in its future endeavors in spite of all has transpired, we do not in any way endorse legal action, nor expect it to accomplish much.

This has been an emotional and exhausting couple of weeks so far for all involved. We have said some unfortunate things that we now regret and for which we beg pardon. We also would like to thank all of our fans who have taken the time to show support for us. Unfortunately, it seems we did not quite make it to the finish line in time.

It has been a true honor and a privilege to work with many of the bright and talented people on the Magna Mundi team. Our team was a revolving door of faces and names, but we would like to take the time to acknowledge the many contributions of our former colleagues and pay tribute to their achievements.

• Andres created a realistic map by combining many data sources with complex algorithms.
• Anton maintained the MMDT history tools.
• Brittany wrote a fantastic manual and the text of a truly innovative tutorial..
• Carlos G. was a creative and ambitious guy without whom this project would never have started.
• Carlos S. brought us a great new system of combat with an AI to match.
• Daniel B. was an unsung hero who managed the server and kept things running.
• Fernando M. gave us the unit models.
• Hernan was an awesome beta tester and contributed to the Spanish translation.
• Jacques gave us a shiny new naval system.
• Jan contributed to work on the renderer and improving the look of the game..
• Jorge G. did the large part of the UI engine work for the game .
• Jorge M. contributed on many fronts, including Transferables.
• Juan gave us factions, the engine work for the tutorial, counters, and was instrumental on the new renderer.
• Miguel implemented rank, a new system of piracy, and animations, among other things.
• Nick provided us with an excellent save game editing tool.
• Rui did fantastic work on QA and provided support in many areas, including localization and balance.
• Stefan gave us our attractive non-unit models.
• Zaki gave us the implementations of the Tribal and Merchant Marine mechanics.
• Others, such as Brent, Joseph, Alex L., Alex W., Julien, and the many other betas and contributors to the project also made important contributions to the project.
• All of the Paradox betas who tried to help us test our game, with a special mention to Seelensturm, who singlehandedly reported around 100 bugs. In truth, most of the versions you saw were more like alpha versions, and we thank you for your commitment, good will, and patience in the face of everything.

We do not know what the future holds. We feel that it takes honesty, openness, and trust to ever build anything worth doing like Magna Mundi. Should Paradox see fit to continue the game in any form, we would gladly offer our services. That is, after all, what we wanted, and still want: to see the fruits of our collective labor. Whatever comes to pass, all we know is that at least some of us may work together again.

Yours,

James Coe (Vishaing, Former Scripter, Magna Mundi)
Daniel Danborg (RevoltingFriend, Former Artist, Magna Mundi)
Merse Kovácsházi (k_merse, Former Database Editor, Magna Mundi)
Jun-Hee Lee (Ese Khan, Former Scripter, Magna Mundi)
Lars Maischak (Helius, Former Scripting Lead, Magna Mundi)
Michael Myers (MichaelM, Former Engine Developer, Magna Mundi)
Anuraag Pakanati (Zeitgeist, Former Engine Lead, Magna Mundi)
Ignacio Sagüés Serrano (LoK-y-Yo, Former Spanish Translator, Magna Mundi)
Maxim Yudin (Ignatich, Former Engine Developer, Magna Mundi)

[TinCow]

That last one was a mature and professional response. It stands in stark contrast with the 'management' comments.

[Monk]

That last one was a mature and professional response. It stands in stark contrast with the 'management' comments.

Indeed.

[Jolt]

Moar drama!

Fredrik Wester,

I am publicly addressing you as I feel it’s my duty to the Magna Mundi fans to do the utmost to save the game and allow them to experience the work of the very special and talented team I have the pleasure to lead.
I also feel I have the duty to the team I lead to try to save Magna Mundi. The involvement of the team on the project and how all worked together towards the single objective of delivering the game was impressive. I was still deciding things minutes before I was warned by a Spanish team member that the game had been cancelled.
After reading that you were the one coming up with the idea of turning Magna Mundi into a commercial project, I feel we stand exactly at the same level of responsibility towards the fans: I created the brand and coordinated both the amateur and the professional projects and you decided to take advantage of it by producing a commercial game and in the process take ownership of the brand.

In the first scenario everybody wins. This scenario demands leadership, charisma and ability to compromise. And those are exactly the qualities I am asking for you to show while trying to summon them myself. It’s a scenario where, to put it simply, a normal release date is set (I have no problem about a release in two or three months time to accommodate your release schedule), the game gets normally released and UV will continue to assume its responsibilities from then on. If for any reason you want UV to stop supporting Magna Mundi after the release thus allowing Paradox to take control of any future development within the scope of Magna Mundi, we can certainly talk about that.

At present the situation is clear. Your decision to cancel the game will lead to a legal battle where Universo Virtual will try its best to beat Paradox, while Paradox will be doing the same to Universo Virtual. All the while I will neither give you the Magna Mundi engine nor return to you a single euro that you spent financing the development of the game.
Courts apart, I am not one who fears the judgement of the public. I invite everyone who can come to Lisbon to check for them the game and make a judgement about it.

In my book, cancelling a game at this stage and in these conditions while demanding back the money used for funding its development for two and a half years, demanding also the engine of the game, continuing to enjoy the ownership of the brand and retaining the possibility of releasing Magna Mundi for you, has a far uglier name than “cancellation”.

As I'm in Lisbon itself, I'm strongly considering taking up his offer of checking the game out for a couple of hours, then writing on the Paradox forum about it.

[johnhughthom]

Never heard another mod creator/team describe it as "creating a brand".

[Monk]

There are let's plays of it on Paradox's youtube channel, it looks awful and unfinished after two years in development. I don't need to travel to Lisbon to tell me that. Considering it was going to be released this week, it's really no shock it was canceled. It makes all the sense in the world if Paradox expected it to bomb hard to cancel it

Never heard another mod creator/team describe it as "creating a brand".

Special kind of crazy.

[Jolt]

There are let's plays of it on Paradox's youtube channel, it looks awful and unfinished after two years in development. I don't need to travel to Lisbon to tell me that. Considering it was going to be released this week, it's really no shock it was canceled. It makes all the sense in the world if Paradox expected it to bomb hard to cancel it



Special kind of crazy.

Pass me the coke please.

http://forum.universo-virtual.com/vi...php?f=8&t=4326

Hi Ubik and team, just came to say that I have been following the game for quite a while. The current leak beta version is simply amazing if not a bit dated. I would just like to give you some encouragement to leak the clausewitz engine and the full game if possible. We the fans will take over from there and fix all of the bugs and features and would truly appreciate such an action. We do not care about drama, lawsuits or anything. We just want a moddable game, and to be able to have access to the actual engine that creates these wonderful strategy games would simply be amazing. Please consider leaking, whether now or after the situation plays out. There are people out there who can help make sure the leak is not connected to you in any way. You can delete this message once you have finished reading it, as it has served its purpose. Cheers!

Apparently every post in the Universo Virtual forum has to be approved by ubik before it goes public (Not sure if it is also that way towards new threads).

Meaning we would now have ubik consenting on posts openly asking the developers to leak everything.

Poor Paradox, they never imagined what a train wreck this was going to be when they approached ubik for the first time. xD

[TinCow]

It's times like this when I wish I was counsel for Paradox. The sheer legal glee of these kinds of comments is like sugar coated diamonds sprinkled on top of a gilded peanut butter cup.

[Graphic]

Wasn't me, but basically yes. He probably found the thread via google or something. I remember his first post well, as it struck me as typically ubik. He basically registered and posted just to say that if people found the game difficult, they were playing it wrong, and any imbecile should be able to see that. It wasn't so much the content of his response that was wrong (he was correct about what he was saying), it was the delivery. It was very confrontational and belittling, and pretty much stated that criticisms of the game were because the criticizers were dumb. That's a poor attitude to take when actively going out to boost support for your first foray into professional development. That single post pretty much eliminated any desire I had to buy a finished version of the game, despite having put hundreds of hours into the mod version.

I had no knowledge of this game or ubik before I heard about this brewhaha on RPS, but he's starting to remind me of Ramm-Jager, Tripwire Interactive's CEO. He reached for every excuse he possibly could to explain the dire state of Red Orchestra 2 at release, and did it in a condescending manner. He takes all criticism very personally and doesn't hesitate to reply out of anger. With these two, and the impression I get from the creator of a particular series of Total War mods, I'm starting to think that the position of mod team leader attracts or creates people with ego problems.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

That's funny, because that's also how the team that released Sword of the Stars 2 acts.

[Crazed Rabbit]

It's times like this when I wish I was counsel for Paradox. The sheer legal glee of these kinds of comments is like sugar coated diamonds sprinkled on top of a gilded peanut butter cup.

You must elaborate, good sir.

CR

[Voigtkampf]

People like them should be aware that they are unable to cope with their customers and should employ a PR/community manager. The damage they produce is of downright epic proportions... SotS2 leading dev is especially a notorious example of a manager unable to cope with the customers. Sadly, there are only few people in the gaming business that understand how to deal with fans/gamers/customers, one of them is Dan Stahl from STO. That guy should be studied and lectured about.

[Graphic]

People like them should be aware that they are unable to cope with their customers and should employ a PR/community manager. The damage they produce is of downright epic proportions... SotS2 leading dev is especially a notorious example of a manager unable to cope with the customers. Sadly, there are only few people in the gaming business that understand how to deal with fans/gamers/customers, one of them is Dan Stahl from STO. That guy should be studied and lectured about.

This is funny because Yoshi from Tripwire (who is their community manager) is awesome. The problem is Ramm-Jager won't shut up and let Yoshi handle it.

One of the worst things I've ever seen a developer do is when RO Ladder made a statement about their shut down due to the lifelessness of RO2, lack of mod tools, broken promises, etc. that makes running clan matches almost impossible, Ramm took it upon himself to write a response to it blaming it all on RO Ladder, calling them spoiled and unruly, denying the state of affairs, etc. RO Ladder was over a decade old and went aaaaaaaaall the way back to the original Red Orchestra mod for UT2003. Shameful display.

[TinCow]

You must elaborate, good sir.

CR

His attempts to drum up support (or whatever it is he is doing right now) are actively hurting his legal position with every post. This latest bit with him approving a post about a leak gives some pretty strong evidence that he condones this behavior. If there is a leak of any of Paradox's property, there's now a smoking gun in ubik's hand. We're talking criminal charges, not just civil breach of contract stuff.

[Voigtkampf]

This is funny because Yoshi from Tripwire (who is their community manager) is awesome. The problem is Ramm-Jager won't shut up and let Yoshi handle it.

One of the worst things I've ever seen a developer do is when RO Ladder made a statement about their shut down due to the lifelessness of RO2, lack of mod tools, broken promises, etc. that makes running clan matches almost impossible, Ramm took it upon himself to write a response to it blaming it all on RO Ladder, calling them spoiled and unruly, denying the state of affairs, etc. RO Ladder was over a decade old and went aaaaaaaaall the way back to the original Red Orchestra mod for UT2003. Shameful display.

It is simply astonishing, the lack of tact, sense for doing business and relating to customers, as well as the epic proportions this can take on. CEO's of many developing teams around the world behave like that. Remember that guy from ME3? Some might recall the CCP's behavior up to the point EVE Online started bleeding subs like crazy, people leaving in droves and them understanding, oh crap, EVE O is our only source of income and our most unique product, we can't treat it and the fan base like the unwanted stepchild! The profound lack of professionalism and exceeding levels of arrogance with these people is mind-boggling.

[Graphic]

It is simply astonishing, the lack of tact, sense for doing business and relating to customers, as well as the epic proportions this can take on. CEO's of many developing teams around the world behave like that. Remember that guy from ME3? Some might recall the CCP's behavior up to the point EVE Online started bleeding subs like crazy, people leaving in droves and them understanding, oh crap, EVE O is our only source of income and our most unique product, we can't treat it and the fan base like the unwanted stepchild! The profound lack of professionalism and exceeding levels of arrogance with these people is mind-boggling.

Thinking about it makes me respect Creative Assembly even more. The response by less tactful devs to the way people act on TWC wouldn't be pretty at all.

[Voigtkampf]

Thinking about it makes me respect Creative Assembly even more. The response by less tactful devs to the way people act on TWC wouldn't be pretty at all.

CA folks at least have enough sense not to accuse their player base of being whiny b****es and simply keep their mouths shut when the heat is on, but that is the extent of their PR prowess.

[Zim]

What a mess. It's too bad. I really enjoyed some of the earlier versions of MM butended up switching to vanilla as it improved with expansions.

[Cecil XIX]

It's too bad, I was really looking forward to this. I'd like to think that since Paradox owns the project, and such a large portion of the develop team has publicly distanced themselves form Ubik, we might see the game released eventually in some form or another. Not holding my breath, though. Ubik's arrogance is finally catching up to him...

[Jolt]

And there you have it folks. A version of Magna Mundi has been leaked. I just visited the Magna Mundi sub-forum to see a discussion on the said leak and on how unstable the build was.

So now according to TinCow, Paradox can press criminal charges against Ubik and win in court? Ooo. Now this should be a very good episode.