Obama's position on the estate tax

[Vuk]

I have read several articles on Obama's position on the estate tax that all contradict each other.
1.
2.
3.

Not one of them source their information, so I have no way to check and see which one of them (if any) are telling the truth. Does anyone have any (well sourced) info on Obama's stance on the estate tax?

[HoreTore]

I can't answer your question. So, I'll derail your thread by adding this:

People seem to more readily accept that the possibility to improve is lessened, than having something they already have lessened. Unfortunately, what makes economic sense is theother way around.

Taxing what people already have(estate, wealth, etc) is better in an economic sense than taxing their ability to improve(income tax).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I can't answer your question. So, I'll derail your thread by adding this:

People seem to more readily accept that the possibility to improve is lessened, than having something they already have lessened. Unfortunately, what makes economic sense is theother way around.

Taxing what people already have(estate, wealth, etc) is better in an economic sense than taxing their ability to improve(income tax).

No, taxing economic activity, what they buy is better. Taxing wealth and estates is worse than taxing incomes (especially death tax) because it interupts inheritence which is a key pillar of social mobility. Contrary to popular belief, most people cannot change classes in a generation, but families can inherit wealth across generations - you get a white collar job as a clerk, your child gets to go to university.

Wealth tax has no practical effect on the Rich, unless they are deeply unfortunate and it destroys the estate, what it really does is prevent the poor from accumulating wealth.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sales tax is probably the best.

Anyways, Vuk, I'll make this easy for you; believe the CNN article.

PS - Newsmax? Seriously?

CR

[Vuk]

While this is an interesting conversation, could you please save it for another thread, so as not to distract people from my question? (or at least talk about it after my question is answered) Thanks.

[Vuk]

Sales tax is probably the best.

Anyways, Vuk, I'll make this easy for you; believe the CNN article.

PS - Newsmax? Seriously?

CR

I googled Obama Estate Tax and they were the first relevant articles that came up.
Could you give me a reason to trust the CNN article? I doubt Fox would just outright lie about Obama like that, as that would destroy their credibility. My guess is that either Obama had two positions at two different times, and they are picking which to report on, or that the truth lies in some detail.

[Major Robert Dump]

I hate to break it to you, Vuk, but the estate tax is nothing more than a talking point by the right. Republican controlled Congress has had the opportunity to kill the ET several times in the past twenty years -- to include a Republican President/Republican Majority -- and they never, ever do.

Do you know why?

Because it makes up an inoordinate amount of the federal tax coffers, and no one has any inkling on how to replace that lost money. I believe it is second only to the income tax.

And a side issue on the matter is how to give "reparations" to people who were screwed leading up to the repeal. I can see it now, grandma dies and no one reports it because at the end of FY 2013 the estate tax goes away. Imagine having to pay it on a dead relatives estate and 1 week later the law changes lol

It goes without saying the Democrats will always support it because it is a tax.

Also, FYI, the Waltons have spent a smooth 100 million since Sam died trying to get the law repealed, because when old lady Walton passes the owners of Wal Mart are going to have an estate tax bill in the billions. I seriously think sometimes the spending habits of our government reflects tax days like when the Waltons die, kind of like in the lead-up to the Facebook IPO a bunch of California legislators were talking about how the taxes on the stock sales would help the California economy. Yeah

[Vuk]

I hate to break it to you, Vuk, but the estate tax is nothing more than a talking point by the right. Republican controlled Congress has had the opportunity to kill the ET several times in the past twenty years -- to include a Republican President/Republican Majority -- and they never, ever do.

Do you know why?

Because it makes up an inoordinate amount of the federal tax coffers, and no one has any inkling on how to replace that lost money. I believe it is second only to the income tax.

And a side issue on the matter is how to give "reparations" to people who were screwed leading up to the repeal. I can see it now, grandma dies and no one reports it because at the end of FY 2013 the estate tax goes away. Imagine having to pay it on a dead relatives estate and 1 week later the law changes lol

It goes without saying the Democrats will always support it because it is a tax.

Also, FYI, the Waltons have spent a smooth 100 million since Sam died trying to get the law repealed, because when old lady Walton passes the owners of Wal Mart are going to have an estate tax bill in the billions. I seriously think sometimes the spending habits of our government reflects tax days like when the Waltons die, kind of like in the lead-up to the Facebook IPO a bunch of California legislators were talking about how the taxes on the stock sales would help the California economy. Yeah

First of all, I didn't start this thread to discuss it. I just want to know if anyone has an answer to my question. Second of all, I never gave my opinion on the estate tax.

[ajaxfetish]

I doubt Fox would just outright lie about Obama like that, as that would destroy their credibility.

That ship has already sailed.

Ajax

[Strike For The South]

Tax the bourgeois

If your Daddy has more than a cool 5 million in the bank, you have already been given plenty of oppurtunties in this life.

I will not shed a tear.

[Crazed Rabbit]

First of all, I didn't start this thread to discuss it. I just want to know if anyone has an answer to my question. Second of all, I never gave my opinion on the estate tax.

You realize you posted this in the Backroom, right? :eyeroll:

Because it makes up an inoordinate amount of the federal tax coffers, and no one has any inkling on how to replace that lost money. I believe it is second only to the income tax.

Call me skeptical. This pro-estate tax article says it makes up less than 1%: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...075638722.html

CR

[ICantSpellDawg]

The estate tax is a stupid argument. The tax has been higher and there is precedent for it, governments are free to tinker with it. My problem is with corporate and income taxes generally. What happens after someone dies who earned millions of dollars or more in life is not my concern. If the government believes that It can tax people after their death than so be it. My concern is with earning wealth and spending money as you see fit in life, not creating dynasties and controlling money after you are dead.

Death tax is one of the many red herrings in politics that most people, except the wealthiest of the wealthy who have never heard of trusts and giving to others, need not worry themselves about.

[Strike For The South]

The estate tax is a stupid argument. The tax has been higher and there is precedent for it, governments are free to tinker with it. My problem is with corporate and income taxes generally. What happens after someone dies who earned millions of dollars or more in life is not my concern. If the government believes that It can tax people after their death than so be it. My concern is with earning wealth and spending money as you see fit in life, not creating dynasties and controlling money after you are dead.

Death tax is one of the many red herrings in politics that most people, except the wealthiest of the wealthy who have never heard of trusts and giving to others, need not worry themselves about.

Lately you seem to be only concerned with yourself.

I realize people are going to devote the majority of their time to causes that affect them directly but you seem to take it to an entierly new level.

Such base and vapid ethics

[a completely inoffensive name]

I doubt Fox would just outright lie about Obama like that, as that would destroy their credibility.

Oh wow, wow, WOW.

This statement is....the statement that just perfectly describes you in a nutshell, Vuk.

[Greyblades]

Could you give me a reason to trust the CNN article? I doubt Fox would just outright lie about Obama like that, as that would destroy their credibility. .

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[gaelic cowboy]

I seriously doubt anyone on the org would ever be affected by this kind of "Death Tax" as people seem inclined to call it.

Never ceases to amaze me though how this non-issue keeps coming up every election and of course the Republicans never cease to wave it like a voodoo doll at the people.

Even with farming familes of which prob over 80% of farms are no more the 500acre in the USA meaning most people will never pay this tax.

They rile people up with tales of "We had to sell the farm to pay Daddies death taxes boohoo boohoo" the reality is the majority of repub voters will never ever pay this tax.

[HoreTore]

A death tax is awesome.

Reap the benefits of a lowered tax rate all your life, then pay Uncle Sam back when you have no need of money anymore. A win-win for everyone.

[gaelic cowboy]

A death tax is awesome.

Reap the benefits of a lowered tax rate all your life, then pay Uncle Sam back when you have no need of money anymore. A win-win for everyone.

hmm there is a germ of an idea here Horetore it might encourage people to spend all there money prior to death which would boost vat receipts etc etc.

Place like Florida would absolutely boom with consumer spending in the local economy.

[HoreTore]

hmm there is a germ of an idea here Horetore it would also encourage people to spend all there money just prior to death which boosts vat receipts etc etc.

I'm not that big on encouraging spending... Enviromentalist reflex, I guess.

[gaelic cowboy]

The sales tax and vat on renewables and all that good stuff is less meaning you buy it

[rory_20_uk]

Making changes to a system one has to consider the ways the system will alter to take this into account, which seemingly isn't often done.

Death taxes would encourage one to pass on one's assets prior to death to avoid it by a number of different methods. The UK basing care costs on one's worth is already creating the incentive to divest assets lest the state gets them all anyway.
Income tax can make jobs less attractive than elsewhere. Many jobs are international. My industry still has the almost requirement to work in the USA for a bit. Is living in the UK that much better than having 3 weeks of holiday here? If there was a 40% difference in salary I might think differently.
Sales tax is often called a "tax on the poor" (although it could be stratified by item with no tax on certain items) and might encourage purchases abroad (the rush to Calais for fags and booze a classic example), although
Property tax seems good to have, but a pain to instigate as it would massively dampen the value of property. So, getting to one is political suicide.

[HoreTore]

Devaluing property is absolutely vital.

In the current situation people move money from the productive sector to property. It should ne the otherway around. So, dump taxes on businesses, especially startups, and crank up the tax on property(and other things people out their money in which doesn't create anything).

[rory_20_uk]

Absolutely - if there was an annual property tax of a percentage of a property's worth this would slash property costs, help first time buyers, generate income for the state that could offset other taxes, and reduce the bills for social housing indirectly.

Those with would hate it of course, especially the elderly who think it is their right to live in a large house that they bought decades ago for a fraction of its current value. If they can't afford to heat it, rather than think they should downsize the government should give them free money to do so. Help for first time buyers of course, but the hardship should fall elsewhere. Such as the young whilst the elderly gripe that the vast amounts that Social and Medical care provide isn't enough as they paid their taxes - and cheerfully forget that life expectancies have shot up and so in a very real sense they haven't paid sufficient taxes.

As Greece and California proves so well, rarely does direct democracy lead to self-sacrifice.

[HoreTore]

When I become dictator, I'm making you finance minister, rory.

[Major Robert Dump]

First of all, I didn't start this thread to discuss it. I just want to know if anyone has an answer to my question. Second of all, I never gave my opinion on the estate tax.

#1 I already know your opinion
#2 Obama is a Liberal Democrat so of course he approves of the estate tax and raising it more

@gaelic cowboy: Although not at the levels being discussed here, the estate tax does actually affect lower earners. For example, my parents home was a gift through an inheritence, which they moved into after they sold their home. If they outright left the home to me in their will, I would be taxed on this home as it has already been gifted once. Of course, there are easy ways around this

@Crazed Rabbit: Hmmm, yeah I see the 1%. So maybe it's a little further down the tier than I expected. For some reason I was under the impression it was below income but above capital gains, I'll keep looking. My argument still stands the same, though, in that past opportunities to kill this tax have been ignored due in large part to there not being an alternate source for the income

[Major Robert Dump]

Doh, I forgot about payroll tax. Payroll and Income both are @40%, corporate around 10%, and the final 10 is comprised of the estate tax, excise taxes and everything else. Color me newly informed.

At the very base of the issue, it is unfair taxation. It is double taxation. But at the same time, I really don't care, I just accept it as it has always been around and always will be around.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Lately you seem to be only concerned with yourself.

I realize people are going to devote the majority of their time to causes that affect them directly but you seem to take it to an entierly new level.

Such base and vapid ethics

Who else is there? I'm all for protecting the wealthiest of the wealthy from the death tax if it keeps them donating cash to the G.O.P.
I just personally don't care about their issue. Why should I? This whole web of "I care about this issue, this issue, this issue" is such a joke. Find your core, vote on your core and let anybody with a good idea try their core issue as long as it isn't too stupid. If you are running for representative elected office then I understand that you need to get the support of constituencies, but we are arguing on the internet and benefit in no way from having our own planks on ideas that we all must realize that we poorly understand. Leave the strong feelings for people who have strong feelings.

Vapid and base ethics. I don't believe in political ethics, just regular ethics and regular ethics don't demand that I care about what wealthy people do with their money after they are dead. Take it from them, give it to their kids, smoke it, blow it out of your chode.

[HoreTore]

At the very base of the issue, it is unfair taxation. It is double taxation.

This is the kind of argumentation that kills our economy. This is a moral objection, and so isn't relevant.

That it's double taxation is a good thing. Taxing something twice is a lot more effective than taking the entire tax in one go.

[Lemur]

[The estate tax] is double taxation.

Depending on how you look at it, you could make this argument for every tax ever levied. The corporation paid its taxes before paying me my salary, so clearly my income tax is double taxation. Moreover, when I buy a stick of gum and pay sales tax, I already paid my state and federal income tax on my salary, so the money in my pocket has already been taxed twice. Clearly the sales tax on the gum is triple taxation. And so on and so forth.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Depending on how you look at it, you could make this argument for every tax ever levied. The corporation paid its taxes before paying me my salary, so clearly my income tax is double taxation. Moreover, when I buy a stick of gum and pay sales tax, I already paid my state and federal income tax on my salary, so the money in my pocket has already been taxed twice. Clearly the sales tax on the gum is triple taxation. And so on and so forth.

I agree with Lemur here and was thinking about the double, triple, quadruple taxation that we already experience. Governments have the ability to tax us, so their tax schemes just need to make sense and encourage growth and the freedom to make your own financial decisions for your personal enjoyment of life. Because people are dead, their wishes to enjoy their lives are nullified. They can give money away to the people they'd like in life, but after they are dead, they've lost their voice (literally).

Give the items to your spouse, gift up to the annual limit to your children every year that you are getting close to doomsday and sell the rest to them for unrealistically low amounts of money. For example, give your kids the annual max, then they can use that money to buy your garage full of cars, boat etc. They've spent bottom dollar and you've evaded taxes, with them only paying sales tax at a fraction of what you'd pay in death.

Sound complicated? Hire an attorney to handle it for you you rich old goober. Thank you for your job creating service, and burn in hell for all of the people you've screwed over to get to the top.